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Old
02-01-2013, 06:11 AM
  #1026
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Originally Posted by NugentHopkinsfan View Post
Just keep getting points you never know. Winning without Lupul Mccarthur, Gardiner while giving up a softie per game and getting nothing from Kessel... pretty impressive. With good goaltending I think it could be a playoff team, maybe Reimer will be good enough who knows. At least Kadri has been good and Frattin has been huge in the last two games.
I have always stated we would be better with Luongo......i still belive it. We just can't afford the asking price. Most of us are fully prepared to ride the highs and cry in our beers during the lows this year.

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02-01-2013, 06:33 AM
  #1027
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I'm sure this has already been proposed, but I don't remember the responses, but what do Canucks and Leafs fans think of...

Lupul (when healthy)

for

Luongo

?

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Old
02-01-2013, 06:35 AM
  #1028
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Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
LOL, when? Reimer's best season pales in comparison to Schneider's. Reimer was given the #1 reigns last season and fell flat on his face. I guess your retort to this is that after 4 games this season Schneider has had two great games and two poor ones so I guess that's a big enough sample size to conclude he's a poor option as a #1.

Leafs have 7 games of moderate success and all of a sudden they're the best thing since sliced bread to their fans. Unbelievable. Didn't the Leafs have a good first half last season only to completely bomb?
Reimer's best season saw him post a .920 sv% as a total rookie in a 1/2 season as the #1 goaltender. Schneider has NEVER been a #1 goaltender for any appreciable amount of time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ginner classic View Post
Don't need to debate reimer's qualities in this thread. His own GM is looking for an upgrade. Fanboy opinion is moot.
Don't need to debate Schneider's qualities in this thread. His own coach doesn't view him worthy of playing. Fanboy opinion is moot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
I'm a Reimer supporter and after Ovechkins goal tonight, I just shook my head. It's time for Reimer to perform. The injury is gone and Allaire is gone. He just hasn't been anything but avg to below. I missed the 3rd period so I can't comment on that but overall I'm disappointed. Schneider is by far a better goalie as we speak.
Allaire was / is the right coach for Reimer. It's that he has a horrible fit for Gustavsson that caused him to get into a rift with the rest of the organization. No question he needs to be better than he has been so far this year, but not substantially.

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Old
02-01-2013, 06:36 AM
  #1029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
I'm sure this has already been proposed, but I don't remember the responses, but what do Canucks and Leafs fans think of...

Lupul (when healthy)

for

Luongo

?
id pass
lupul is good, and more valuable now that he's signed, but too injury prone...how many games can you count on this guy to play?

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Old
02-01-2013, 06:46 AM
  #1030
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Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
I'm sure this has already been proposed, but I don't remember the responses, but what do Canucks and Leafs fans think of...

Lupul (when healthy)

for

Luongo

?
Nope. Lupul was JUST signed and Vancouver really isn't in a position to trade their #1 goalie.

There's really no deal to be made here anymore. Schneider has to win the job before they can trade Luongo. When you consider yourself a cup contender, there's just no way you can go to your coach and tell him, we just traded your #1 goalie.... but you're still expected to win the cup.

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Old
02-01-2013, 06:47 AM
  #1031
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Nope. Lupul was JUST signed and Vancouver really isn't in a position to trade their #1 goalie.

There's really no deal to be made here anymore. Schneider has to win the job before they can trade Luongo.
i think gillis will be perfectly ok with trading either goalie -- it's just a matter of the right deal coming along. Neither has to prove anything.

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Old
02-01-2013, 06:53 AM
  #1032
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
i think gillis will be perfectly ok with trading either goalie -- it's just a matter of the right deal coming along. Neither has to prove anything.
Not at all. When you're talking about winning a cup, there's absolutely no way to go to your coach, fans, and rest of the team, and say, we've just traded your best goalie, but the expectations are teh same.

Either you keep your best players, or you rebuild.

Right now, Schneider's the guy they can trade... but after failing to win the #1 job yet again, he's not the guy that teams will want as much anymore.

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02-01-2013, 06:59 AM
  #1033
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Not at all. When you're talking about winning a cup, there's absolutely no way to go to your coach, fans, and rest of the team, and say, we've just traded your best goalie, but the expectations are teh same.

Either you keep your best players, or you rebuild.

Right now, Schneider's the guy they can trade... but after failing to win the #1 job yet again, he's not the guy that teams will want as much anymore.
right now ...and then tomorrow its another story, right?


Last edited by spiny norman: 02-01-2013 at 09:59 AM. Reason: nn
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Old
02-01-2013, 07:03 AM
  #1034
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Originally Posted by NYVanfan View Post
right now ...and then tomorrow its another story, right?
Well, if Schneider establishes himself as the #1, then yes, they're in a position to trade Luongo. But, as long as Luongo is the #1, or they flip-flop, they're not in a position to move him.


