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Old
01-31-2013, 06:16 PM
  #651
TaLoN
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Though, because Granlund finally managed to create a little space for himself in the offensive zone, they not only outscored the top line vs the Hawks, but they out chanced and outshot them as well.

Granlund's game in the offensive zone was a big improvement, He was still a bit weak in the defensive zone, but not nearly as much as the previous 3 games. Yeo said himself he didn't worry about him defensively at the end of the game and he even saved a goal in OT.

It was progress, and I think time will only show more progress. He is absolutely an NHL talent. A full training camp and pre-season would have benefited him more than anyone. Unfortunately he has to do all his adapting in games that matter instead.

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Old
01-31-2013, 06:25 PM
  #652
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Originally Posted by TaLoN View Post
Though, because Granlund finally managed to create a little space for himself in the offensive zone, they not only outscored the top line vs the Hawks, but they out chanced and outshot them as well.

Granlund's game in the offensive zone was a big improvement, He was still a bit weak in the defensive zone, but not nearly as much as the previous 3 games. Yeo said himself he didn't worry about him defensively at the end of the game and he even saved a goal in OT.

It was progress, and I think time will only show more progress. He is absolutely an NHL talent. A full training camp and pre-season would have benefited him more than anyone. Unfortunately he has to do all his adapting in games that matter instead.
Spot on.

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Old
01-31-2013, 10:20 PM
  #653
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Look what happens when a prospect can't hide anymore under the veil of a lesser league and thousands of miles of distance. Lots of excuses.

I always considered Granlund a safe pick. I never handed him an astronomical ceiling like best prospect in the NHL, but I was pretty certain he'd be a top-6 player. That's changed for me. For the first time he's showing the real potential to be a bust. Granlund wasn't a long-term project. He was a great player on draft day. His weaknesses were in skating and size/strength, and as he's advanced in leagues, those weaknesses became more and more of a problem. In the AHL his lack of size/strength was showing through. Now in the NHL, his so-so skating is added to that. And unfortunately, those are things are not easily learned. If they were, we'd have seen improvement since June 2010. But we haven't. And let's be honest, how many 5-10 centers in this league are brawlers that are great players because they are stronger down low than the opponent? There's none that I can think of. The great little guys beat you with speed and quickness. Do you honestly expect Granlund to join the speed crowd?

Don't blame his linemates. Centers are the key to a line, and Granlund has been the weakest link on the 2nd line. It's all starts in your own zone. MiG has been a mess: bad turnovers, losing puck battles, playing half the time without a stick. The puck isn't moving in the right direction. You can't score when you're in your own zone.Then you get the neutral/offensive zone. Granlund has shown to be too slow to carry the puck away from defenders and too weak to win battles along the boards with defenders. His wingers have had to skate the puck up ice and win the scrums along the boards. If they don't, the line fails. Granny's flat-out been a liability except for certain situations when he has time and space to make plays with his excellent vision and passing. That doesn't happen often in this league. Unless Granlund shows the ability to create those situations for himself and his team, he might not be an NHL player for long. He's no 3rd-line checker.

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01-31-2013, 10:34 PM
  #654
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Quote:
Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
Look what happens when a prospect can't hide anymore under the veil of a lesser league and thousands of miles of distance. Lots of excuses.

I always considered Granlund a safe pick. I never handed him an astronomical ceiling like best prospect in the NHL, but I was pretty certain he'd be a top-6 player. That's changed for me. For the first time he's showing the real potential to be a bust. Granlund wasn't a long-term project. He was a great player on draft day. His weaknesses were in skating and size/strength, and as he's advanced in leagues, those weaknesses became more and more of a problem. In the AHL his lack of size/strength was showing through. Now in the NHL, his so-so skating is added to that. And unfortunately, those are things are not easily learned. If they were, we'd have seen improvement since June 2010. But we haven't. And let's be honest, how many 5-10 centers in this league are brawlers that are great players because they are stronger down low than the opponent? There's none that I can think of. The great little guys beat you with speed and quickness. Do you honestly expect Granlund to join the speed crowd?

