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Hawks fall to Wild in Shootout (3-2)

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01-31-2013, 06:01 PM
  #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Sharp and Bolland aren't great PKers anyway.
Literally the wrongest thing ever said in the history of man.

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01-31-2013, 06:07 PM
  #102
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Literally the wrongest thing ever said in the history of man.
I'm off it today. Missed that one of the first time around, too. Some crazy-talk going on here today.

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01-31-2013, 06:10 PM
  #103
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Literally the wrongest thing ever said in the history of man.
They're OK, but not great. Our PK was terrible with them, and Bolland loses a lot of faceoffs.

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01-31-2013, 06:10 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
He gave the puck away more than twice, makes the least of his chances, and took a terrible penalty. He's terrible.
are we talking about sharp? dude was brutal last night. he killed that line everytime he touched the puck.

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01-31-2013, 06:11 PM
  #105
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are we talking about sharp? dude was brutal last night. he killed that line everytime he touched the puck.
If Sharp took a penalty, you could put his name in there and it would be accurate.

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01-31-2013, 06:16 PM
  #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
They're OK, but not great. Our PK was terrible with them, and Bolland loses a lot of faceoffs.
Bolland is the best PK guy on the team outside of Toews and Hossa

See: 2010 Playoffs

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01-31-2013, 07:02 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by MTP View Post
Bolland is the best PK guy on the team outside of Toews and Hossa

See: 2010 Playoffs
Good shorthanded threat, sure, but when I've watched him (notably on last year's brutal PK) his positioning didn't seem particularly consistent and he appeared lazy at times. You don't see that with Frolik and Kruger, both guys go all out while they're PKing and work together pretty much seamlessly.

That said, I still hate the passive box the team uses and I think it's going to get burned soon. But I'd love to be wrong.

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01-31-2013, 10:54 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by BronYrAur View Post
The R-squared value of the correlation between PK% and pts from last year's data is 0.146. Would take more work to incorporate more data.
That's a really low number, close to noise considering it's just one year with 30 (n) teams. Special teams % jumps around a lot from year to year for teams for no obvious, or at least predictable reason.

Shot diff or Corsi plus SV% probably explain 90%+ of pts in regression. No new insight there, that's just explaining what we see in the real world and the standings. Dig any deeper with team stats (FO%, hits, ST%) in search of some magic factor and I think you'll find mostly noise. Net PP mins is a stat I would look at though.

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01-31-2013, 11:20 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by LarmerSavardSecord View Post
That's a really low number, close to noise considering it's just one year with 30 (n) teams. Special teams % jumps around a lot from year to year for teams for no obvious, or at least predictable reason.

Shot diff or Corsi plus SV% probably explain 90%+ of pts in regression. No new insight there, that's just explaining what we see in the real world and the standings. Dig any deeper with team stats (FO%, hits, ST%) in search of some magic factor and I think you'll find mostly noise. Net PP mins is a stat I would look at though.
Exactly my point. Good post.

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02-01-2013, 08:07 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by hockeydoug View Post
I thought Madden was pretty bad after the olympics and was among the most overrated Hawks of the cup run in 2010, Q made me happy by cutting him minutes for most of the playoffs though and everything worked out well.

Not sure the 2 can really be compared but picturing Madden in February or March 2010 vs Kruger, there might be a point to be made there.

If it is comparing that later winter/early spring 2010 Madden to Kruger, I'm not sure that's a good thing for Kruger. Madden was out of gas.
Except for the 700+ games Madden had under his belt along with 2 rings at that point.
Otherwise, he and Kruger are the same.

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02-01-2013, 08:14 AM
  #111
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Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
Except for the 700+ games Madden had under his belt along with 2 rings at that point.
Otherwise, he and Kruger are the same.
The 2 rings doesn't automatically make him a better player but maybe the experience does. From what I've seen from Kruger this year, I'd be willing to bet money he'll be better than 2010 Madden a year from now.

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02-01-2013, 08:32 AM
  #112
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
Sharp and Bolland aren't great PKers anyway.

Shaw, Bickell, Saad, etc could be jsut as good as PKers as Frosuck.
Saad, maybe.. the other two, no chance. Shaw's not good defensively - he's just not and part of the reason why Frolik is a good PKer is because he's aggressive and quick.. which is the exact opposite of Bickell, without even bothering to mention that Bickell, like Shaw, isn't good defensively.

Frolik is 100% commited to being a PKer and he's been doing an outstanding job thus far.

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02-01-2013, 08:39 AM
  #113
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Hmmmm. Let me see. Just last night Bickell was single handedly responsible for Shaw's goal. He was also throwing some punishing hits and going to the net. The 3rd line was the best line we had by a good margin. Frolik has been good at killing penalties for sure but he still can't finish despite numerous chances, and he took a needless penalty to put us in in a 5 on 3...... and it could have been called a major. That easily could have cost us the regulation win.
Uhh, single handedly? Minny turned the puck over to Patrick Kane, Kane found Bickell, who actually went to the net (which is rare for Bickell), got knocked down, lost the puck and it went right to Shaw. Good on Bickell for going to the net for once, but you make it sound like Bickell got in on the forecheck, won the puck, beat two Dmen and then set up Shaw with an amazing pass.

Neither player is going to produce much this year. The difference is, Frolik brings a consistent work ethic every night that Bickell might bring once every 10 games. Bickelll is so frustrating to watch because he's capable of being a nightmare for opposing Dmen but he's just so dman inconsistent - in every facet of his game: Physically, production, effort.

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02-01-2013, 08:54 AM
  #114
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The 2 rings doesn't automatically make him a better player but maybe the experience does. From what I've seen from Kruger this year, I'd be willing to bet money he'll be better than 2010 Madden a year from now.
Yes, it does. Madden was brought in for 2 reasons, win big draws and maybe more importantly, teach this young team of the rigors of winning a Stanley Cup.