Last edited by spiny norman: 02-01-2013 at 09:59 AM. Reason: qmep
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Old
02-01-2013, 07:05 AM
  #1035
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Schneider...he's not the guy that teams will want as much anymore.
26 years old
$12M/3 years
Reg. Season: 2.29 GAA, 0.926 SV%
Playoffs: 1.91 GAA, 0.940 SV%

...says you're wrong, homie.

If Schneider was to be traded, immediately after the 2012 playoffs would have yielded a king's ransom.

And I believe Luongo is still the better goalie and that Cory will have an inferior career.

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Old
02-01-2013, 07:08 AM
  #1036
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Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
26 years old
$12M/3 years
Reg. Season: 2.29 GAA, 0.926 SV%
Playoffs: 1.91 GAA, 0.940 SV%

...says you're wrong, homie.

For the record, if Schneider was to be traded, immediately after the 2012 playoffs would have yielded a king's ransom.

And I believe Luongo is still the better goalie and that Cory will have an inferior career.
Teams will undoubtedly want Schneider, but to nowhere near the extent that Canucks fans seem to believe, or what they could've gotten in the offseason. It really comes down to the fact that he's never been a #1 goalie, has a $4m contract, and yet again failed to win the #1 job.

After the 2012 playoffs, Schneider wasn't to be traded. It was Luongo. After winning the starting job back, they've gotta keep Luongo until he loses it.


Last edited by seanlinden: 02-01-2013 at 07:23 AM.
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Old
02-01-2013, 07:44 AM
  #1037
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Teams will undoubtedly want Schneider, but to nowhere near the extent that Canucks fans seem to believe. It really comes down to the fact that he's never been a #1 goalie and has a $4m contract.

After the 2012 playoffs, Schneider wasn't to be traded. It was Luongo. After winning the starting job back, they've gotta keep Luongo until he loses it.
Luongo can post 8 straight shutouts, and if some desperate team drops a Gretzky package on Gillis' desk, Schneider immediately becomes your starter.

Giving Schneider $4M per is MG's way of saying that Cory is a starter, no matter what Luongo does.

MG will take the "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" approach: as long as Vancouver is winning, both goalies remain, but if the team hits a 4+ game rough patch (which is only amplified in a shortened season), one of Roberto or Cory will be traded prematurely, no matter how well both are playing:

Best case scenario for Canucks: both Luongo and Schneider are playing great at the trade deadline, and a contender suffers a brutal injury to its starter or a bubble team, feeling it can pull a "Kings 2012," gets impulsive

Worst case scenario for the Canucks: Vancouver gets bounced in the first round, the goalie with the inferior stats is blamed and his value plummets (and therefore won't be dealt), causing the Canucks to suffer through another Groundhog off-season - same characters in net, same disappointment, same goalie controversy

Expect something in the middle.

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Old
02-01-2013, 08:04 AM
  #1038
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Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
26 years old
$12M/3 years
Reg. Season: 2.29 GAA, 0.926 SV%
Playoffs: 1.91 GAA, 0.940 SV%

...says you're wrong, homie.

If Schneider was to be traded, immediately after the 2012 playoffs would have yielded a king's ransom.

And I believe Luongo is still the better goalie and that Cory will have an inferior career.
i think even the biggest proponent of moving loungo would agree that lou will almost certainly have the better career when everything is said and done.

pretty much the only deterrent on loungo from any team is his contract. people can say all they want that he didnt get it done in the playoffs but there are many players who you can say the same thing about all of which people would want on their team instantly (big joe as an example).

in the end i believe that schneider will be traded. i think his age + contract make him easier to move and will net a better return due to the diminished value of loungo as a result of his contract.

as an example if vancouver was able to move schneider to chicago for patrick sharp and keep loungo in net id say they would be in better shape then moving loungo for a lesser type of player.

i also believe loungo would play better if he didnt have the added pressure of losing his job to schneider.

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Old
02-01-2013, 08:32 AM
  #1039
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Not at all. When you're talking about winning a cup, there's absolutely no way to go to your coach, fans, and rest of the team, and say, we've just traded your best goalie, but the expectations are teh same.

Either you keep your best players, or you rebuild.

Right now, Schneider's the guy they can trade... but after failing to win the #1 job yet again, he's not the guy that teams will want as much anymore.
Ahhahahahaha. You think Schneider isn't as valuable now because him and Luongo are splitting starts? There is no number 1, as much as you would like there to be one. We have a 1A and 1A situation, and this week Luongo has the hot hand. Schneider had a bad first gamer but he's looked great his last three starts. You're crazy if you think anything that's happened in Vancouver so far this year has altered the value of either goalie.