Don't blame his linemates. Centers are the key to a line, and Granlund has been the weakest link on the 2nd line. It's all starts in your own zone. MiG has been a mess: bad turnovers, losing puck battles, playing half the time without a stick. The puck isn't moving in the right direction. You can't score when you're in your own zone.Then you get the neutral/offensive zone. Granlund has shown to be too slow to carry the puck away from defenders and too weak to win battles along the boards with defenders. His wingers have had to skate the puck up ice and win the scrums along the boards. If they don't, the line fails. Granny's flat-out been a liability except for certain situations when he has time and space to make plays with his excellent vision and passing. That doesn't happen often in this league. Unless Granlund shows the ability to create those situations for himself and his team, he won't make it long-term in this league.
That's a pretty negative take on the subject, but I agree with you on the fundamentals.

As quite a few members, among them myself, have stated previously, Granlund's game relies heavily on his ability to slow the play down. That's likely due to his lack of pure speed or mobility despite his size, and it was also the reason why he was able to adapt to FEL so quickly. However, he can't do that in NHL, and he couldn't do it in AHL, either. His primary weapon has been stolen from him, and while he still has his elite offensive vision and passing, he first needs to get in position to actually use them.

I'm not worried though, he's still green and still young. Who knows, maybe he'll spark up against the Ducks and show why the organization and the fans are so high on him. He has potential to be a truly special player. However, that road may be bumpier than most of us anticipated.

I think it's safe to say that we are both hoping he pulls it off.

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Old
01-31-2013, 11:40 PM
  #655
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That's a pretty negative take on the subject
How surprising

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Old
02-01-2013, 12:04 AM
  #656
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Look what happens when a prospect can't hide anymore under the veil of a lesser league and thousands of miles of distance. Lots of excuses.

I always considered Granlund a safe pick. I never handed him an astronomical ceiling like best prospect in the NHL, but I was pretty certain he'd be a top-6 player. That's changed for me. For the first time he's showing the real potential to be a bust. Granlund wasn't a long-term project. He was a great player on draft day. His weaknesses were in skating and size/strength, and as he's advanced in leagues, those weaknesses became more and more of a problem. In the AHL his lack of size/strength was showing through. Now in the NHL, his so-so skating is added to that. And unfortunately, those are things are not easily learned. If they were, we'd have seen improvement since June 2010. But we haven't. And let's be honest, how many 5-10 centers in this league are brawlers that are great players because they are stronger down low than the opponent? There's none that I can think of. The great little guys beat you with speed and quickness. Do you honestly expect Granlund to join the speed crowd?

Don't blame his linemates. Centers are the key to a line, and Granlund has been the weakest link on the 2nd line. It's all starts in your own zone. MiG has been a mess: bad turnovers, losing puck battles, playing half the time without a stick. The puck isn't moving in the right direction. You can't score when you're in your own zone.Then you get the neutral/offensive zone. Granlund has shown to be too slow to carry the puck away from defenders and too weak to win battles along the boards with defenders. His wingers have had to skate the puck up ice and win the scrums along the boards. If they don't, the line fails. Granny's flat-out been a liability except for certain situations when he has time and space to make plays with his excellent vision and passing. That doesn't happen often in this league. Unless Granlund shows the ability to create those situations for himself and his team, he might not be an NHL player for long. He's no 3rd-line checker.
Granlund is a loooooooooooooooooonnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnngggggg gggggggggg way from busting. He is 7 games into his NHL career. If this were an 82 game season the drama around these parts would be cut by half. Sure he isn't the fastest guy in the league and he has got the crap kicked out of him a couple of times this year but if he fixes some of his mental problems he will look a ton better. His development has always been erratic and I dont expect that will change much. The kid will be fine if we can all take a few steps back and let him grow into the role. It feels much more pressing because its such a short and dramatic season. Just give the kid a chance. Hell if he wouldn't have dropped his stick 12 times last game he would have look much better.

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02-01-2013, 12:15 AM
  #657
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Lol at the overreactions. Typical knee-jerk reactions. He's been up and down in every game this year, but when it comes down too it hes 20 and has 3 points in 7 games and is Even. That's basically 20 points projected. Not terrible for a guy who's size/skillset tend to foreshadow a transition period into the next level. No training camp/preseason/injury in the AHL + line mates that don't fit perfect + defensive responsibilities + being a 20 yr old rookie = The kind of play you are seeing. I don't really care if he gets knocked down a lot as long as he is willing to keep going to those areas. The games a bit fast for him right now, but he's dominated every level for a reason. Hockey is hockey no matter where you play it.


Give him time. It may not even happen this season, but hel eventually work into being a good player. Loving all the knee-jerk bust posts and people saying the sky is falling or he is our savior based on each shift and stuff. HFboards ftw.

