HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Pittsburgh Penguins
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

current Trade Value: Despres or Niskanen

View Poll Results: more value in a trade?
Despres 34 41.46%
Niskanen 42 51.22%
equal 6 7.32%
Voters: 82. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-01-2013, 01:08 AM
  #51
Tender Rip
Learning from Scuds?
 
Tender Rip's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Shanghai, China
Posts: 12,403
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
He's a top 4 D-man on the pens before the injury, now, and after he comes back. Now if Despres passes him up and only then is he worth more.
Is Beau Bennett worth more or less than Dustin Jeffrey? Right now Jeffrey is an NHL forward. Bennett is an AHL forward....

Just saying this to indicate that your argument is very much incomplete. It depends who is on the buying side what time frame they have as regards ROI.

Tender Rip is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 03:46 AM
  #52
JTG
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Country: Sierra Leone
Posts: 38,754
vCash: 500
It all depends with who is on the other side of the table. I'd personally say that Niskanen has more value right now, as I think he's a middle pairing defenseman, and can probably play pretty solid on the PP (even though we'll never see him do that here).

This thread has horrible timing as Despres is coming off the best game of his young career.

JTG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 06:40 AM
  #53
iamjs
Unregistered User
 
iamjs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: United States
Posts: 8,999
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by No Wingers View Post
I think, like most pens prospects, fans wildly overrate Despres. He used to be untouchable like Malkin and Sid. Now people would likely trade him for Setoguchi. I still think Despres has a tiny bit more value, but it's a toss up. Tough call really.
That's all based on one article, and the author even said there wasn't much behind it.

Bad example IMO.

iamjs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 07:07 AM
  #54
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 14,826
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
He's a top 4 D-man on the pens before the injury, now, and after he comes back. Now if Despres passes him up and only then is he worth more.

One is and one is riding your, if. When he does I'll surely admit it.

It's all the same theory like when Sid went down, and all of a sudden he loses his best in the world tag because of an injury.

Give me a break. Top 4 is top 4. His value won't change, now Despres can escalate his, but he's far less proven, and has yet to prove your point yet. He actually has to put that time in and prove he's a permanent top 4 D-man, and even then Niskanen is still worth more.

One game against a inferior foe at the moment doesn't prove this.

Some one does have a track record in the NHL and in the top 4. You discount his time in Dallas, and he does have 375 games played. Experience. That's between 150 and 200 games in the top 4. Despres has had enough to count on one hand.

Plain and simple, Shero is not getting a proven NHL talent with Despres alone. This thread was made while Niskanen was healthy and it's still true to form now even with the injury. No duh, a GM won't trade for an injured player. Unless he's coming back from some disconfigurement that will keep his ankle from preforming, (meaning he shouldn't be back yet) his value will not change. He has the luxury to prove he's not a top 4 anymore, not that he is one.
Sid had how many years of being a proven player one could consider the best in the game. Nisky hasn't even come close to spending even a year playing consistent top four duty. That is a silly argument and I'm sure you know that.

And you also have another "what if" scenario in your argument as well. You assume Nisky goes back to the top four. If Despres keeps playing well, who does Nisky unseat? Letang? No. Orpik. No. Maybe that bum Martin? Doubt it.

Also you have no clue what a GM is willing to give up right now for Despres, but the point is moot. Right now, currently, doesn't matter when comparing the two. The debate for "currently" stop existing when Nisky got injured.

So the debate about who currently has more value can't really be argued for several weeks until Nisky is back in the lineup and playing well again. Then and ONLY then can we assess their current values together. By then, it's quite possible the whole dynamic has changed.

This argument really doesn't matter anyway, because trading Despres would be stupid.

Mr Jiggyfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 07:40 AM
  #55
SteelFish87*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,275
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
Yah, one game against one messed up team.
he was our best player vs the Islanders

SteelFish87* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 07:55 AM
  #56
Ugene Malkin
Bück Dich Baby!
 
Ugene Malkin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Pittsburgh
Country: Germany
Posts: 21,349
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tender Rip View Post
Is Beau Bennett worth more or less than Dustin Jeffrey? Right now Jeffrey is an NHL forward. Bennett is an AHL forward....

Just saying this to indicate that your argument is very much incomplete. It depends who is on the buying side what time frame they have as regards ROI.
Jeffrey is a poor player to player assessment.

Who's worth more right now out of comparable's to Niskanen and Despres?

Top unit play by Niskanen with, Letang at the time of this thread being made. There isn't one.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JTG View Post
It all depends with who is on the other side of the table. I'd personally say that Niskanen has more value right now, as I think he's a middle pairing defenseman, and can probably play pretty solid on the PP (even though we'll never see him do that here).

