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Spezza for Benn/Couture

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Old
01-31-2013, 08:37 PM
  #26
Cujomi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inthewings View Post
I feel like your underrating Couture, Benn, and the effects of both age and back problems. It would be shocking if Couture and Benn aren't the more productive players over the next decade.
If you take the next 10 years, sure. But these teams aren't in a position to do any of that anyway...we're more concerned with the next 3 - 5 and we'll see what happens from there. Spezza should still be an elite player for the next 3 - 5 years. Beyond what Couture and Benn will be, anyway.

I think people really underrate how valuable a player is that has played his entire career in a city (even if he's never been appreciated). If Spezza stays in Ottawa for his entire career that would be really cool -- and he's said he admires Alfredsson for having done so.

Anyway...most people on this board are always thinking about the distant future. They never think about the right now, or the near future. Anything can happen in 5 years time. Couture and Benn could have easily already posted their best seasons. Spezza could be chronically injured and fall off. Who knows? But people here think that draft picks are better than proven players. I like what Spezza brings to our team right now and for the forseeable future he's the guy I'd want on my team -- not Benn and Couture.

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01-31-2013, 08:38 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Spezza has always been, and will always be, underrated. Benn and Couture will never reach Spezza's level of play. They aren't on his level of talent, and he's just putting it all together (offence and defence). Outside of his injury problems he's one of the more valuable players in the league and a top 10 centre.

Neither of those guys could come even CLOSE to a PPG with Michalek + random AHL winger especially when you consider that even Joe Thornton couldn't get Michalek to score 30 goals.

So tired of the disrespect that Spezza gets from everyone. Elite player that is way better than Couture or Benn. Would just be making our team worse and hurting the room, too.
No one's claiming that Couture or Benn is better than Spezza. But considering Spezza's age and contract, neither San Jose nor Dallas has any interest in the proposed trades. Just settle down.

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01-31-2013, 08:41 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
No one's claiming that Couture or Benn is better than Spezza. But considering Spezza's age and contract, neither San Jose nor Dallas has any interest in the proposed trades. Just settle down.
I'm not interested in the trade. Just a few of the Ottawa fans that have always been calling for Spezza's head continuing to spread that ****.

I know the trade itself doesn't make sense for any of the teams involved. Ottawa wouldn't do it because they have the best player, and more than enough room. San Jose and Dallas wouldn't do it because of money and age issues along with current team compositions.

If you only have 3 years going forward of these three players, healthy, every single team on the planet takes Spezza. That's all.

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01-31-2013, 08:42 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
If you take the next 10 years, sure. But these teams aren't in a position to do any of that anyway...we're more concerned with the next 3 - 5 and we'll see what happens from there. Spezza should still be an elite player for the next 3 - 5 years. Beyond what Couture and Benn will be, anyway.

I think people really underrate how valuable a player is that has played his entire career in a city (even if he's never been appreciated). If Spezza stays in Ottawa for his entire career that would be really cool -- and he's said he admires Alfredsson for having done so.

Anyway...most people on this board are always thinking about the distant future. They never think about the right now, or the near future. Anything can happen in 5 years time. Couture and Benn could have easily already posted their best seasons. Spezza could be chronically injured and fall off. Who knows? But people here think that draft picks are better than proven players. I like what Spezza brings to our team right now and for the forseeable future he's the guy I'd want on my team -- not Benn and Couture.
Well they'll both be more valuable as soon as this season. Next year Spezza will be a year further removed from typical NHL prime years and be coming off back surgery while Benn and Couture will be entering their age-24 seasons. It isn't a slam dunk that he'll be better even in the near-future.

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01-31-2013, 08:54 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
I'm not interested in the trade. Just a few of the Ottawa fans that have always been calling for Spezza's head continuing to spread that ****.

I know the trade itself doesn't make sense for any of the teams involved. Ottawa wouldn't do it because they have the best player, and more than enough room. San Jose and Dallas wouldn't do it because of money and age issues along with current team compositions.

If you only have 3 years going forward of these three players, healthy, every single team on the planet takes Spezza. That's all.
You need to calm the **** down. It was a Sens fan who proposed the deal, not a Sharks or Stars fan.

And as for your last point, I wasn't aware that Spezza was magically healthy and that the world was going to end in 3 years. Welcome to reality, right?

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01-31-2013, 09:01 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
You need to calm the **** down. It was a Sens fan who proposed the deal, not a Sharks or Stars fan.

And as for your last point, I wasn't aware that Spezza was magically healthy and that the world was going to end in 3 years. Welcome to reality, right?
It's weird that you keep telling me to "calm down" over the internet...as though I'm about to go on some kind of blind rage and destroy everything in sight (watch out!).

Anyway...this situation might work out ideally for Ottawa anyway. Spezza generally goes into beast mode on returning from injury. He'll be getting back just near the end of the season if he comes back and if we can get into the playoffs in that time we'll have a healthy, rested Spezza who can tear it up in the playoffs while the rest of the league will be mostly banged up...it'll be a huge boost. He's not the only player in the league that is going to get into injury troubles with this compact and intense schedule.

Alfredsson hasn't played a single full season over his career since his rookie year in Ottawa. He's 41 now and has had many injury issues...I'm not worried about Spezza with the kind of talent he has. He doesn't have a lot of wear and tear because he's not a physical player which is definitely in his favor.