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02-01-2013, 12:21 AM
  #658
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Originally Posted by TwInS1095 View Post
Lol at the overreactions. Typical knee-jerk reactions. He's been up and down in every game this year, but when it comes down too it hes 20 and has 3 points in 7 games and is Even. That's basically 20 points projected. Not terrible for a guy who's size/skillset tend to foreshadow a transition period into the next level. No training camp/preseason/injury in the AHL + line mates that don't fit perfect + defensive responsibilities + being a 20 yr old rookie = The kind of play you are seeing. I don't really care if he gets knocked down a lot as long as he is willing to keep going to those areas. The games a bit fast for him right now, but he's dominated every level for a reason. Hockey is hockey no matter where you play it.


Give him time. It may not even happen this season, but hel eventually work into being a good player. Loving all the knee-jerk bust posts and people saying the sky is falling or he is our savior based on each shift and stuff. HFboards ftw.
This is not unique to HF boards... this is a Minnesota fan reaction... period.

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02-01-2013, 01:13 AM
  #659
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Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
Look what happens when a prospect can't hide anymore under the veil of a lesser league and thousands of miles of distance. Lots of excuses.

I always considered Granlund a safe pick. I never handed him an astronomical ceiling like best prospect in the NHL, but I was pretty certain he'd be a top-6 player. That's changed for me. For the first time he's showing the real potential to be a bust. Granlund wasn't a long-term project. He was a great player on draft day. His weaknesses were in skating and size/strength, and as he's advanced in leagues, those weaknesses became more and more of a problem. In the AHL his lack of size/strength was showing through. Now in the NHL, his so-so skating is added to that. And unfortunately, those are things are not easily learned. If they were, we'd have seen improvement since June 2010. But we haven't. And let's be honest, how many 5-10 centers in this league are brawlers that are great players because they are stronger down low than the opponent? There's none that I can think of. The great little guys beat you with speed and quickness. Do you honestly expect Granlund to join the speed crowd?

Don't blame his linemates. Centers are the key to a line, and Granlund has been the weakest link on the 2nd line. It's all starts in your own zone. MiG has been a mess: bad turnovers, losing puck battles, playing half the time without a stick. The puck isn't moving in the right direction. You can't score when you're in your own zone.Then you get the neutral/offensive zone. Granlund has shown to be too slow to carry the puck away from defenders and too weak to win battles along the boards with defenders. His wingers have had to skate the puck up ice and win the scrums along the boards. If they don't, the line fails. Granny's flat-out been a liability except for certain situations when he has time and space to make plays with his excellent vision and passing. That doesn't happen often in this league. Unless Granlund shows the ability to create those situations for himself and his team, he might not be an NHL player for long. He's no 3rd-line checker.

Straight knee-jerk rxn to 7 games of play by a rookie?

He was hailed as the highest IQ player out of that draft. He sees the play before it happens. Well, play happens a lot faster in the NHL because of the size of the rink and size/speed of the players. We will find out just how cerebral MiG is. Those players adapt and find success. One thing your right about is speed is not something that can just be changed in an offseason. Speed relies on pure motor function which are learned habits, and it also relies on strength. The latter is much easier changed. Granlund isn't far off from being able to skate at NHL standard speed. Not fast, not slow, just regular. Give him that time to train and it will be fine. The biggest thing he needs is to strengthen his core and legs. With strength in that area hockey players can fend off defensemen and play in the corners much better. Those are all things that can be changed, and changed in a relatively short amount of time. He needs time in the NHL to let his mind adapt to the incoming sensory modalities, process them, and make the best decision. That's another positive- brains' adapt very well with training. So, next year, a stronger, faster, and cerebrally more adapted Granlund will play with this team again. I daresay he will be much, much better.

Again, he is 7 games into the NHL. THE NHL. He lacks attributes that CAN be changed. Skating technique is the hardest of all to change and many players never do. But speed based on improved strength and motor endplate recruitment patters is not hard to change. And mentally, all that takes is time, experience, and dedication.

Granlund may never be a the best player on a top line player, but he is top 6 material. It just needs to be molded the fit the NHL cast.