This thread has horrible timing as Despres is coming off the best game of his young career.
Thread was made well before this past game. Like three days old.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Sid had how many years of being a proven player one could consider the best in the game. Nisky hasn't even come close to spending even a year playing consistent top four duty. That is a silly argument and I'm sure you know that.

And you also have another "what if" scenario in your argument as well. You assume Nisky goes back to the top four. If Despres keeps playing well, who does Nisky unseat? Letang? No. Orpik. No. Maybe that bum Martin? Doubt it.

Also you have no clue what a GM is willing to give up right now for Despres, but the point is moot. Right now, currently, doesn't matter when comparing the two. The debate for "currently" stop existing when Nisky got injured.

So the debate about who currently has more value can't really be argued for several weeks until Nisky is back in the lineup and playing well again. Then and ONLY then can we assess their current values together. By then, it's quite possible the whole dynamic has changed.

This argument really doesn't matter anyway, because trading Despres would be stupid.
I doubt, highly doubt he holds a top 4 seat, especially the #2 spot, that's just how they roll, the less experienced will ultimately will be forced back down to the #5 spot. Letang couldn't hold that spot his first couple seasons but we expect Despres too?

Not that proven yet, and we all know it.

When this thread was made days ago, Niskanen has had more value.

Niskanen has not played top 4 enough?

Ignorance to the contrary is bliss.

Ugene Malkin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 08:04 AM
  #57
vikingGoalie
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 911
vCash: 500
We would be moron's to trade Despres right now. He's our biggest body on defense and he's using that big body more effectively then Orpik, something that we desperately need come playoff time.

vikingGoalie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 08:11 AM
  #58
wgknestrick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,979
vCash: 500
Depres is showing tons of potential out there. Sure, he is making brutal mistakes in every game, but he is also making incredible plays that offset those mistakes. It is all about being a NET POSITIVE. His recent physical game is what is keeping him in the lineup and he seems to be getting better every game. I can't wait to see where he is at towards the end of the season. There is no way you trade this guy at this point. He has made a believer out of me (who was a big skeptic against him).

I still can't believe that Depres has been scoring at a higher rate than any other Penguin this year at 5v5:

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...+5+17+18+19+20

This will come back down, but it hints at his potential as a solid offensive contributor. He's also leading the team in Corsi as well, which shows his production is probably not a fluke and can be maintained to some extent. He still has a lot to credit to give to Letang (who is probably driving most of these stats for him), but Simon has been solid in his opportunities.

http://www.behindthenet.ca/nhl_stati...52+53+54+55+56

Even if these numbers regress (they will), he is still showing to be capable of driving the play and hopefully a top 4 defender in the near future.

wgknestrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 08:14 AM
  #59
WVP
Registered User
 
WVP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 13,062
vCash: 500
Despres is looking like an impact player all over the ice.

Great skater, an excellent passer, above average physical game and well above average offensive skills. Sloppy as hell though, but hopefully his game refines with experience.

WVP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 08:27 AM
  #60
SteelFish87*
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 4,275
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by wgknestrick View Post
Depres is showing tons of potential out there. Sure, he is making brutal mistakes in every game,
what 'brutal' mistakes did he make in the last 2 games? i didnt see any

he made some mistakes to start the season but they werent that bad

SteelFish87* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 08:53 AM
  #61
WVP
Registered User
 
WVP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Country: United States
Posts: 13,062
vCash: 500
Last night he made a lazy pass to no one behind our net, it was picked off immediately and almost slammed in on a wrap around. Resulted in 20 more seconds of quality Ranger chances.

That was the big one that stood out last night.

WVP is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 09:28 AM
  #62
Mr Jiggyfly
Registered User
 
Mr Jiggyfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 14,826
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
Jeffrey is a poor player to player assessment.

Who's worth more right now out of comparable's to Niskanen and Despres?

Top unit play by Niskanen with, Letang at the time of this thread being made. There isn't one.

Thread was made well before this past game. Like three days old.

I doubt, highly doubt he holds a top 4 seat, especially the #2 spot, that's just how they roll, the less experienced will ultimately will be forced back down to the #5 spot. Letang couldn't hold that spot his first couple seasons but we expect Despres too?

Not that proven yet, and we all know it.

When this thread was made days ago, Niskanen has had more value.

Niskanen has not played top 4 enough?

Ignorance to the contrary is bliss.
You made your post last night admonishing people for not taking into account the "current value"' of Nisky and Despres, so why would you use when the thread was made as some sort of barometer? The original post was obviously thrown out of the window when Nisky went down.

When you made your post, Nisky had zero current value and it made perfect sense for us to speculate about who would have more value by the time a possible trade does happen.

Nisky hasn't proven anymore than Despres he can handle being a #4 for an extended time, let alone a #2.

