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Phil Kessel Discussion Thread. (no goals as of Feb 4, 2013)

View Poll Results: kessel goals, 15 over or under, this year
over 86 51.50%
under 81 48.50%
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Old
02-01-2013, 01:11 PM
  #101
Diamond Joe Quimby
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Originally Posted by McClements New A View Post
Kessel will go 10 games without a goal and that is significant in an 82 game season (let alone a short one).

Of course he's going to score, but he's really putting his career and the new GM into a bad situation.
Huh?

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02-01-2013, 01:12 PM
  #102
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Originally Posted by egd27 View Post
I've probably read this at least a hundred times or more on these boards. Does it really mean anything or is it just another overused cliche from armchair GM's?
It means **** all hahaha. Some teams don't even build around a player and are successful (eg. St Louis).Others just point at a best player and say they built around him (ie. Boston or Pittsburgh). It's funny usually the player a team is "built around" is usually the player void of anyone to play with Crosby with no winger, chara with no #2 D, etc etc. the team is certainly not built around Kessel or we'd have a C already. This team is built from line 1 through line 4 each bringing a different element to the game.

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02-01-2013, 01:16 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by leafs1habs0 View Post
He's a complimentary player, not a piece to build around - now getting Getz and Perry here next season.. that's a different story!

(BTW, was that Kess who missed an empty net last night??)
"Hey Kostka, did I ever tell you you look just like Kurt Cobain? But you know, in a good way."

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Old
02-01-2013, 01:19 PM
  #104
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Originally Posted by Diamond Joe Quimby View Post
Huh?
Do you have a question?

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02-01-2013, 01:19 PM
  #105
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Originally Posted by The Podium View Post
It means **** all hahaha. Some teams don't even build around a player and are successful (eg. St Louis).Others just point at a best player and say they built around him (ie. Boston or Pittsburgh). It's funny usually the player a team is "built around" is usually the player void of anyone to play with Crosby with no winger, chara with no #2 D, etc etc. the team is certainly not built around Kessel or we'd have a C already. This team is built from line 1 through line 4 each bringing a different element to the game.
Woah, woah. Chara has Dougie (Orr) Hamilton. He lit it up last night (solid -2 and looked lost). Hall of famer, imo.

In all seriousness, good post. Most elite teams in the league have been built in a balanced fashion. You don't build around one guy. In all sports these days, elite teams build around a core of players.

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02-01-2013, 01:20 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by 7even View Post
"Hey Kostka, did I ever tell you you look just like Kurt Cobain? But you know, in a good way."
Well done, spelling bee police.

complementary it is..

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02-01-2013, 01:21 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by McClements New A View Post
Do you have a question?
Yes sir. How exactly is he putting his career in a bad situation by having a slow start? Just curious.

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02-01-2013, 01:23 PM
  #108
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Why does anyone need to be dealt? Our only holes are a #1 C, #1 G and #2D. Granted those are tough to fill but right now we have internal players with the potential to fill it. Kadri can be that #1, Rielly can be more than a #2 and Reimer can be that #1. This team is being built like Boston and St.Louis rather than Philly and Pittsburgh. Talent depth with little elite talent. When every line and every player contributes in a collaborative effort, the results are sometimes more effective than 2 generational players, and so far that's the direction this team is heading.
And Im glad we are being built like those two. I think Washington is showing that you cant be built around one or two players, when they arent playing well the whole team doesnt.

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02-01-2013, 01:24 PM
  #109
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I'd much rather have Phil Kessel and his game right now, than Ovechkin and his game.

One is skating hard, driving to the net, having 4 or 5 shots a game, and coming up with scoring chances both for himself and his teammates nightly.

The other is playing a real perimeter game, looks lost and uninterested, and had numerous shifts last night where he did nothing of note before skating off.

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02-01-2013, 01:51 PM
  #110
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So before the argument Kessel (Burke Supporters) would use was "Look at Kessels goals man" Look at his stats - he's Top6 scoring in NHL - he's like the best thing ever" Forget the teams results - forget the standings - it was all about Phils stats.

Now its ... "uhh look at him do the small things that are EXPECTED FROM EVERY PLAYER IN THE ****ING NHL"

I'm done talking about this with fanboys - you can all find me and apologize for your ignorance in a few weeks/months when Phil is traded - for significant assets that will help this team win.