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02-01-2013, 01:18 AM
  #660
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TwInS1095 View Post
Lol at the overreactions. Typical knee-jerk reactions. He's been up and down in every game this year, but when it comes down too it hes 20 and has 3 points in 7 games and is Even. That's basically 20 points projected. Not terrible for a guy who's size/skillset tend to foreshadow a transition period into the next level. No training camp/preseason/injury in the AHL + line mates that don't fit perfect + defensive responsibilities + being a 20 yr old rookie = The kind of play you are seeing. I don't really care if he gets knocked down a lot as long as he is willing to keep going to those areas. The games a bit fast for him right now, but he's dominated every level for a reason. Hockey is hockey no matter where you play it.


Give him time. It may not even happen this season, but hel eventually work into being a good player. Loving all the knee-jerk bust posts and people saying the sky is falling or he is our savior based on each shift and stuff. HFboards ftw.
It's almost like 20 year old rookies aren't allowed to have ups and downs anymore.

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02-01-2013, 03:46 AM
  #661
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When people say that Granlund is a smart player, they don't mean just his hockey vision. During his career he's always recognized his weaknesses and fixed them, one by one. Just a couple of years ago his shot was plain bad and his skating was much worse than today, he couldn't play center in the FEL and so on. When asked about those things, he could analyze himself as a player and we could see him improving in those areas that needed improving.

It's obvious that he's faced some challenges in the big league. I don't think he realized just how fast and physical the game would be. He had his first taste of the NHL in a regular season game... And it's only 48 games so it's a kind of playoffs for every team. It makes it a tad harder.

However, I have zero doubt in my mind that he knows where his difficulties lie and he will improve those weaknesses. Just like he's done so far during his short career.

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02-01-2013, 05:27 AM
  #662
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Young skilled guys typically take a little longer to adjust, Granlund will be fine. Stamkos, Hodgson, Turris, Kadri, etc etc get it, but have to learn the pro game.

Thats why I get confused on this board that we are so quick to give up on guys so early in career--patience is key here !

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02-01-2013, 06:06 AM
  #663
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7 games is way way too soon to be throwing the word bust around.

It took us 3 seasons to realize James Sheppard was a bust.. let's give Granlund the benefit of the doubt here.

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02-01-2013, 08:29 AM
  #664
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I'm not ready to label him a bust, but sadly, SoH's evaluation of MG is very accurate. In order to succeed in this league as a smaller player, you have to be either very quick, or be built like a little tank and impossible to knock over due to low center of gravity. Granny is neither of those things right now. He is not quick enough or strong enough, and that's why he is struggling so much to adapt. It's not likely that he will get any faster, so he has to get stronger, and learn how to use his smaller frame effectively. If he does, he'll be just fine. If not, well... he could very well become the "b" word. Let's give him a couple of seasons though, before we throw him to the wolves.

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02-01-2013, 09:13 AM
  #665
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I'm not ready to label him a bust, but sadly, SoH's evaluation of MG is very accurate. In order to succeed in this league as a smaller player, you have to be either very quick, or be built like a little tank and impossible to knock over due to low center of gravity. Granny is neither of those things right now. He is not quick enough or strong enough, and that's why he is struggling so much to adapt. It's not likely that he will get any faster, so he has to get stronger, and learn how to use his smaller frame effectively. If he does, he'll be just fine. If not, well... he could very well become the "b" word. Let's give him a couple of seasons though, before we throw him to the wolves.

I completely disagree...I don't think any of his issues have to do with either a lack of speed or quicknesses...He's NHL-calibre in both of those areas, IMO, he is just going through a period of adjustment and I'll think he'll be fine.


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02-01-2013, 09:34 AM
  #666
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One or two posters saying Granlund is a bust or disappointment doesn't indict the overwhelming majority of posters who are more than willing to let him play for a couple years and see how he looks.

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02-01-2013, 09:45 AM
  #667
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I completely disagree...I don't think any of his issues have to do with either a lack of speed or quicknesses...He's NHL-calibre in both of those areas, IMO, he is just going through a period of adjustment and I'll think he'll be fine.
NHL-caliber, yes, but I would say only about average. Not enough to compensate for lack of size or physical strength, in my opinion.

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02-01-2013, 09:55 AM
  #668
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NHL-caliber, yes, but I would say only about average. Not enough to compensate for lack of size or physical strength, in my opinion.
He's about 180 lbs....it's not as if he is a puny weakling.

Let's give the kid a little time. He's had no preseason to develop any chemistry with his linemates, and the jump from the AHL to the NHL is massive. 7 games in, he has 3 points. Over an 82 game season, that translates to a little more than 35 points. About what most Wild fans expected.

