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NHL no longer denying relocation a possibility for the Coyotes?

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01-31-2013, 09:33 PM
  #1
Undertakerqc
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NHL no longer denying relocation a possibility for the Coyotes?

From this news article: http://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/nhl/...c-ontario.html

Will Coyotes franchise be moved if someone other than the league doesn’t own it by end of this season?

“It’s a fair question,” said Daly. “Up to this point the franchise has remained [in Glendale]. We’re closer to executing an alternative [plan] right now than we were five months ago but I’m not going to make any predictions with respect to what happens after this year.”

The wheels are in motion now that Jamison failed to buy the Coyotes.

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01-31-2013, 09:45 PM
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it's simply responsible to have an "alternative plan". The NHL knows what it is and is ready to deploy if its needed, but they will never admit it's needed during a season.

This is a rare slip-up from the league though in publicly admitting that the plan exists.

We eventually learnt that it was the same deal with TNSE. They were the league's "alternative plan" for around two years, and they ended up getting the thrashers, not the coyotes as they expected when the NHL started working seriously with them. What is the alternative plan now? Who knows for sure, but given current arena plans and available markets, it would be wise to speculate it is either Seattle or Quebec.

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01-31-2013, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danishh View Post
it's simply responsible to have an "alternative plan". The NHL knows what it is and is ready to deploy if its needed, but they will never admit it's needed during a season.

This is a rare slip-up from the league though in publicly admitting that the plan exists.

We eventually learnt that it was the same deal with TNSE. They were the league's "alternative plan" for around two years, and they ended up getting the thrashers, not the coyotes as they expected when the NHL started working seriously with them. What is the alternative plan now? Who knows for sure, but given current arena plans and available markets, it would be wise to speculate it is either Seattle or Quebec.
Quebec is the obvious frontrunner. The NHL wont go into Seattle at the same tine has the NBA cause it would get overshadowed badly by the arrival of the NBA. Bad way to start for a new franchise. Levin the potential new owner for the Seattle just said in an article he would prefer an expansion team.


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01-31-2013, 09:59 PM
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All I have to say is finally the NHL. is ready to admit NHL. hockey is a failure in Arizona & are now ready to sell & move them to in my opinion to the highest bider because the NHL, I belive the NHL. has lost so much money trying to keep this team afloat they are going to try to get as much as they can for the coyotes & now the question is where & we can debate till we are blue in the face where they will go & here is a list of cities that can support an NHL. team .

Quebec City
Seattle
Hamilton
Kansas City
Houston
Milwaukee
Portland
Indianapolis

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01-31-2013, 10:14 PM
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Someone clearly has never been to Indianapolis.

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01-31-2013, 10:17 PM
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milwaukee is probably 5th, on that list. quebec is the obvious choice, then seattle and houston as expasion teams. the others would be relocation canididates.

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01-31-2013, 10:17 PM
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Someone clearly has never been to Indianapolis.
Or Hamilton

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01-31-2013, 10:19 PM
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milwaukee is probably 5th, on that list. quebec is the obvious choice, then seattle and houston as expasion teams. the others would be relocation canididates.
Québec and Seattle are the only NHL markets on that list.

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01-31-2013, 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NickWIHockey View Post
milwaukee is probably 5th, on that list. quebec is the obvious choice, then seattle and houston as expasion teams. the others would be relocation canididates.
Seattle is a front-runner, w/ Levin..... Houston's a no-go, even if the Wild pull out, if Alexander's a landlord,Nick, the WNBA Comets were perennial powers in Houston under Alexander's stewardship, but the minute they were sold, and lost those dates in the TC, they were gone within 3 years.

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01-31-2013, 11:04 PM
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Seattle is a front-runner, w/ Levin..... Houston's a no-go, even if the Wild pull out, if Alexander's a landlord,Nick, the WNBA Comets were perennial powers in Houston under Alexander's stewardship, but the minute they were sold, and lost those dates in the TC, they were gone within 3 years.
i dont think minnesota is an issue in houston. Leipold owes everyone for getting him out of nashville and into minnesota. He'll find another place for the aeros of the NHL wants into houston.