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02-01-2013, 01:54 PM
  #111
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Originally Posted by leafs1habs0 View Post
You hear it a lot because it's true. You don't build teams around guys like Kessel. You add pieces like him - to an already-established team - to take you over the top. It was unfair bringing him in expecting him to be our saviour because we gave up so much for him. Granted, he's passed with flying colours with his production, but it's not a cliche.
Sorry but just a bunch of more rhetoric. Give me some reasons why, rather that just saying you don't do it. Why is a young dynamic someone you don't build around?

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02-01-2013, 01:57 PM
  #112
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Phil Kessel will have to face himself in the mirror now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamond Joe Quimby View Post
Yes sir. How exactly is he putting his career in a bad situation by having a slow start? Just curious.

He's now on pace for 0 goals and 27 assists in a 48 game season. How will he, his agent, and his GM (who'll try to move him) explain that one? Should there be a special asterisk beside that zero?

"*played really hard, learned how to back check, and rang the goal post like no other."

Kessel is not scoring and that is going to show when anyone reflects on his career.

Look at Belfour's career. Just before he became a leaf he had an off year with Dallas. Toronto fans were really skeptical and booed him when he didn't come out playing sharp.

Those little blips are actually bigger than you realize. Kessel will score, but will be hard pressed to score over 10 goals.

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02-01-2013, 01:58 PM
  #113
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diamond Joe Quimby View Post
Woah, woah. Chara has Dougie (Orr) Hamilton. He lit it up last night (solid -2 and looked lost). Hall of famer, imo.

In all seriousness, good post. Most elite teams in the league have been built in a balanced fashion. You don't build around one guy. In all sports these days, elite teams build around a core of players.
Just for clarification, Chara plays with Boychuk normally, he's out right now.

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02-01-2013, 02:00 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by egd27 View Post
Sorry but just a bunch of more rhetoric. Give me some reasons why, rather that just saying you don't do it. Why is a young dynamic someone you don't build around?
I've always felt that this Team will be good when Kessel is the 2nd best player.

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02-01-2013, 02:01 PM
  #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McClements New A View Post
He's now on pace for 0 goals and 27 assists in a 48 game season. How will he, his agent, and his GM (who'll try to move him) explain that one? Should there be a special asterisk beside that zero?

"*played really hard, learned how to back check, and rang the goal post like no other."

Kessel is not scoring and that is going to show when anyone reflects on his career.

Look at Belfour's career. Just before he became a leaf he had an off year with Dallas. Toronto fans were really skeptical and booed him when he didn't come out playing sharp.

Those little blips are actually bigger than you realize. Kessel will score, but will be hard pressed to score over 10 goals.
LOL.

The guy is coming off a ppg season where he scored over 35 goals. He's got a full year left on his contract.

And I'll bet you my life savings that he doesn't end up with 0 goals on the year.

Every player, even Sidney Crosby goes through "slumps". No one is questioning Crosby's legacy because he "didn't score for 8 games that one time". The season is young, he's got plenty of time to turn it around, and is contributing, particularly offensively even though he hasn't found the back of the net.

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Old
02-01-2013, 02:01 PM
  #116
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He's been playing well. Looks like he's in regular form and play.

He won't benefit from his usual hot start of the season, so will be an off year.

(Still hope we trade him )

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02-01-2013, 02:07 PM
  #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McClements New A View Post
He's now on pace for 0 goals and 27 assists in a 48 game season. How will he, his agent, and his GM (who'll try to move him) explain that one? Should there be a special asterisk beside that zero?

"*played really hard, learned how to back check, and rang the goal post like no other."

Kessel is not scoring and that is going to show when anyone reflects on his career.

Look at Belfour's career. Just before he became a leaf he had an off year with Dallas. Toronto fans were really skeptical and booed him when he didn't come out playing sharp.

Those little blips are actually bigger than you realize. Kessel will score, but will be hard pressed to score over 10 goals.
Not sure if this is a serious post?

You realize that GM's will have watched him play? His agent won't have to explain to anyone anything.

Agreed if ends up with 0 goals this season it could impact his value. Pigs will probably also fly out of his butt, his Agent can use that as an excuse for the lack of production.

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02-01-2013, 02:11 PM
  #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
So before the argument Kessel (Burke Supporters) would use was "Look at Kessels goals man" Look at his stats - he's Top6 scoring in NHL - he's like the best thing ever" Forget the teams results - forget the standings - it was all about Phils stats.

