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Cole's Plus/Minus: Pens vs. Rangers SLOP FEST!!!

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Old
02-01-2013, 10:45 AM
  #276
mpp9
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Well what are we lacking right now?

Speed, size on the wing, someone to throw down with anyone who ****s with Sid/Geno, a proper netfront guy and RHS for the PP and ideally someone who can grow with the team.

Anyone think of a more ideal forward to bring in than Stewart?

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02-01-2013, 10:48 AM
  #277
BlindWillyMcHurt
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I've been wanting this team to swing a deal for Stewart for a while.

I just don't want them to give up anything crucial for him.

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02-01-2013, 10:49 AM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Jag68Sid87 View Post
Top six forwards who can fight and protect star players are like gold. They're not easily available. EVERYBODY wants them. But the Eric Godard's of the world are available and affordable, and they help. The players feel more comfortable with them around. It just is.

Secondly, WE are becoming one of those inferior teams you speak of, especially if we keep picking up 5-9, 5-10 forwards.
You're right, there aren't may top 6 forwards like that. There are plenty of bottom 6 forwards like that though, and as of now we have none (well, maybe Glass).

It would be hard to dress a Macintyre, because he is awful. Although you could argue just how important the 12th forward usually is. How many less goals would Mac score than Adams? But guys like Adams are effective PK's, grinders, etc. The problem is, a goon's 'worth' usually can't be tangibly measured. But I bet if you polled Sid, Geno, or any star in the league, they'd overwhelmingly want an enforcer.

I've said for a while that my problem w/ Shero is letting guys like Rupp, Asham, Talbot, etc leave, and 'replacing' them w/ guys like Richard Park, Chris Conner, etc. Not that Shero should have overpaid to keep those guys, but he didn't replace what they brought to the table. I would have loved to have a guy like Chris Neil brought in this year, or Gaustad, Clutterbuck, etc.

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02-01-2013, 10:53 AM
  #279
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Originally Posted by BlindWillyMcHurt View Post
I've been wanting this team to swing a deal for Stewart for a while.

I just don't want them to give up anything crucial for him.
He'd be ideal for this team. I'd probably give up a good bit for him.

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02-01-2013, 10:54 AM
  #280
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I also wanted to specifically mention (since I haven't seen it here, yet) that Kennedy played an absolutely brutal game, last night (and the last few games before that one). Kind of looking like those first two games from him were an aberration.

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02-01-2013, 10:57 AM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
He'd be ideal for this team. I'd probably give up a good bit for him.
Roster player (and of what significance)? Pick(s)? Prospects?

What do you think St. Louis would be looking for?

I'd love to have Clutterbuck on this team, BTW. If for no other reason than his name. But mostly because he's kind of a badass.

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02-01-2013, 10:57 AM
  #282
Le Magnifique 66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindWillyMcHurt View Post
I've been wanting this team to swing a deal for Stewart for a while.

I just don't want them to give up anything crucial for him.
Then we ain't going to get him. It's going to cost us something decent for a guy that's still 24 years old

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02-01-2013, 10:57 AM
  #283
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Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
You're right, there aren't may top 6 forwards like that. There are plenty of bottom 6 forwards like that though, and as of now we have none (well, maybe Glass).

It would be hard to dress a Macintyre, because he is awful. Although you could argue just how important the 12th forward usually is. How many less goals would Mac score than Adams? But guys like Adams are effective PK's, grinders, etc. The problem is, a goon's 'worth' usually can't be tangibly measured. But I bet if you polled Sid, Geno, or any star in the league, they'd overwhelmingly want an enforcer.

I've said for a while that my problem w/ Shero is letting guys like Rupp, Asham, Talbot, etc leave, and 'replacing' them w/ guys like Richard Park, Chris Conner, etc. Not that Shero should have overpaid to keep those guys, but he didn't replace what they brought to the table. I would have loved to have a guy like Chris Neil brought in this year, or Gaustad, Clutterbuck, etc.
I incredibly doubt that.