Les Alexander is the issue. If he wants a franchise, he can have it. If he doesnt (or cant afford one?), houston is out. It has to be owned by Les to work.

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01-31-2013, 11:12 PM
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i dont think minnesota is an issue in houston. Leipold owes everyone for getting him out of nashville and into minnesota. He'll find another place for the aeros of the NHL wants into houston.

Les Alexander is the issue. If he wants a franchise, he can have it. If he doesnt (or cant afford one?), houston is out. It has to be owned by Les to work.
that's what I said, after Alexander relinquished the Comets, that team was gone within 3 years.

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01-31-2013, 11:27 PM
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Someone clearly has never been to Indianapolis.
Toronto 3 has a better chance of happening than Indianapolis.


Portland and Houston are 100% contingent on their power brokers - Paul Allen and Les Alexander. If those guys want teams, they'll find a way to get one. If they don't...well those places aren't getting teams.

If I had to make a list of markets that I think could host hockey, and doing so only in a short-term window...
1. Quebec City - It's going to happen, be it the Coyotes or expansion. They're building an arena and they will come.
2. Seattle - Tons of money in the city, the demographics fit for the NHL, and the arena is going to be built...it's too attractive of a market for it not to happen.
3. Toronto 2 - Expansion. I'm not crazy about the idea of two teams being so close together...but the precedence has been set and the NHL isn't about to get rid of the Islanders, Devils, or Ducks...also the team will be insanely profitable. I question how much more money the team would bring in overall rather than just relocating funds from the Leafs to another team...but that is one arena that is a guarantee to sell out every night, regardless.
4. Houston - It's in Les Alexander's hands, really. He's shown little interest in an NHL franchise, and I don't think that'll change any time soon...but if it does Houston will have a team.
5. Portland - It's in Paul Allen's hands, really. He's shown absolutely no interest in an NHL franchise since he lost out on the Penguins in 1999 and seems to hold a vendetta against the league, and I don't think that'll change any time soon...but if it does Portland will have a team...and I think they'd be a huge success.
6. Kansas City - They need a solid ownership group for anything to happen, and there isn't one and there isn't any inkling that one will appear any time soon. The Spring Center has been insanely profitable without an anchor tenant, so they're hardly desperate enough to pull a Glendale situation and give a team huge financial breaks to play there. If someone came along and had the pockets to buy a franchise...they'd have the arena right there.
7. Milwaukee - If the Bucks leave they come into play...but as long as the Bucks are there it's too small of a market to hold teams in both leagues with any sort of success.
8. Hamilton - Copps is a dump, the city isn't exactly going through a boom era, they'd have a negative effect on Buffalo, the city isn't properly connected to Toronto...just too many negatives. That and the league will never allow Balsillie anywhere near a franchise. There are just too many negatives working against Hamilton.

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01-31-2013, 11:39 PM
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This is a rare slip-up from the league though in publicly admitting that the plan exists.
...you mean like Dreamland, Area 51, Groom Lake danishh?. Doesnt even appear on US Government issued maps and any information requested through the Freedom of Information Act containing details on its activities is redacted! ....
yet everyone knows it exists. Cant see any harm in Billy's less than entirely candid response to the question. Danced around that one like Fred Astaire on the ceiling.

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02-01-2013, 12:01 AM
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Let's see

Quebec City (new arena planned, have NHL-capable arena already, have the prospective owner, the money. They have everything in place)
Seattle (Not right now, though in a few years yes. New arena being built for NBA primarily though they want to build the capability to host the NHL too. They want a NBA team. Hockey only= no. Hockey can only come 2nd. Not sure all the pieces are in place to pursue a hockey bid yet since they're still trying to get the Sacramento Kings)
Hamilton (Maybe. They'll have to fight Markham for it)
Kansas City (no owner. They seem content with non-sports events)
Houston (potential owner doesn't want a team at this time. Waiting on someone new)
Milwaukee (look around here. There was a thread in the past month discussing hockey in Wisconsin. In short, it's strong elsewhere, but Milwaukee/SE Wisc. is the part of the state least interested in hockey. The geography is just too problematic and Madison is way too small and too into their college team)
Portland (they seem to have no interest in anything except soccer)
Indianapolis (No)

You get points for not even bothering with Las Vegas.


