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Metro Seattle: NHL, NBA and Arena - Part VI

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Old
02-01-2013, 10:20 AM
  #176
Dado
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Where are they going to play in Seattle while the arena gets built? Key? If it's a small ****hole for basketball, how is it acceptable for hockey?
The arena only has to be big enough to avoid losing more than the $30M/yr it (allegedly) loses in Phoenix. A 5k-10k arena would probably be enough. How many did the Cow Palace seat in the early days of the Sharks?

 
Old
02-01-2013, 10:42 AM
  #177
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A little under 12,000 at the Cow for the Sharks back in the day.

This thing is such a circus I fully expect the league to keep the team and play in US Airways next season and the whole thing stays in stasis another year. haha

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02-01-2013, 10:46 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
The arena only has to be big enough to avoid losing more than the $30M/yr it (allegedly) loses in Phoenix. A 5k-10k arena would probably be enough.
No offense, but that seems like a ridiculous premise. Who would spend a couple hundred million dollars on a team if their best case scenario right off the bat, when they should be a nice and hot new thing raking in the dough, would be to just not lose as much money as Phoenix?

Plus, the NHL of today is very, very different from the NHL that saw the Senators and Sharks come into play, not to mention with very different economic realities on, and off, the ice.

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02-01-2013, 10:46 AM
  #179
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It might just barely possibly make do as a temp, but only if the new arena is confirmed to be ready to start construction, and that an NBA team is on the way. I don't think an NHL owner would be a problem, but the other two elements haven't as of yet been established, thus everything is on hold. And thus "temp" isn't good enough, I don't think so. Of course, those other issues could be resolved at any monent, who knows.

Yeah if coyotes were to move to Seattle, is under the assumptiOn that Seattle has the kings.

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02-01-2013, 10:49 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
No offense, but that seems like a ridiculous premise. Who would spend a couple hundred million dollars on a team if their best case scenario right off the bat, when they should be a nice and hot new thing raking in the dough, would be to just not lose as much money as Phoenix?

Plus, the NHL of today is very, very different from the NHL that saw the Senators and Sharks come into play, not to mention with very different economic realities on, and off, the ice.

Would you be willing to slum it for 2 years, if you know by the end OC the 2 years you would move into a palatial estate?

Someone like levin who says Seattle is the best untapped market right now and that he would do whatever it takes to get a team there, including playing in key arena

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02-01-2013, 10:59 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by superdeluxe View Post
Would you be willing to slum it for 2 years, if you know by the end OC the 2 years you would move into a palatial estate?

Someone like levin who says Seattle is the best untapped market right now and that he would do whatever it takes to get a team there, including playing in key arena
Maybe, maybe not. In two years' time (which, btw, there is zero chance that the arena will be ready in only two years), the new team smell will be off and their initial window of opportunity to make money during the honeymoon period will be replaced with the expectations for being competitive in order to rake in the buck.

It's effectively throwing away the free cash period of a franchise's existence.

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02-01-2013, 10:59 AM
  #182
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Let's not forget that I'm guessing NBC would love to rope in two top 25 DMA markets in #12 Seattle and #22 Portland.

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02-01-2013, 11:01 AM
  #183
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
Maybe, maybe not. In two years' time (which, btw, there is zero chance that the arena will be ready in only two years), the new team smell will be off and their initial window of opportunity to make money during the honeymoon period will be replaced with the expectations for being competitive in order to rake in the buck.

It's effectively throwing away the free cash period of a franchise's existence.
The word is the arena would be ready for start of 2015-2016 season.

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02-01-2013, 11:02 AM
  #184
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Let's not forget that I'm guessing NBC would love to rope in two top 25 DMA markets in #12 Seattle and #22 Portland.
I'm sure that they would, but considering that the current NHL deal with NBC runs through 2021, I doubt that that's the highest priority for the NHL right now.

Maybe a few years down the line, a la expansion, though....

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02-01-2013, 11:04 AM
  #185
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The word is the arena would be ready for start of 2015-2016 season.
I somehow doubt that they'd move that rapidly, as that's effectively the same time as when the new arena in Quebec City will be ready, and they essentially will have had at least 6-12 months of construction and over two years of planning head starts on Seattle, and that's assuming that Seattle hurries and starts building very soon and without delay.

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02-01-2013, 11:06 AM
  #186
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And I really do think You could grow hockey here with the youth

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02-01-2013, 12:27 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by No Fun Shogun View Post
I somehow doubt that they'd move that rapidly, as that's effectively the same time as when the new arena in Quebec City will be ready, and they essentially will have had at least 6-12 months of construction and over two years of planning head starts on Seattle, and that's assuming that Seattle hurries and starts building very soon and without delay.
Shovel in ground 4th quarter 2013 if everything goes according to script.

Quebec taking longer has no bearing on when Seattle finishes. This has already been discussed on why Quebec would take longer (weather, strong unions, red tape). Projects in Washington also tend to get bonuses if they finish earlier

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02-01-2013, 12:36 PM
  #188
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Would you be willing to slum it for 2 years, if you know by the end OC the 2 years you would move into a palatial estate?
Exactly.

Long term vs short term.