There are a slew of variables, including how each GM would value both players. One GM may prefer Nisky, while another may prefer Despres.

Trying to say Nisky is a top four guy and is valued higher than Despres by all GMs is such a flawed argument, that it isn't even worth arguing about.

We'll see how things shake out in several weeks and hopefully Shero doesn't move Despres, as I have been saying for months.

Mr Jiggyfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 09:43 AM
  #63
Lim Ran
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,665
vCash: 500
That trade with Dallas was so awesome.

Lim Ran is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 09:53 AM
  #64
wgknestrick
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 1,979
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelFish87 View Post
what 'brutal' mistakes did he make in the last 2 games? i didnt see any

he made some mistakes to start the season but they werent that bad
He is icing the puck quite a bit (which is something that most people don't catch, but is a huge issue- just remember all of Hal Gill's icings), and the turnover listed above was so bad that Errey noted it. His biggest flaws have been in his own zone and turnovers. I am sure the staff is flagging these and reviewing all these things with him as they develop his game.

The good thing is that he seems to be playing well without the puck which IMO more important for a rookie defender than anything. The puck decisions are easier to fix with his talent level. He has the talent to make the right play with the puck, he just needs to do it more often. This will come with repetition as he develops a comfort level with his teammates.

wgknestrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 10:02 AM
  #65
SprootsMasterFlex
Snooki for President
 
SprootsMasterFlex's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,249
vCash: 500
Next season, we'll be talking about how we won't be ableto resign Niskanen to a decent cap-hit since he'd become a UFA @ season's end. Relative to this year, we won't get as much for him. If Despres continues to improve his decision making and consisitently gives a good effort, it will be a no-brainer to trade Niskanen instead (as I stated, considering next year's dilemma).

I really like Niskanen and what he brings to our line-up but we have the young / cheap assets to replace him. Not the case on the wing, especially if Neal goes down with an injury (knock on wood).

SprootsMasterFlex is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 12:57 PM
  #66
KeepitinPitt
Registered User
 
KeepitinPitt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Gibsonia, PA
Country: United States
Posts: 1,035
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to KeepitinPitt Send a message via AIM to KeepitinPitt
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Sid had how many years of being a proven player one could consider the best in the game. Nisky hasn't even come close to spending even a year playing consistent top four duty. That is a silly argument and I'm sure you know that.

And you also have another "what if" scenario in your argument as well. You assume Nisky goes back to the top four. If Despres keeps playing well, who does Nisky unseat? Letang? No. Orpik. No. Maybe that bum Martin? Doubt it.

Also you have no clue what a GM is willing to give up right now for Despres, but the point is moot. Right now, currently, doesn't matter when comparing the two. The debate for "currently" stop existing when Nisky got injured.

So the debate about who currently has more value can't really be argued for several weeks until Nisky is back in the lineup and playing well again. Then and ONLY then can we assess their current values together. By then, it's quite possible the whole dynamic has changed.

This argument really doesn't matter anyway, because trading Despres would be stupid.
I agree 100%. I don't understand why people have been throwing Despres into every trade that has been discussed. He may not have proven himself yet, but he has just about everything the Pens look for in a young defenseman. I don't want to dump him for a guy like Setoguchi, or even Iginla - and this is coming from someone who desperately wants another top 6 winger.

KeepitinPitt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 01:11 PM
  #67
#66
Registered User
 
#66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 10,305
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SteelFish87 View Post
what 'brutal' mistakes did he make in the last 2 games? i didnt see any

he made some mistakes to start the season but they werent that bad
I'm not even that big of a Despres fan but I think his mistake are just that... mistakes. I can live with a player flubbing a pass or falling. Those kinds of things happen to every player. What I hate seeing is give aways and forcing passes through defenders. He was pretty bad with that stuff in the Q but playing with better pro players should help him.

I think he's been pretty good so far. Some rookie mistakes we'll just have to deal with for now. I don't think he's going to be an offensive stud but a big, rangy player kind of like Jovo without the big splashy hits.

#66 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 01:34 PM
  #68
IcedCapp
IcedCapp The White
 
IcedCapp's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 18,640
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeepitinPitt View Post
I agree 100%. I don't understand why people have been throwing Despres into every trade that has been discussed. He may not have proven himself yet, but he has just about everything the Pens look for in a young defenseman. I don't want to dump him for a guy like Setoguchi, or even Iginla - and this is coming from someone who desperately wants another top 6 winger.
that mostly happened before people got to see him play.

IcedCapp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 01:37 PM
  #69
mpp9
Registered User
 
mpp9's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 17,825
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by IcedCapp View Post
that mostly happened before people got to see him play.
He seems alot further along than I expected. Unless he's going for a longterm linemate for Sid, I'd keep him.

mpp9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:08 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.