The only real candidates thru the end of the decade in order seem to be:
1.) Quebec City
2.) Seattle
3.) Markham
4.) Houston (capability, desire, but no owner)
5.) Kansas City (capability, no owner, no desire)
6.) Hamilton (if they get more done, they move up the list)

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02-01-2013, 12:13 AM
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If the league was solely interested in profitable franchises then the following three cities-- QC, Hamilton and Markham (in no particular order)

Yes, the Toronto area could support 3 franchises.

PS: I don't think a team in Hamilton would have a negative effect on Buffalo. That's just a lame excuse to keep a team out of Hamilton. A predictable excuse.

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02-01-2013, 12:41 AM
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If the league was solely interested in profitable franchises then the following three cities-- QC, Hamilton and Markham (in no particular order)

Yes, the Toronto area could support 3 franchises.

PS: I don't think a team in Hamilton would have a negative effect on Buffalo. That's just a lame excuse to keep a team out of Hamilton. A predictable excuse.
Quebec City has the most will to get a team back there. Even if the Habs are a no vote, I don't think there's enough will on their part to be a roadblock. Not sure how much blowback they would get if they do that. They're in prime position for the Coyotes. The sooner they can get the team (from their POV) the better. Seattle has their hands tied up with getting the Kings now. The longer the process is drawn out, the more time to seal the Kings end of things and to start looking at the NHL side of things. I still think QC has the best odds, it's just that the odds go down a bit if Seattle can enter the negotiations.


I agree with the idea that there will probably be 2 expansion teams (if they expand) and they probably won't both be Canadian cities considering how much the league considers US markets and the US tv market. Of course, I don't think they'll both be American cities either. There would be public outcry across Canada. Governments will fall, glaciers will crumble, beaver dams will burst, maple syrup would boil. Besides 1 & 1 looks fair from a PR perspective.

Markham. First off, from a balance perspective, GTA2 makes sense. The Maple Leafs have an absurd amount of money over the 2nd richest team, let alone the rest of the NHL. It's even more exaggerated than the Yankees in MLB. Dividing Toronto/Ontario just makes sense, and if Toronto is the hockey capital of North America, it can support 2 teams. There's a lot of money to be made in GTA2 from tv contracts and fostering a competition with the Maple Leafs and perhaps other Canadian cities. Now, the Maple Leafs will try to fight this, but if enough of the heavyweights behind the scenes can see the value in this, the better. Should not the weaker US teams favor this as Markham will likely be a revenue-sharing contributor? Getting the stadium built shifts the odds to their favor. I agree, they should take the Ontario name for wider marketability.

Hamilton. Markham seems to have shifted to the top spot. Hamilton also will face no votes from Toronto & Buffalo and their allies whereas Markham probably won't have much sway on Buffalo.


Based on what I've read, what I think may most likely be is:
Coyotes -> Quebec City
Expansion: Markham, Seattle

Houston is probably a relocation candidate, though beyond the Coyotes, it doesn't look like any are up. Panthers are locked down and desired to be kept in Sunrise more than people think. Predators have a few year buffer at least and they are trying to seed hockey in Tennessee (more then the Coyotes ever did). How's their attendance been so far? Not sure about Blue Jackets profitability though I know they are locked in for a long time, though if the losses pile up enough consecutive years, they might be able to get out of the lease. I'm not familiar enough with the owner/lease conditions to know what possibilities they can leave and how much will/capital the owner has to keep them. Haven't heard anything about the Hurricanes or Lightning. Others may know more.