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Old
02-01-2013, 08:44 AM
  #1040
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Originally Posted by Ag925 View Post
26 years old
$12M/3 years
Reg. Season: 2.29 GAA, 0.926 SV%
Playoffs: 1.91 GAA, 0.940 SV%

...says you're wrong, homie.

If Schneider was to be traded, immediately after the 2012 playoffs would have yielded a king's ransom.

And I believe Luongo is still the better goalie and that Cory will have an inferior career.
I'm jumping in late here....what's this all about? Schnieder is a great young goalie...what's the dispute?

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Old
02-01-2013, 08:48 AM
  #1041
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Ahhahahahaha. You think Schneider isn't as valuable now because him and Luongo are splitting starts? There is no number 1, as much as you would like there to be one. We have a 1A and 1A situation, and this week Luongo has the hot hand. Schneider had a bad first gamer but he's looked great his last three starts. You're crazy if you think anything that's happened in Vancouver so far this year has altered the value of either goalie.
The longer Lou holds the #1 job, and there is only ever one #1 don't kid youself, the worse this could play out long term. If it goes into yet another season, it becomes even worse, IMO. Athletes while spoiled are proud people, and eventually one will want to play and let it be known publically. Once this happens it does unfortunately lower said players value. I am not saying that puts them in a bad situation this season, but if it happens next season because Gillis doen't find a trade he likes Schneider with only one year left is not as valueable as he is now.

*note* i am not in anyway saying schneider is a bad goalie, lol

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Old
02-01-2013, 08:51 AM
  #1042
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Originally Posted by doorman View Post
The longer Lou holds the #1 job, and there is only ever one #1 don't kid youself, the worse this could play out long term. If it goes into yet another season, it becomes even worse, IMO. Athletes while spoiled are proud people, and eventually one will want to play and let it be known publically. Once this happens it does unfortunately lower said players value. I am not saying that puts them in a bad situation this season, but if it happens next season because Gillis doen't find a trade he likes Schneider with only one year left is not as valueable as he is now.
The thing is this (as stated by numerous Nuck's fans), if they are not being offered anything, they might as well ride the 1A/1A goalie situation they have. Even if they keep Luongo all year, they can definately move him for the peanuts offers (if they want to) in the offseason.

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Old
02-01-2013, 08:58 AM
  #1043
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
The thing is this (as stated by numerous Nuck's fans), if they are not being offered anything, they might as well ride the 1A/1A goalie situation they have. Even if they keep Luongo all year, they can definately move him for the peanuts offers (if they want to) in the offseason.
They'll get more than peanuts.

I think teams will be more willing to part with pieces after this season. I think a lot of teams are using this 48 games season to see what they have.

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Old
02-01-2013, 09:00 AM
  #1044
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
You won't find very many Leaf fans who think we are playoff caliber, myself included. You won't find many "sane" Leaf fans that think Reimer is better than either Schnieder or Luongo; myself included. We are just happy to see the kids performing well and getting a few wins, not sure why that makes us wrong. We don't need excuses....we know what our team is.


Thank you for that bold statement.


You're not wrong for wanting your team to do well, every fan does. It's when the established logic starts to fly out the window (not you, others), that's when this thread devolves. Some people have been _proven_ wrong again and again here and still keep going on. Now they're just being viewed as a farce or not "sane".


@bobbyt911 - I saw Burke getting fired. Not as soon, but by no longer than the end of the season. Even got a few people on the record saying that he wouldn't get fired, despite the losing record. But those people have long since vacated the thread... The point is, some people are getting proven wrong over and over again, and in big ways, yet still profess to know what's going to happen next. Let's just wait and see what happens instead of prognosticating all the time, in a black and white type fashion, making your insight seem highly suspect as a result.


Right now, the Canucks have two world class goaltenders that are likely to ride the season out with the team. The offseason when Luongo likely moves. It's a good thing we have NHL hockey to watch in the meantime.

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02-01-2013, 09:05 AM
  #1045
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@bobbyt911 - I saw Burke getting fired. Not as soon, but by no longer than the end of the season. Even got a few people on the record saying that he wouldn't get fired, despite the losing record. But those people have long since vacated the thread... The point is, some people are getting proven wrong over and over again, and in big ways, yet still profess to know what's going to happen next. Let's just wait and see what happens instead of prognosticating all the time, in a black and white type fashion, making your insight seem highly suspect as a result.
Burke could have 100% been fire because of the team record but that's not the case, if it was Nonis wouldn't currently be the GM.

He had a a someone public personal sitaution happening and was rumoured to be fired at the draft last year. New ownership came in, didn't approve and pulled the trigger. IMO.