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02-01-2013, 10:55 AM
  #669
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I'm not ready to label him a bust, but sadly, SoH's evaluation of MG is very accurate. In order to succeed in this league as a smaller player, you have to be either very quick, or be built like a little tank and impossible to knock over due to low center of gravity. Granny is neither of those things right now.
What about Saku Koivu?

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02-01-2013, 11:25 AM
  #670
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I didn't follow the NHL when Saku was starting out in the league... Did he start at center or was he started at wing?

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02-01-2013, 11:26 AM
  #671
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I didn't follow the NHL when Saku was starting out in the league... Did he start at center or was he started at wing?
Can't remember, but he was much faster than Granlund is now.

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02-01-2013, 11:35 AM
  #672
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how long did it take Mikko to look good?

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02-01-2013, 11:40 AM
  #673
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how long did it take Mikko to look good?
Don't recall exactly....but my guess is that it took more than 7 games.

EDIT: Let's use Mikko and Parise as comparibles their rookie season.

Note: Mikko played 64 games his rookie season and Parise played 81. I've extrapolated their #'s for an 82 game season and what Granlund is on pace for (if this were a full 82 game schedule):

Granlund: 12 goals 24 assists
Koivu: 8 goals 20 assists
Parise: 14 goals 18 assits


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02-01-2013, 11:57 AM
  #674
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Jan 9, 2009: #1 draft pick takes a seat:

Quote:
Steven Stamkos, the top pick in last June's entry draft, was a healthy scratch from the Tampa Bay Lightning's lineup Friday against the Ducks, and somewhere, Barry Melrose is laughing.

When Melrose was fired by the Lightning after coaching only 16 games, he said that one big point of contention was Stamkos' readiness for the NHL. He didn't think the kid was ready and said he was pressured to play Stamkos because he was a potential drawing card.

Well, it now seems that the team's coaching staff, led by Coach Rick Tocchet, has decided that the 6-1, 180-pound center needs to bulk up before he can be effective against some of the muscular defensemen in the NHL. Stamkos has been put on a weight-training program that will take precedence over playing, and he was held out of Friday's game.

Stamkos has four goals and 14 points and a minus-11 plus/minus rating in 40 games.

He's scheduled to play against the Kings on Monday at Staples Center, which should be interesting because the No. 2 overall pick, defenseman Drew Doughty, has had remarkable success so far. Which leads to the question: Did the Kings really win when they lost the lottery for the No. 1 pick?

Seems that way so far, though Stamkos has talent and isn't likely to be a total bust.

-- Helene Elliott

March 20, 2010: After slow start, young star emerges

Quote:
After being drafted first overall in 2008, Stamkos made the leap from junior hockey in Ontario to the NHL. But he struggled to earn playing time under then-coach Barry Melrose, who felt the center's body and defensive game weren't ready for the big leagues. A month into that season, a headline in the St. Petersburg Times asked, "Where's Stamkos?" a play on the "Seen Stamkos?" marketing slogan.

After Tampa Bay fired Melrose only 16 games into his first season, the team took a different approach with Stamkos, whom many within the organization considered to be key to stabilizing a franchise struggling on the ice and in turmoil off it. Rick Tocchet replaced Melrose and put Stamkos on a strength-training program. He scratched Stamkos on three occasions, each time asking him to watch from the press box with a notebook and pen in hand. Stamkos also attended regular video sessions with an assistant coach.

"That's when it hit home," Stamkos said. "I started to doubt myself a little bit, and my self-confidence wasn't there. I knew that if I wanted to keep playing, I had to play so well that the coaches couldn't take me out of the lineup."

Stamkos, the Tampa Bay Lightning's sublime sophomore, is having an Ovechkin-like offensive campaign, and Coach Bruce Boudreau knows the Capitals' success -- or failure -- to contain him could determine the outcome of Saturday night's game at St. Pete Times Forum.

"He's definitely the real deal," Boudreau said. "He's going to threaten Alex Ovechkin and Sidney Crosby and Nick Backstrom for scoring titles down the line."

That time could arrive sooner rather than later for Stamkos. With a rare combination of speed, playmaking savvy and a devastatingly accurate one-timer, he entered Friday's games with 42 goals, which ranked behind only Crosby's 45 and Ovechkin's 44. Meanwhile, his 82 points ranks fifth, 14 behind Ovechkin's league-leading total.

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02-01-2013, 12:08 PM
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Omg - Granlund isnt doing exactly what he did for IFK. Abandon ship!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !

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