Not that they'd say don't get one, but I bet they don't care and they'd rather just have a good player / teammate, whatever his skillset may be.

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02-01-2013, 10:59 AM
  #284
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I'm not saying I wouldn't give to get. I just don't think it would be wise to ship off, say... Simon Despres. And not just because of this past game. This team can ill afford to give up just-about-there young defensemen, right now. The ready defensive depth on this team is gross.

Though I'm thinking the Bluenotes wouldn't really be interested in more defensemen.

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02-01-2013, 11:00 AM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlindWillyMcHurt View Post
Roster player (and of what significance)? Pick(s)? Prospects?

What do you think St. Louis would be looking for?

I'd love to have Clutterbuck on this team, BTW. If for no other reason than his name. But mostly because he's kind of a badass.
I don't know enough about St. Louis to have any idea what they'd be looking for. I'd part with a player, pick, and/or prospect though.

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02-01-2013, 11:03 AM
  #286
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Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
I don't know enough about St. Louis to have any idea what they'd be looking for. I'd part with a player, pick, and/or prospect though.
Thing is the Blues are going to be challenging for the Cup this year, moving a goal scorer for a prospect or pick isn't going to help them whatsoever. They're not making a deal for Stewart unless they get a goal scorer back in exchange and we don't have that in our lineup right now outside of the big 3. Doubt they're interested in Kunitz

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02-01-2013, 11:05 AM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Terrapin View Post
I don't know enough about St. Louis to have any idea what they'd be looking for. I'd part with a player, pick, and/or prospect though.
They'd want a top 4 defenseman that can step in right away. They are in the same boat as us as far as not needing prospects go. They are going to want players that can make an immediate impact and get them a cup.

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02-01-2013, 11:06 AM
  #288
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Originally Posted by BlindWillyMcHurt View Post
I've been wanting this team to swing a deal for Stewart for a while.

I just don't want them to give up anything crucial for him.
There's still a carousel of top 4 LD's on the Blues. Redden is a stopgap at best. Russell has struggled. Cole isn't ready.

Just as our lack of secondary scoring will be exposed in the playoffs unless remedied, Pietro will have a rough go of it against teams like Chicago/LA/SJ unless he gets someone who can help play the transition game under pressure.

Personally, I'd move Despres if we're also dealing for a vet who can play with Letang.

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02-01-2013, 11:06 AM
  #289
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Yeah, I guess Kunitz was really my only idea.

And... well... I can't really see the appeal there from St. Louis' perspective.

EDIT: For some reason I thought St. Louis was loaded at D. Obviously not. It's close but I still don't think I'd give up Despres for him. He's the only young player in the system that we know for certain can play that kind of two-way game. I know people have ragers for Morrow and Pouliot, right now... but they have proven exactly nothing. In Morrow's case... some would say he's proven less than nothing.

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02-01-2013, 11:19 AM
  #290
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It's been public knowledge for over a year that DA is looking for Pietro's longterm partner. Just as we're looking for Sid's longterm winger.

Depends if we're willing to deal from our defense to make it happen.

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02-01-2013, 11:28 AM
  #291
Le Magnifique 66
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Originally Posted by BlindWillyMcHurt View Post
Yeah, I guess Kunitz was really my only idea.

And... well... I can't really see the appeal there from St. Louis' perspective.

EDIT: For some reason I thought St. Louis was loaded at D. Obviously not. It's close but I still don't think I'd give up Despres for him. He's the only young player in the system that we know for certain can play that kind of two-way game. I know people have ragers for Morrow and Pouliot, right now... but they have proven exactly nothing. In Morrow's case... some would say he's proven less than nothing.
Morrow would definitely be the 1st one I would ship out of all our young d's.