When Kruger can do both of those, then he will be Madden's equal.

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02-01-2013, 09:02 AM
  #115
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Charlie Huddy has five cup rings. He must be two and a half times the player Madden is.

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02-01-2013, 09:02 AM
  #116
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I'm so sick of the kick the dog mentality with Bickell.

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Old
02-01-2013, 09:05 AM
  #117
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
Charlie Huddy has five cup rings. He must be two and a half times the player Madden is.
Wow, what a reasoned post.

I don't think, no I know, it doesn't quite work in your linear view.

Winning A Cup is the hardest road in sports, and you think that there is no value in having a few guys in the room who've been there and done that. Again.

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02-01-2013, 09:06 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Saad, maybe.. the other two, no chance. Shaw's not good defensively - he's just not and part of the reason why Frolik is a good PKer is because he's aggressive and quick.. which is the exact opposite of Bickell, without even bothering to mention that Bickell, like Shaw, isn't good defensively.

Frolik is 100% commited to being a PKer and he's been doing an outstanding job thus far.
There is nothing wrong with Shaw or Bickells defense as of late. Both have been doing a great job. Frolik isn't that quick, Bickell could probably keep up to him in a foot race. Shaw has been doing a great job of handling the other teams top players recently (ie/Koivu) and is willing to lay his body down in front of a shot more so than Frolik.

Frolik may be committed and doing a good job, but he is easily replaceable with what we have.

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02-01-2013, 09:11 AM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marotte Marauder View Post
Wow, what a reasoned post.

I don't think, no I know, it doesn't quite work in your linear view.

Winning A Cup is the hardest road in sports, and you think that there is no value in having a few guys in the room who've been there and done that. Again.
It was clearly sarcasm. Madden was a great pickup, and his experience certainly helped. As an on the ice player, he was tremendous the first third of the year. He then quickly started showing his age.

This current team doesn't need a veteran to show us how to win a cup. We've got one. But yes, I understand you hate Kruger.

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02-01-2013, 09:14 AM
  #120
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If Kruger ever becomes close to Madden in his prime I'll be ecstatic. The one running on fumes we got isn't that high of a bar.

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02-01-2013, 09:17 AM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Hawkaholic View Post
There is nothing wrong with Shaw or Bickells defense as of late. Both have been doing a great job. Frolik isn't that quick, Bickell could probably keep up to him in a foot race. Shaw has been doing a great job of handling the other teams top players recently (ie/Koivu) and is willing to lay his body down in front of a shot more so than Frolik.

Frolik may be committed and doing a good job, but he is easily replaceable with what we have.
Someone who has access to advanced stats would have to look it up, but I haven't noticed any one line in paticular playing against the other team's top line - I would guess it's the Toews line - but I highly doubt Shaw, Bickell and Stalberg have been out there against the other team's best.

Even with his goal against Minny - and that was Shaw's best game this seaon, hands down -Shaw's still had a really rough start to the season. Anyone who says otherwise hasn't been watching the games. He should be back on the wing, but since we've been winning, you can't expect Q to change the lines.

As for Bickell being just as fast as Frolik: Top-end speed doesn't matter on the PK, acceleration and quickness does. Frolik is much quicker and gets to his top-end speed faster than Bickell, which allows him to do what he's been doing: Pressure the points and create turnovers.

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02-01-2013, 09:21 AM
  #122
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Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Uhh, single handedly? Minny turned the puck over to Patrick Kane, Kane found Bickell, who actually went to the net (which is rare for Bickell), got knocked down, lost the puck and it went right to Shaw. Good on Bickell for going to the net for once, but you make it sound like Bickell got in on the forecheck, won the puck, beat two Dmen and then set up Shaw with an amazing pass.

Neither player is going to produce much this year. The difference is, Frolik brings a consistent work ethic every night that Bickell might bring once every 10 games. Bickelll is so frustrating to watch because he's capable of being a nightmare for opposing Dmen but he's just so dman inconsistent - in every facet of his game: Physically, production, effort.
BB has been more consistent this year and the effort he put into that Shaw goal was much more than just stumbling into a set up. This team needs his big body if he can play like he has been. I agree he needs to go to the net at every opportunity and still doesn’t do it enough, but I also feel that most of the criticism of Bickell is left over from previous years. It’s just the fashionable thing to do on this board. Shaw has been the weak link on the 3rd line. If Shaw has finally broken out of his slump, I look for that line to continue their fine play we saw in the last game.
There’s no questioning the efforts of Frolik, but he can’t score and doesn’t create much offense at all despite numerous opportunities. Talk about frustration! He also gets rag dolled a lot by the opps and is overpaid to boot. I know which player I’d rather have on the Hawks. Frolik as a PK specialist is fine by me, but for the money he makes he should bring more.

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02-01-2013, 09:24 AM
  #123
Marotte Marauder
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
It was clearly sarcasm. Madden was a great pickup, and his experience certainly helped. As an on the ice player, he was tremendous the first third of the year. He then quickly started showing his age.

This current team doesn't need a veteran to show us how to win a cup. We've got one. But yes, I understand you hate Kruger.
We do need the winning big draws part of it, big time.

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02-01-2013, 09:27 AM
  #124
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As a fourth line center Mayers is more than average on draws.

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02-01-2013, 09:28 AM
  #125
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Originally Posted by DisgruntledHawkFan View Post
It was clearly sarcasm. Madden was a great pickup, and his experience certainly helped. As an on the ice player, he was tremendous the first third of the year. He then quickly started showing his age.

This current team doesn't need a veteran to show us how to win a cup. We've got one. But yes, I understand you hate Kruger.
More like nine.

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