 
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02-01-2013, 12:55 PM
  #189
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Shovel in ground 4th quarter 2013 if everything goes according to script.

Quebec taking longer has no bearing on when Seattle finishes. This has already been discussed on why Quebec would take longer (weather, strong unions, red tape). Projects in Washington also tend to get bonuses if they finish earlier
I guess we'll see then.

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Exactly.

Long term vs short term.
That was the attitude that put the Yotes in the desert. How'd that turn out for them?

Piling on a mountain of debt/red ink early on significantly delays the road to profitability, especially given the fact that if they get the Yotes they're going to be second fiddle right off the bat to the returned SuperSonics, so even their initial honeymoon as a new team will be dampened by the market's disposable income already dealing with another new team being added to the fray.

So, in other words, we could be talking about a team whose initial sales are lesser than they would be than if they came in on their own and one whose immediate return on investment is limited due to the very small temp arena. Not a good mix, and that's coming from someone that thinks Seattle would be a great fit for the NHL.

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02-01-2013, 01:07 PM
  #190
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As for the Key Arena, it WILL work for an interim basis. The pictures of it being "tarped" are there because the T-birds rarely drew more than 4,000 people and no need to expand the seating capacity area for that. The key arena was remodeled in the mid-90s for basketball. The arena is fine for now but lacks some of the extra luxuries like lots of suites ,etc. Wiki says the hockey capacity would be 15,177. Elsewhere I read that 11k of those seats would be "good" seats and 4k for "obstructed" seats. I would make that lower end that is tarped as a $10-20 beer garden type seating area where you come for the game and ambience and not the specific seat - similar to the Mariners' Pen area.

For comparison: US Airways Center in Phoenix held 16,210 for hockey, Cow Palace 11,089 in San Francisco, Barclays Center 14,500 in Brooklyn, Miami Arena 14,703, etc. Key Arena can suffice for 1-2 years.

The Thunderbirds left for the Showare center because after the success of the Everett Silvertips and Comcast Arena in the north end of the metro area, the southend was hoping for similar as an alternative to the Tacoma Dome. The team draws a similar amount of people per game (~4k) in Kent as it did in Seattle. Note that from downtown Seattle, it is about the same distance to both Everett & Kent.

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02-01-2013, 01:25 PM
  #191
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That was the attitude that put the Yotes in the desert. How'd that turn out for them?
It was also the attitude that put the first teams in Montreal and Vancouver.

You win some, you lose some.

 
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02-01-2013, 02:08 PM
  #192
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Ideally Seattle would work best starting in 2015 but any prospective owner wanting a team in the NW will gladly use The Key for a year or two.

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02-01-2013, 02:17 PM
  #193
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The 30m down payment to maloofs is now non-refundable thus are now business partners. Either hansen or the maloofs can file for relocation.

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02-01-2013, 02:22 PM
  #194
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Would you be willing to slum it for 2 years, if you know by the end OC the 2 years you would move into a palatial estate?

Someone like levin who says Seattle is the best untapped market right now and that he would do whatever it takes to get a team there, including playing in key arena
While I do believe Levin would do everything he can, you as an NHL fan, will you be willing to pay Toronto/Montréal/NYRangers price ?

Because it's not the attendance only. It's been proven that in Phoenix, the issue is as much attendance as is the low price. So, if Seattle sells 10000 seats per game, making 420 000 sold tickets per season, if that average price is under $100 I doubt it will go much better financially that it currently is in Phoenix.

Take in consideration he will have to improve his team and make it competitive (which the team currently is) but that won't last long unless the payroll goes up aswell.

What I am trying to say is that Coyotes, be it in Seattle or Quebec will cost more than they currently cost in Phoenix. But their revenues will be much higher aswell.

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02-01-2013, 04:33 PM
  #195
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...if Seattle sells 10000 seats per game, making 420 000 sold tickets per season, if that average price is under $100 I doubt it will go much better financially that it currently is in Phoenix.
That would already be nearly twice the gate revenue Phoenix gets, @$99. And I rather doubt Seattle would only be selling 10k seats per game. Never mind the corporate box potential.

 
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02-01-2013, 04:45 PM
  #196
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With more corporate support, I think Seattle could sell decent amoUnt of seats. This town does love winners, which is why I think reloc might work better than expansion

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02-01-2013, 04:55 PM
  #197
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That would already be nearly twice the gate revenue Phoenix gets, @$99. And I rather doubt Seattle would only be selling 10k seats per game. Never mind the corporate box potential.
They would be at Key Arena basically which is what the post was saying.

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02-01-2013, 04:59 PM
  #198
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Isn't NYI going to sell some of the obstructed seats for a lower price at Barclays? If they did that in Seattle, KeyArena wouldn't necessarily be limited to 10k seats.

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02-01-2013, 05:01 PM
  #199
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We don't even know what the team would set seating cap at. 15k or 11k. Nevermind if the renovations Hansen plans to do to make it NBA/NHL ready to make the seating sights better or not.

Right now its just mostly discussion but have yet to actually see what the renovated Key Arena would look like with the NBA/NHL changes hansen plans to make.

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02-01-2013, 09:14 PM
  #200
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a few Totems concepts with green and black:







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