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Schenn and Couturier vs. Henrique and Larsson

View Poll Results: Schenn, Couts vs Henrique, Larsson
Flyers duo 28 26.67%
Devils duo 77 73.33%
Voters: 105. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-01-2013, 11:59 AM
  #26
Sasso09
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Originally Posted by lboogie42 View Post
parise and kovalchuk had absolutely no chemistry together and looked terrible when playing on the same line. henrique was the glue to that line.
Then explain why he scored 18 less points than Parise and 32 less points than Kovalchuk? Glue??

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02-01-2013, 12:03 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by lboogie42 View Post
weakest player? 52 pts i his rookie season and hes the weakest player? i beg to differ. this duo basically comes down to henrique and couturier. because larssons arguably the best here and will be moving forward. but i see henriques game to continue to improve. he has years ahead of him and will be a solid 65-70 pt guy while playing great defense. IMO anyway
LOL @ Henrique becoming a 65-70 PT player. Henrique Was a 22 year old Rookie, that's about as impressive as what Matt Read did his rookie year with far less ice time and linemates ( still outscored him) Henrique is more comparable to Read than he is to Couturier. Larsson the best moving Forward? Based on what?? He's the least accomplished player of the 4, and based on potential I put him 2nd behind couturier.


Current:

Henrique
Couturier
Schenn
Larsson

Future:

Couturier
Larsson
Schenn
Henrique

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02-01-2013, 12:04 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Sasso09 View Post
Then explain why he scored 18 less points than Parise and 32 less points than Kovalchuk? Glue??
cuz he was a rookie? maybe hat has something to do with it? not to mention the fact that parise and kovy are all stars, so its not a suprise that a rookie, scored less points then them. especially kovy who was 4th in scoring. it may sound like im overrating him here. but im just trying to give my opinion on why i think henrique is the better then couturier

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02-01-2013, 12:07 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Sasso09 View Post
LOL @ Henrique becoming a 65-70 PT player. Henrique Was a 22 year old Rookie, that's about as impressive as what Matt Read did his rookie year with far less ice time and linemates ( still outscored him) Henrique is more comparable to Read than he is to Couturier. Larsson the best moving Forward? Based on what?? He's the least accomplished player of the 4, and based on potential I put him 2nd behind couturier.
idk if u have ever watched the devs. but for half of the season last year, larsson was the devils #1 dman. hes very solid on both sides of the puck. hes been compared to lidstrom(tho he is far away from that) at the age of 19.

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02-01-2013, 12:15 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by lboogie42 View Post
idk if u have ever watched the devs. but for half of the season last year, larsson was the devils #1 dman. hes very solid on both sides of the puck. hes been compared to lidstrom(tho he is far away from that) at the age of 19.
How was he their #1 defenseman half the year when he didn't even make the starting playoff roster...

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02-01-2013, 12:26 PM
  #31
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How was he their #1 defenseman half the year when he didn't even make the starting playoff roster...
thats why i said half the season. he was the best dman they had up to his injury. he missed like 10 games. when he came back from injury he never looked the same. he made his season premiere last night and looked very solid. he set up a sweet goal, but i dont think he got the assists. he will be the devils best defensman in the future. u can ask any devils fan that and they will say he'll be our #1 dman after a few years

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02-01-2013, 12:31 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by lboogie42 View Post
are u on drugs???? henriques ceiling is way higher. he almost won the calder last year at a very young age. not to mention his clutch ability. Henrique>couturier.
Lol henrique was one of the oldest finalists in the Calder running. Couturier is 2 years younger than him also

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02-01-2013, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Sasso09 View Post
Lol at the Henrique love, he's the weakest player going forward of the 4. Flyers duo for me just because of Couturier, he has the highest upside.
You couldn't be more wrong. The correct answer would be Larsson and it's not that close.

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02-01-2013, 12:38 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Sasso09 View Post
LOL @ Henrique becoming a 65-70 PT player. Henrique Was a 22 year old Rookie, that's about as impressive as what Matt Read did his rookie year with far less ice time and linemates ( still outscored him) Henrique is more comparable to Read than he is to Couturier. Larsson the best moving Forward? Based on what?? He's the least accomplished player of the 4, and based on potential I put him 2nd behind couturier.