Harrington keeps looking better and better, Maatta and Pouliot are longer term projects and Despres if given the chance can make things happen but at his age will make mistakes from time to time and instead of benching him the coaching staff should encourage him the same way they do by putting guys like Lovejoy back out there after terrible plays

Anyways I've always been big on Despres maybe cause of the Q years and he is one I followed the most

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02-01-2013, 11:43 AM
  #292
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+ VOKOUN!
+ Despres, because this game will give him confidence to grow
+ Malkin, didn't need a winger, just a defensemen to set him up. hmmmm

-- Fleury's fans, knocked down a peg
- Letang on the powerplay, continues to be a failure. Its no coincidence that our one powerplay goal happened when Letang fell into his own net and couldn't carry the puck into the zone or participate in the play.
It's pretty hypocritical of you to ***** about MAF almost getting scored on in the OTT game and completely disregard all the Pipes the Rags hit last night.

But hey, haters gotta hate.

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02-01-2013, 11:46 AM
  #293
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I actually got a whisper once for one of their mods for being one of the most known Rangers' haters, and specifically because I used the term 'Rags.' I was told it meant Tampon, at least to them. Honestly, that never occured to me in a million years. I always thought that it was just shortened like 'Pens.' Granted I do hate the Rangers, their fans specifically. I would boo a New York 7 year old girl in a spelling bee to tears just on principle. But that term? I have not used it since because of that.

The Isles and their posters here at HF I always got along well with. I can hardly believe that they are New Yorkers. I can have a rational and enjoyable conversation with Isle fans and they have always been one of my favorite fan bases. But Ranger fans? Nope. But I have shied awau from that term for a while.
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The "Derogatory Nicknames" rule, or whatever it is, came up mostly because of player nicknames (without outright saying it, think Luongo and his penchant for allowing 7 goals against in playoff games...our dear friend Cindy Crysbaby also played into it a bit). It's up to the discretion as to if the nickname is meant in malice or not. Rangers fans rallied to get 'Rags' included in the list of no-nos.

Before posts started getting changed last year I'd never even thought of Rags as a derogatory name. That was no different in my eyes than Bolts, Pens, or Sens...it was just the single syllable shortened version of the name.

If you use it on there boards they might see it as trolling or flaming. Elsewhere we look at it in the context it is used.

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02-01-2013, 12:50 PM
  #294
#66
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Great point on the defense. Martin/Letang were very good because we limited our "PMDs" to a smaller number. Even though Engo/Orpik/Despres can move well - they are still great with their defense. Defense first players are working in the NHL. Want some proof?

Guys like Matt Greene, Mark Stuart, Scuds, Orpik, Seidenberg, etc. are all CRUCIAL members to their team. I think those defenders are worth a lot right now.
Yup BIG mobile defenders should be treated like gold.

If you look at the trend, its smaller PMD that can get to pucks beofre forwards. This trend has been set since the last lock out and growing year by year. You can almost see that teams are becoming big up front to bully around these small defensemen.

Going big and mobile now would be wise.

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02-01-2013, 03:11 PM
  #295
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+ Vokoun

+ the Defense (singling out Despres, though. Goal notwithstanding he's looking comfortable after a terribly rocky start)

+ Jeffrey. Just such a smart guy. Seems to have chemistry with Malkin. Wish he had more weapons. They should get Rick Kehoe to teach him how to put some mustard on his shot, like he did with Jagr.

~Malkin. His hand is clearly bothering him. Only shooting as a last resort. If his hand was not bothering him, that 2 on 1 with DJ ends up in the net.

- Kunitz. Just too many pointless turnovers. Again. Guy like him can't be doing that.

- the Rangers. The guys they traded for Rick Nash didn't match Nash's value, imo. However, they subtracted two hard-working fast-ish players from their lineup and got one good skater back. Rangers have a big-time team speed issue (Stepan, Richards, Girardi, Boyle, Bickell, Halpern...all average to below average speed), and it's only gotten worse by subtracting AA and Dubinsky and adding Asham. I'm anxious to see how they handle someone like Grabner the next time they play the Isles.

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02-01-2013, 03:15 PM
  #296
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That's a spot on post, right there. Especially the part about the Rangers woes. Couldn't agree more. The biggest reason the Penguins even took that game is because the Rangers look like they are in complete disarray.