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02-01-2013, 12:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glacial View Post
Milwaukee (look around here. There was a thread in the past month discussing hockey in Wisconsin. In short, it's strong elsewhere, but Milwaukee/SE Wisc. is the part of the state least interested in hockey. The geography is just too problematic and Madison is way too small and too into their college team)
It may be the part of the state least interested but the Admirals draw well, high school and youth hockey in the area as growing at a good rate and they can still draw from the Madison, Fox Valley and Green Bay areas as well.

I don't even know what the geography is too problematic even means.


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02-01-2013, 12:54 AM
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I'm really surprised Hartford still isn't making any of these relocation lists. I know the NHL has stated it needs a new arena (or major, major renovations), but it'll seat 14,000+ for hockey, and is in a very rich state, with a viable hockey market. I can definitely see it working...

With the list that has (commonly) been posted, we run into the same problems...

Seattle and QC Will get teams, no doubt...
Portland, Houston, Milwaukee are just non-viable markets
Hamilton is a dump with a bad economy
Markham has been put on hold (though the project is still on life support)... I don't expect it to be active much longer

There really isn't any reason the NHL couldn't acquire an owner to foot at least 75% of the bill for renovations and an NHL team for XL Center

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02-01-2013, 01:00 AM
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Because it's not viable?

How much would a Hartford expansion + renovations cost? $400-500M?

Never getting that money back. I don't think it's viable even if it was a lower cost relocation.

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02-01-2013, 01:03 AM
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Hamilton. Markham seems to have shifted to the top spot. Hamilton also will face no votes from Toronto & Buffalo and their allies whereas Markham probably won't have much sway on Buffalo.


Based on what I've read, what I think may most likely be is:
Coyotes -> Quebec City
Expansion: Markham, Seattle
Haven't heard anything about the Hurricanes or Lightning. Others may know more.
Buffalo will block Hamilton...its too close to their market draw. A second team in GTA needs to be up more in the toronto area. Buffalo area goes through St catherines and Wellland and draws fans from Hamilton.

If they are going to go through realignment the preference would be to keep Phoenix out west in Seattle.

there wouldnt be teams in both Portland and Seattle.

Personally I think the islanders should just move. the Brooklyn arena was not designed for Hockey so its seat #s would be the lowest in the league.

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02-01-2013, 01:15 AM
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Because it's not viable?

How much would a Hartford expansion + renovations cost? $400-500M?

Never getting that money back. I don't think it's viable even if it was a lower cost relocation.
Hartford can barely hold on their AHL team.... They will not be in line for an expansion in our lifetime.

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02-01-2013, 01:17 AM
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Hartford can barely hold on their AHL team.... They will not be in line for an expansion in our lifetime.
guess we'll have to wait for unemployment to go back up so it can get done for 50% less :p

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02-01-2013, 01:24 AM
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As much as just about everyone wants 'The Whale' back...it's not happening. Hartford is just not a viable market.

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02-01-2013, 01:25 AM
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Quebec City Hamilton also will face no votes from Toronto & Buffalo and their allies whereas Markham probably won't have much sway on Buffalo.
As has been mentioned here before by others, there's also the possibility that if Hamilton is as lucrative as the NHL's own sources have mentioned during the Coyotes BK court case, then it just might be in Buffalo's best interest to cash in on indemnification, especially if MLSE is averse to another arena in the GTHA that would compete with the ACC for concerts and events.

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02-01-2013, 01:27 AM
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It may be the part of the state least interested but the Admirals draw well, high school and youth hockey in the area as growing at a good rate and they can still draw from the Madison, Fox Valley and Green Bay areas as well.

I don't even know what the geography is too problematic even means.
I think you even posted in that thread.

What I meant by problematic geography is the most populated part of the state is the part of the state least interested in hockey and the most interested in hockey parts of the state have the population too decentralized to build an area outside of Milwaukee's metro area. So, in essence, an arena in Milwaukee may have airs of Glendale or Sunrise only instead of being far from the population center, it isn't, but it would be far from where a hockey fanbase would be. That's what I meant (still would be a logical place to put an arena compared to those two).

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