Current:

Henrique
Couturier
Schenn
Larsson

Future:

Couturier
Larsson
Schenn
Henrique
well Larsson is a smooth skating, puck moving 6'3 220 lb defenseman who was nearly drafted first overall in his draft year...yes the oilers were deciding on RNH or Larsson. Played in 2 WJHC putting up 8 points in 12 games as a defenseman. D-take longer to develop but in most circles Larsson is seen to have a higher upside than Couturier.

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02-01-2013, 12:39 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by 19NYSports91 View Post
You couldn't be more wrong. The correct answer would be Larsson and it's not that close.
this

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02-01-2013, 12:44 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Sasso09 View Post
LOL @ Henrique becoming a 65-70 PT player. Henrique Was a 22 year old Rookie, that's about as impressive as what Matt Read did his rookie year with far less ice time and linemates ( still outscored him) Henrique is more comparable to Read than he is to Couturier.
Henrique put up 51 points playing in 74 games last year. Had he played a full 82 he could have had 55-57 points. That was as a 21/22 year old in his rookie year. How exactly is projecting Henrique to eventually be a 65 point player laughable?

And how on earth is a 22 year old center more comparable to a 26 year old winger? Henrique will have 5 full seasons under his belt by the time he's 26. Coming into the league at 21 somehow made Henrique an "old" rookie?

Are you aware that Henrique also ended two series on the Devils way to the SCF? One in a game 7 OT and one in the ECF. Take a look at his career in the OHL too. That "clutch" reputation has been well earned.

He also had 4 short-handed goals last year...

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02-01-2013, 12:46 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by lboogie42 View Post
cuz he was a rookie? maybe hat has something to do with it? not to mention the fact that parise and kovy are all stars, so its not a suprise that a rookie, scored less points then them. especially kovy who was 4th in scoring. it may sound like im overrating him here. but im just trying to give my opinion on why i think henrique is the better then couturier
But, didn't YOU just state that Parise and Kovy had no chemistry and that Henrique was the glue?? The numbers don't support these claims. Couturier at 18 and given his role was much more impressive to me than Henrique was at 21/22 in his Privlegded role. Like I said Henrique is more comparable to Matt Read than he is to Couturier

Henrique:
21/22 years old rookie year
16 goals
35 assist
51 points in 74 games (.69 PPG)
+8 on 1st line
ATOI 18:09
PP/Game 1:38
SH/Game 1:47
Most common linemates Kovy ( 1.08 PPG) and Parise (.84 PPG)
Henrique scored .69 PPG while his linemates averaged .96... That's being carried

Read:
25 years old rookie year
24 goals
23 assist
47 points in 79 games .60 PPG)
+13 on 3rd line
ATOI 17:03
PP/Game 2:25
SH/Game 2:35
Most Common linemates Couturier .35 PPG and Simmonds (.60 PPG)
Read scored .60 PPG while his linemates averaged .47 PPG


In summary Read scored at better rate Per 60 than Henrique during ES+PP with much lesser linemates, he also played a minute more of PK per game, was better defensively ( look at defensive stats, they back that up despite Devils fans hyping up Henriques defense, Read was the 2nd best defensive forward for Philly last year going by what I saw and Advanced defensive stats) Reads a much better Goal scorer than Henrique, even without Kovy and Parise setting him up.

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02-01-2013, 12:47 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by KidLine93 View Post
Lol henrique was one of the oldest finalists in the Calder running. Couturier is 2 years younger than him also
Yeah, Couturier is 20 and Henrique will be 23 in a few days.

Couturier: 2011 draft

Henrique: 2008 draft

That plays a huge role, obviously.

Considering that they almost had the same goal totals, but Henrique had almost 20 more assists is more of a testament towards their linemates, rather than skill level.

Couturier is a better playmaker than goal scorer as well. Couturier would have undoubtedly put up much better numbers if he was put in a more offensive role with better players like Henrique.