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01-31-2013, 09:08 PM
  #32
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Daniel Alfredsson was a freak who peaked in his early-mid 30s and seemed to recuperate from injuries faster than should have been humanly possible.

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01-31-2013, 09:11 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by inthewings View Post
Daniel Alfredsson was a freak who peaked in his early-mid 30s and seemed to recuperate from injuries faster than should have been humanly possible.
Antler spray.

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Old
01-31-2013, 09:14 PM
  #34
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Even if Spezza wasn't injured, if we only consider long term vs short term performance, the Sharks and Stars still lose this deal. Even if we don't consider salary and whether or not teams can afford them.

Long term, Couture and Benn > Spezza. Spezza might be slightly better in the short term, but the difference isn't big enough to justify the long term loss.

Sens win

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01-31-2013, 09:47 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
I'm not interested in the trade. Just a few of the Ottawa fans that have always been calling for Spezza's head continuing to spread that ****.

I know the trade itself doesn't make sense for any of the teams involved. Ottawa wouldn't do it because they have the best player, and more than enough room. San Jose and Dallas wouldn't do it because of money and age issues along with current team compositions.

If you only have 3 years going forward of these three players, healthy, every single team on the planet takes Spezza. That's all.
But we don't, though. We have five years of Jamie Benn to look forward to.

No deal.

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01-31-2013, 10:02 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
If you only have 3 years going forward of these three players, healthy, every single team on the planet takes Spezza. That's all.
Why would you even say this? This statement is more ridiculous than any trade proposal on this board.

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01-31-2013, 10:40 PM
  #37
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It is very unlikely that Benn or Couture ever produce as much as Spezza does. The guy is PPG for his career, there aren't too many players left like that. But that's what he was. Benn and Couture hold more value right now because of age, contract and injuries.

Talent is not the only thing used to measure value.

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01-31-2013, 10:42 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Even if Spezza wasn't injured, if we only consider long term vs short term performance, the Sharks and Stars still lose this deal. Even if we don't consider salary and whether or not teams can afford them.

Long term, Couture and Benn > Spezza. Spezza might be slightly better in the short term, but the difference isn't big enough to justify the long term loss.

Sens win
No, he clearly is, but it isn't surprising that you would say that.... you tried to prove that Sens were a better team without Spezza.

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01-31-2013, 10:56 PM
  #39
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No, he clearly is, but it isn't surprising that you would say that.... you tried to prove that Sens were a better team without Spezza.


No, that's not what I tried to prove. Try again.




Also, it's might. Spezza's prime has come and gone, while that's obviously not the case for Couture and Benn. Benn specifically, his development has just been phenomenal. That guy just keeps sky rocketing up the charts.

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02-01-2013, 01:10 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Spezza has always been, and will always be, underrated. Benn and Couture will never reach Spezza's level of play. They aren't on his level of talent, and he's just putting it all together (offence and defence). Outside of his injury problems he's one of the more valuable players in the league and a top 10 centre.

Neither of those guys could come even CLOSE to a PPG with Michalek + random AHL winger especially when you consider that even Joe Thornton couldn't get Michalek to score 30 goals.

So tired of the disrespect that Spezza gets from everyone. Elite player that is way better than Couture or Benn. Would just be making our team worse and hurting the room, too.
Michalek never played with Thornton.

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Old
02-01-2013, 01:32 AM
  #41
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Not starting anything with you, but Benn is 23.
He's also signed for another 5 (not 4) years after this season.

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02-01-2013, 01:34 AM
  #42
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Michalek never played with Thornton.
I'm pretty sure he did I'm 2008.

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Old
02-01-2013, 07:59 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by inthewings View Post
Spezza is 29 and signed 2 years after this at 7 per.
Benn is 24 and signed 4 years after this at 5.25 per.
Couture is 23 and signed 1 year after this at 2.875 (RFA after, and he's from Ottawa)

Spezza is currently the best player, but he's also exiting his prime and suffering from chronic back issues. Benn and Couture are just entering their prime years, are cheaper than Spezza, and have no chronic injury issues.

As an Ottawa fan I'd easily trade Spezza for either one.
All teams say no
Spezza is the best player right now = No
Benn is younger tougher ,much harder to play against,plus younger and has gotten better every year and is signed to a more reasonable contract = no
Couture is being groom to take over from big Joe , plus younger and can still get better ,plus better contract = no

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02-01-2013, 09:41 AM
  #44
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some sens fans scare me sometimes....

Spezza is by far a better player than either of Benn/Couture right now. He's older so I totally understand why someone would not want him for his age/salary. But some of the fans coming on and saying we would have to add to Spezza to get Benn are being ridiculous. The guy is elite.


Sigh, cmon guys.

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Old
02-01-2013, 09:49 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post


No, that's not what I tried to prove. Try again.




Also, it's might. Spezza's prime has come and gone, while that's obviously not the case for Couture and Benn. Benn specifically, his development has just been phenomenal. That guy just keeps sky rocketing up the charts.
I thought Spezza entered his prime last year. As someone who has watched his entire career I was very impressed to see him put everything together last year and play consistent elite hockey at both ends of the ice. I don't see any reason to think his prime is over. And I just recovered from a herniated disc so I don't see it being a significant problem for him after this season.

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Old
02-01-2013, 09:52 AM
  #46
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Injured and much older? Will be a hard sell

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