Now its ... "uhh look at him do the small things that are EXPECTED FROM EVERY PLAYER IN THE ****ING NHL"

I'm done talking about this with fanboys - you can all find me and apologize for your ignorance in a few weeks/months when Phil is traded - for significant assets that will help this team win.
Here is the list of players who scored more points then Kessel last year. I'll throw Crosby on there too because he was injured.

Player GP G A P
1 Evgeni Malkin 75 50 59 109
2 Steven Stamkos 82 60 37 97
3 Claude Giroux 77 28 65 93
4 Jason Spezza 80 34 50 84
5 Ilya Kovalchuk 77 37 46 83
6. Crosby

Now unless we trade Phil for any of these players, how are we benefiting the team in anyway?

Your rationality is insane man. I dont know who you expect to trade him for (aside from the guys above) who will help out the team more.

You have a personal vendetta against him and Burke, that's your only motive. Your saying to trade Kessel because he didn't get us to the playoffs last year. How the hell is that a fair assessment?

Hockey isn't Tennis. There's more the one player involved.

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02-01-2013, 02:13 PM
  #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McClements New A View Post
He's now on pace for 0 goals and 27 assists in a 48 game season. How will he, his agent, and his GM (who'll try to move him) explain that one? Should there be a special asterisk beside that zero?

"*played really hard, learned how to back check, and rang the goal post like no other."

Kessel is not scoring and that is going to show when anyone reflects on his career.

Look at Belfour's career. Just before he became a leaf he had an off year with Dallas. Toronto fans were really skeptical and booed him when he didn't come out playing sharp.

Those little blips are actually bigger than you realize. Kessel will score, but will be hard pressed to score over 10 goals.


whatafail

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02-01-2013, 02:24 PM
  #120
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whatafail
McClements was correct in his analysis. Kessel must score goals. That's why he gets paid so much. It's time to trade him for future talent that is closer to Kadri's age - the future core group.

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02-01-2013, 02:26 PM
  #121
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McClements was correct in his analysis. Kessel must score goals. That's why he gets paid so much. It's time to trade him for future talent that is closer to Kadri's age - the future core group.
LOL. Please tell me you know there's only a 3 year difference.

Did you know Kessel has never scored less than 30 goals for the Leafs?

You guys are hilarious

I swear to God we are the only team with fans who legitmately think we should trade a 25 year old top 10 scorer.

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02-01-2013, 02:29 PM
  #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
So before the argument Kessel (Burke Supporters)
Gettin' things started off with some hilarious false dichotomy. This is the "us vs them" mentality that makes this board so fun.

Quote:
would use was "Look at Kessels goals man" Look at his stats - he's Top6 scoring in NHL - he's like the best thing ever" Forget the teams results - forget the standings - it was all about Phils stats.
Alright, let's look at Phil's stats. Boxscore: 7gp 0g, 4A, 4pts, 33 shots. Not too bad, not that good either. Let's look at some other players with comparable stat lines:

Henrik Sedin VAN 7gp, 0g, 4A, 4pts, 8 shots
Nicklas Backstrom WSH 7gp, 0g 4A, 4pts, 10 shots
Alexander Ovechkin WSH 7gp, 2g, 1A, 3pts, 22 shots
Jeff Carter LAK 6gp, 3g, 0A, 3pts, 22 shots
Louis Eriksson DAL 7gp, 3g, 1A, 4pts, 17 shots
Claude Giroux PHI 7gp, 2g, 2A, 4pts, 12 shots
Ryan Nugent-Hopkins EDM 7gp, 0g, 5A, 5pts, 14 shots
Paul Stastny COL 7gp, 2g, 1A, 3pts, 17 shots
Mike Richards LAK 6gp, 0g, 2A, 2pts, 9 shots

Wow lot of familiar names that have gotten off to less than spectacular starts? So what does this tell us? Uh, I dunno, maybe that you should sit the **** down.

Quote:
Now its ... "uhh look at him do the small things that are EXPECTED FROM EVERY PLAYER IN THE ****ING NHL"

I'm done talking about this with fanboys - you can all find me and apologize for your ignorance in a few weeks/months when Phil is traded - for significant assets that will help this team win.
Oh yeah man I totally feel you. This is a losing culture; we need to fix that. Let's trade away Kessel and Phaneuf. And Connolly and Orr. And McClement. And Gunnarsson and Kulemin. And Grabovski. And probably Gardiner. There guys have all been part of the losing culture right? And then to be on the safe side, let's trade away Rielly; he's probably already been tainted. Let's just get rid of all of our players because the team was bad when they were here. And if those new guys don't succeed, let's blow it up for picks. And then let's call up the Marlies. And then when they suck, let's trade them away and call up our ECHL team. And then when they suck...