Reference: Offensive Zone Start Percentages

Henrique: 47%
Couturier: 40%

Funny thing is, they both put up identical P/60 (points per 60 minutes while at even-strength) at 1.81. And that is with Couturier getting a lot less offensive zone starts, and with vastly inferior linemates.

As we all know, Henrique's most prevalent linemates last year were: Kovalchuk & Parise.

Couturier's were: Max Talbot and Zac Rinaldo.


Some food for thought

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02-01-2013, 12:53 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Sasso09 View Post
How was he their #1 defenseman half the year when he didn't even make the starting playoff roster...
Your posts suggest you've watch very few if any Devils and Flyers games.

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02-01-2013, 12:57 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by devs4L View Post
Henrique put up 51 points playing in 74 games last year. Had he played a full 82 he could have had 55-57 points. That was as a 21/22 year old in his rookie year. How exactly is projecting Henrique to eventually be a 65 point player laughable?

And how on earth is a 22 year old center more comparable to a 26 year old winger? Henrique will have 5 full seasons under his belt by the time he's 26. Coming into the league at 21 somehow made Henrique an "old" rookie?

Are you aware that Henrique also ended two series on the Devils way to the SCF? One in a game 7 OT and one in the ECF. Take a look at his career in the OHL too. That "clutch" reputation has been well earned.

He also had 4 short-handed goals last year...
Henrique will score at a much slower pace this year and next without Parise, he's not going to improve his numbers for a long time. Center vs Winger has nothing to do with it because Read is better offensively and defensively at this point.... Really? OHL? Why not look at the AHL this year??

Short sample size but Read has 3 goals and 1 assist in 7 games in the NHL this year, Henrique had 8 points in 16 Games.... He scored at a .50 PPG in the AHL, the same AHL that Schenn and Couturier just posted at a PPG in.

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02-01-2013, 12:57 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Sasso09 View Post
But, didn't YOU just state that Parise and Kovy had no chemistry and that Henrique was the glue?? The numbers don't support these claims. Couturier at 18 and given his role was much more impressive to me than Henrique was at 21/22 in his Privlegded role. Like I said Henrique is more comparable to Matt Read than he is to Couturier

Henrique:
21/22 years old rookie year
16 goals
35 assist
51 points in 74 games (.69 PPG)
+8 on 1st line
ATOI 18:09
PP/Game 1:38
SH/Game 1:47
Most common linemates Kovy ( 1.08 PPG) and Parise (.84 PPG)
Henrique scored .69 PPG while his linemates averaged .96... That's being carried

Read:
25 years old rookie year
24 goals
23 assist
47 points in 79 games .60 PPG)
+13 on 3rd line
ATOI 17:03
PP/Game 2:25
SH/Game 2:35
Most Common linemates Couturier .35 PPG and Simmonds (.60 PPG)
Read scored .60 PPG while his linemates averaged .47 PPG


In summary Read scored at better rate Per 60 than Henrique during ES+PP with much lesser linemates, he also played a minute more of PK per game, was better defensively ( look at defensive stats, they back that up despite Devils fans hyping up Henriques defense, Read was the 2nd best defensive forward for Philly last year going by what I saw and Advanced defensive stats) Reads a much better Goal scorer than Henrique, even without Kovy and Parise setting him up.
im not saying henrique is more impressive now. im saying that henrique will be the better player in 3-5 years. not to mention, henriques defense is great. he also works hard for the pcuk. also i dont care what anyone says, henrique's ability in the clutch makes him wayy more valuable then either of the flyers.

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02-01-2013, 01:00 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by oofrostonoo View Post
Your posts suggest you've watch very few if any Devils and Flyers games.
I watch a very large amount of Atlantic division hockey, outside of the Hawks I watch Flyers, devils, pens and Rangers the most by far, I went to college in Philly and watched pretty much every hockey game in the region while I lived there... Thanks for the assumptions though.. Was I not correct in stating that Larsson didn't make the initial playoff roster or are you just butthurt about this fact? I think it's the latter.

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02-01-2013, 01:04 PM
  #43
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I take Larsson over Schenn and Couturier.