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02-01-2013, 09:11 AM
  #1046
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Originally Posted by StringerBell View Post
Ahhahahahaha. You think Schneider isn't as valuable now because him and Luongo are splitting starts? There is no number 1, as much as you would like there to be one. We have a 1A and 1A situation, and this week Luongo has the hot hand. Schneider had a bad first gamer but he's looked great his last three starts. You're crazy if you think anything that's happened in Vancouver so far this year has altered the value of either goalie.


The incredulity in your post is amusing. I like the way you have put things here. No matter how hard _some_ people try to handicap this to the delight of their own mind, the guy that gets paid to run a team has chosen to ride both goalies.


This is an unprecedented situation, unless you go back to Halak/Price as a situation where there were two #1s of this _calibre_. People trying reason it here is just interesting.



Quote:
Originally Posted by doorman View Post
The longer Lou holds the #1 job, and there is only ever one #1 don't kid youself, the worse this could play out long term. If it goes into yet another season, it becomes even worse, IMO. Athletes while spoiled are proud people, and eventually one will want to play and let it be known publically. Once this happens it does unfortunately lower said players value. I am not saying that puts them in a bad situation this season, but if it happens next season because Gillis doen't find a trade he likes Schneider with only one year left is not as valueable as he is now.

*note* i am not in anyway saying schneider is a bad goalie, lol


Neil Smith, former GM of the rangers, said that the reason this works in VAN is because of Schneider's personality. He's got his head on straight. That's why he's not flying off the handle with Luongo taking the crease. The same thing will happen when he gets a few games and Luongo's demeanor won't allow him to resent Schneider. It's why this works. These two guys are professionals and like each other. If they didn't, you would see more fireworks.


And no, it doesn't lower value, no matter how much you want to believe it. A team with non-elite goaltending is always going to value what it doesn't have. Those guys determine value, not the current position each goalie plays on the team.


Finally, this won't last past this offseason. It will be resolved then because the Canucks have to maneuver under the 64.3m cap.

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Old
02-01-2013, 09:13 AM
  #1047
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Originally Posted by Liferleafer View Post
The thing is this (as stated by numerous Nuck's fans), if they are not being offered anything, they might as well ride the 1A/1A goalie situation they have. Even if they keep Luongo all year, they can definately move him for the peanuts offers (if they want to) in the offseason.
See that isn't what i said, lol. What i said is while it may work for this season there is only ever one #1 and eventually one of them will want to be the one. Short term it is fine long term it could be a disaster. If one of them publically demands a trade and lets just say that part way through next season it is Schneider, then with only a year left on his deal he is less valueable. I am not debating his talent, i am pointing that teams will pay less, IMO, for only a season and a bit of guaranteed service. Some will argue and that's fine, but put yourself NOT in Gillis' shoes as the other GM, would you pay full price? Now Gillis is right to want to get the best deal can as this is not a slight at him either, i am just simply pointing out that the wheel will eventually fall off, IMO.

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02-01-2013, 09:13 AM
  #1048
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They'll get more than peanuts.

I think teams will be more willing to part with pieces after this season. I think a lot of teams are using this 48 games season to see what they have.
I agree 100%. I was only using the "peanuts" reference in response to those that think he would get bought out/waived.

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02-01-2013, 09:14 AM
  #1049
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Burke could have 100% been fire because of the team record but that's not the case, if it was Nonis wouldn't currently be the GM.

He had a a someone public personal sitaution happening and was rumoured to be fired at the draft last year. New ownership came in, didn't approve and pulled the trigger. IMO.

He was fired for a multitude of reasons, like these things usually are. It's his personality, record, possibly Luongo (timing), and more stuff we don't know about behind the scenes.


Anselmi cited the record as a factor in his firing on the McCowan show, but just one of many factors.

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02-01-2013, 09:17 AM
  #1050
Liferleafer
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See that isn't what i said, lol. What i said is while it may work for this season there is only ever one #1 and eventually one of them will want to be the one. Short term it is fine long term it could be a disaster. If one of them publically demands a trade and lets just say that part way through next season it is Schneider, then with only a year left on his deal he is less valueable. I am not debating his talent, i am pointing that teams will pay less, IMO, for only a season and a bit of guaranteed service. Some will argue and that's fine, but put yourself NOT in Gillis' shoes as the other GM, would you pay full price? Now Gillis is right to want to get the best deal can as this is not a slight at him either, i am just simply pointing out that the wheel will eventually fall off, IMO.
This is just my opinion, unless Schnieder has a collasal turn around (doubtful), then no matter what or when...Luongo is the guy who is out. I think Luongo has a major chip on his shoulder right now and is working very hard to show that he is still a bonified starter, which is a good thing. I also think he understands the future but is willing to take his run this year with Vancouver.

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