That's called a reductio ad absurdum. You take your argument to its logical conclusion and you can see how absurd and nonsensical it is.

TL;DR: 0/5 post, would not read again.

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02-01-2013, 02:31 PM
  #123
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenorDingDong View Post
Here is the list of players who scored more points then Kessel last year. I'll throw Crosby on there too because he was injured.

Player GP G A P
1 Evgeni Malkin 75 50 59 109
2 Steven Stamkos 82 60 37 97
3 Claude Giroux 77 28 65 93
4 Jason Spezza 80 34 50 84
5 Ilya Kovalchuk 77 37 46 83
6. Crosby

Now unless we trade Phil for any of these players, how are we benefiting the team in anyway?

Your rationality is insane man. I dont know who you expect to trade him for (aside from the guys above) who will help out the team more.

You have a personal vendetta against him and Burke, that's your only motive. Your saying to trade Kessel because he didn't get us to the playoffs last year. How the hell is that a fair assessment?

Hockey isn't Tennis. There's more the one player involved.
I will try and put this in a real life context since a lot of you have a difficult time separating your favorite players success from that of your favorite teams:

Right now Phil Kessel is a $25,000 espresso machine in a coffee shop that is bleeding money and is struggling to pay its bills. It also appears to be broken at the moment and will require additional resources to fix it ... When you first bought it you thought the coffee shop would be a lot busier. Its now been 4 years and its still not doing very well. What do you do?

The argument a lot of you are trying to suggest is that you are afraid customers will no longer buy ANY coffee AT ALL from you unless you have this amazing machine. But in the 'rational' world the correct thing to do for the future success of your business would be to trade that machine in - for a cheaper but still productive one - and maybe use the rest of funds to help pay off your line of credit/buy supplies and pay your employees. Maybe it makes more sense to spend that money on advertising your business - to get traffic though the doors - then when you get back in the red it might be worth looking into investing an expensive machine again.

Right now with Phil Kessel this team isn't bankrupt - but we have a lot of problems that need to be addressed ... the only cure many of you have is crossing your fingers and hoping that: A) A quality UFA will join - B) some mid-teir prospects will over-achieve or C) you're willing to trade off assets to keep Phil Kessel in the loop.

My solution to our:

Questionable Goaltending
Lack of Size/Grit upfront

Would be to trade Phil Kessel for a 1G + PWF with 25 goal capabilites. if we are fortunate enough to draft high again in this upcoming draft we look for our !C - with the horses we currently have in stable it shouldn't take a lot to fill out the lineup so that we can begin competiting on a consistent basis.

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02-01-2013, 02:36 PM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McClements New A View Post
He's now on pace for 0 goals and 27 assists in a 48 game season. How will he, his agent, and his GM (who'll try to move him) explain that one? Should there be a special asterisk beside that zero?

"*played really hard, learned how to back check, and rang the goal post like no other."

Kessel is not scoring and that is going to show when anyone reflects on his career.

Look at Belfour's career. Just before he became a leaf he had an off year with Dallas. Toronto fans were really skeptical and booed him when he didn't come out playing sharp.

Those little blips are actually bigger than you realize. Kessel will score, but will be hard pressed to score over 10 goals.

Are you that dense?

Last year Giroux went 12 games without a goal. Nash went 7 twice. Seguin went 10. Spezza went 11. Gaborik went 8. Kovalchuk went 9. Carter 10. Ryan 8.

THEIR CAREERS ARE OVER!

The stupidity in here is beyond belief, I can't take this anymore.

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02-01-2013, 02:39 PM
  #125
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Quote:
Originally Posted by McClements New A View Post
He's now on pace for 0 goals and 27 assists in a 48 game season. How will he, his agent, and his GM (who'll try to move him) explain that one? Should there be a special asterisk beside that zero?

"*played really hard, learned how to back check, and rang the goal post like no other."

Kessel is not scoring and that is going to show when anyone reflects on his career.

Look at Belfour's career. Just before he became a leaf he had an off year with Dallas. Toronto fans were really skeptical and booed him when he didn't come out playing sharp.

Those little blips are actually bigger than you realize. Kessel will score, but will be hard pressed to score over 10 goals.

Iginla has 0 goals in 5 games so far. He's approaching the "reflects poorly on his career, agent will have to squeeze some GM to give him more than a couple million bucks" territory!

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