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02-01-2013, 01:05 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by lboogie42 View Post
im not saying henrique is more impressive now. im saying that henrique will be the better player in 3-5 years. not to mention, henriques defense is great. he also works hard for the pcuk. also i dont care what anyone says, henrique's ability in the clutch makes him wayy more valuable then either of the flyers.
Oh do tell me more..... couturier is 3 years younger, Schenn 2 years younger, both of those guys have undoubtedly higher ceilings and were top 10 draft picks. Couturier at 22 will be a much better player than Henrique is right now, I'd bet the house on that. You saying Henrique is going to be better than Couturier and Schenn going forward is exactly the same thing as a flyers fan saying Read is going to be better than Henrique going forward.

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02-01-2013, 01:06 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by tycobb View Post
I take Larsson over Schenn and Couturier.
Schenn yes, Couturier, absolutely not.

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02-01-2013, 01:07 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Sasso09 View Post
Schenn yes, Couturier, absolutely not.
Larsson going to be an elite defenseman in the NHL for many, many years. I am saying I rather have Larsson than both Schenn and Couturier on my team. Even if Couturier looks like the making of a great defensive first C.

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02-01-2013, 01:09 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Sasso09 View Post
Henrique will score at a much slower pace this year and next without Parise, he's not going to improve his numbers for a long time. Center vs Winger has nothing to do with it because Read is better offensively and defensively at this point.... Really? OHL? Why not look at the AHL this year??

Short sample size but Read has 3 goals and 1 assist in 7 games in the NHL this year, Henrique had 8 points in 16 Games.... He scored at a .50 PPG in the AHL, the same AHL that Schenn and Couturier just posted at a PPG in.
I strongly disagree with everything you've said to this point, and i don't think I'm alone. Center vs Winger has EVERYTHING to do with it. Completely different responsibilities and skill sets. Read being the better defensive player is highly debatable and suggests further that you've seen very little if any of Henrique's games in the NHL.

The OHL reference was to help support Henrique being considered an extremely clutch player. In other words, he's done it his whole career. And I'm glad you've peaked into the future and saw what henrique's production will be...

Oh, and henrique has played 1 game this year and has 1 goal. Yay small sample sizes!!

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02-01-2013, 01:12 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by Sasso09 View Post
Oh do tell me more..... couturier is 3 years younger, Schenn 2 years younger, both of those guys have undoubtedly higher ceilings and were top 10 draft picks. Couturier at 22 will be a much better player than Henrique is right now, I'd bet the house on that. You saying Henrique is going to be better than Couturier and Schenn going forward is exactly the same thing as a flyers fan saying Read is going to be better than Henrique going forward.

that whole thing about draft picks is dumb. Did u know that bernier was drafted the very pick before parise. and berniers career has been very unimpressive. up until he came to nj anyway.
Just because henrique is a mere 3 years older, doesnt mean he wont be better then couturier in 3-5 years. its three years. come on. henrique has plenty of time to develop as a #1 center. even if it is 3 years less then couturier. we should have this discussion in a few years. we are comparing the 1st seasons of these players. give it some time....

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02-01-2013, 01:12 PM
  #49
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Larsson going to be an elite defenseman in the NHL for many, many years. I am saying I rather have Larsson than both Schenn and Couturier on my team. Even if Couturier looks like the making of a great defensive first C.
what exactly are you watching in Larsson to make these claims? The kid has really good potential but I don't see how you can confidently say he will be an Elite defenseman, he hasn't shown a single Glimpse of that yet at the NHL level. Couturier has undoubtedly proved himself more at the NHL level already.

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02-01-2013, 01:13 PM
  #50
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that whole thing about draft picks is dumb. Did u know that bernier was drafted the very pick before parise. and berniers career has been very unimpressive. up until he came to nj anyway.
Just because henrique is a mere 3 years older, doesnt mean he wont be better then couturier in 3-5 years. its three years. come on. henrique has plenty of time to develop as a #1 center. even if it is 3 years less then couturier. we should have this discussion in a few years. we are comparing the 1st seasons of these players. give it some time....
Really? Because Larssons draft status is the only reason Devils fans are calling Larsson an " Elite defenseman for years and years"

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