As for Malkin... this is the first I've heard of his hand possibly bugging him. I know he took a nasty crosscheck earlier in the season (against the Rangers, I think). But what's up with his hand?

On a side note... I was surprised at how many people had Malkin as a firm minus in this game. I didn't think he was that bad. Some poor work on the point... but hey... that wasn't his idea, ya know? He's even said in the past that he isn't comfortable, there.

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02-01-2013, 03:23 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by 10 Min Misconduct View Post
If you use it on there boards they might see it as trolling or flaming. Elsewhere we look at it in the context it is used.
I keep away from other team's boards except to read. Rarely I post there, and when I do it is always with the rule in the back of my mind that I am a guest in their house. Usually it is only informational. If someone asks our lineup or something like that, I kind of believe that those who go to other team's board looking to 'teach' them why they are 'wrong' deserve all that they get. I got my whisper on the main boards. In any event I only mentioned it as I would expect most, like me, had zero clue how they were hearing it. Calling them a tampon. Just sounded like 'Pens' to me. So for informational purposes, and however silly it seems that they took that meaning from it, thought people should know that they did.

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02-01-2013, 03:30 PM
  #298
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What's funny to me is that Rangers fans feel the same way we do about liberties being taken. They think Crosby and Malkin were bullying their players.

So while we're all over here yelling "hit him with your purse, ya pansies!" they're on the other side acting like the Pens are running roughshod on them physically.

I really do hope the Pens add some grit though, the bottom six is pretty stale and I don't want to see a guy like Boychuk get shoehorned into that role, lest I be forced to refer to him as Beranekchuk. Getting Clutterbuck would be great, and he'd a long term solution to replace Cooke. A lot of the Pens' role players are getting a bit long in the tooth, an infusion of youth and energy could work wonders. Maybe Zach Sill gets a look.

I want to see a Farnham-Vitale-Sill line just once, just for the mayhem that would ensue.

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02-01-2013, 03:35 PM
  #299
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Originally Posted by Zen Arcade View Post
What's funny to me is that Rangers fans feel the same way we do about liberties being taken. They think Crosby and Malkin were bullying their players.

So while we're all over here yelling "hit him with your purse, ya pansies!" they're on the other side acting like the Pens are running roughshod on them physically.

I really do hope the Pens add some grit though, the bottom six is pretty stale and I don't want to see a guy like Boychuk get shoehorned into that role, lest I be forced to refer to him as Beranekchuk. Getting Clutterbuck would be great, and he'd a long term solution to replace Cooke. A lot of the Pens' role players are getting a bit long in the tooth, an infusion of youth and energy could work wonders. Maybe Zach Sill gets a look.

I want to see a Farnham-Vitale-Sill line just once, just for the mayhem that ensue.
It was more like they were targetting our stars. Taking runs at Malkin and Crosby specifically and cheap shots. I don't know about you but you jump Gaborik and Richards when they start pulling that stuff. Crosby and his concussion history especially, you need to send a message that targetting either of those two means your two star players have huge targets on their backs. Or aim for Staal and his concussion issues. The other players need to know there will be a price.

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02-01-2013, 03:38 PM
  #300
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Originally Posted by BlindWillyMcHurt View Post
That's a spot on post, right there. Especially the part about the Rangers woes. Couldn't agree more. The biggest reason the Penguins even took that game is because the Rangers look like they are in complete disarray.

As for Malkin... this is the first I've heard of his hand possibly bugging him. I know he took a nasty crosscheck earlier in the season (against the Rangers, I think). But what's up with his hand?

On a side note... I was surprised at how many people had Malkin as a firm minus in this game. I didn't think he was that bad. Some poor work on the point... but hey... that wasn't his idea, ya know? He's even said in the past that he isn't comfortable, there.
I saw them spraying his hand with (probably) Lidocaine in either the scrimmage or the first or second game of the year. He's not really been putting hard shots on net since then. Think he had one slap shot last night from the point, but there was very little pace on it.

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