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Isles over Devs 5-4 (OT)

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Old
02-01-2013, 09:56 AM
  #201
Devils86
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I would MUCH rather have Butler or Darche take those minutes . Just because a guy doesnt fall down everytime he touches the puck like Cam doesnt mean he can play. Barch is a terrible hockey player, just not quite as bad as Cam.


Last edited by Cowbell232: 02-01-2013 at 10:04 AM.
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02-01-2013, 10:00 AM
  #202
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Listen guys, debate the points. Don't make fun of posters opinions, debate them.

I'm going to stand for this place to be turned into posters just calling people out. Call out the points. This generalized "xyz tells me all I need to know" is ********. You're making proving any point better than the first person then.

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02-01-2013, 10:04 AM
  #203
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell232 View Post
My review of the game?

When your previous year's playoff fourth line becomes your third line, and is still your best of the night, you'll have problems.

My review of the season so far?

We're getting points. We're learning from our mistakes. We're making new mistakes. We're rotating players in and out.

Lou usually waits 20 games to "see what he's got", right? Usually about a 1/4 season. By my guess, we'll see a similar thing this at the 10-game mark then. This is why Henrique and Larsson will be in and out of the line up, to see what the whole shebang looks like. Somewhere between game 10 and 15, I imagine you'll see a shakeup if things aren't on the improve.

But, all in all, we're playing terribly and putting points on the board. Could be worse, could be worse.
holla at cha brother

CGBG being our top line last year was why we couldn't finish the 4th round off as champs. That can't persist this year. We need them to be the complementary scoring that they are intended to be. If that means we need to give a top winger to the top line then do it. Ideally Clarkson is on the 3rd line with Jo and CGBG is the 4th. That SHOULD make the playoff lineup dynamic as hell.

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02-01-2013, 10:06 AM
  #204
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Again, an NHL coach and GM both sent Butler down for a reason and have yet to give Darche a contract.

Maybe... just maybe.. they know something we don't?
Any player. who in a shortened season. that can only get on the ice for 4 minutes IS a liability. Except for a few select games why are we dressing a goon. Have I seen Butler and Darche play this year no but I have seen then play before and they are better players. IMO.

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02-01-2013, 10:10 AM
  #205
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Missed the game last night and watching the DVR'd version. From what I noticed the Devils were much better 5 on 5 then the Islanders. The Devils had 3 even strength goals to there 1 to the point where I'm at in the game (end of the 2nd period). Now, if only they stayed out of the damn box, the game seems like it would have ended MUCH differently. What happened to the discipline? It seems like every game, this team is taking TOO many penalties and it finally caught up to them. Can't keep killing off 5 penalties a game.

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02-01-2013, 10:10 AM
  #206
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it just occurred to me that literally every forward has changed positions at least once. I think. maybe a few didn't but most did? are we going to see henrique center a line with zajac on the left wing and kovy on the right? how far is he going to go with this? brodeur plays defense? how about clarkson in goal? he seems to be doing this on purpose, and I'm sure kovys well aware. I get the feeling PDB will put his nut sack on the LW just to keep him over on the right.

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02-01-2013, 10:16 AM
  #207
Cowbell232
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Originally Posted by Devils86 View Post
Any player. who in a shortened season. that can only get on the ice for 4 minutes IS a liability. Except for a few select games why are we dressing a goon. Have I seen Butler and Darche play this year no but I have seen then play before and they are better players. IMO.
How do you determine the length of time a player becomes a liability?

I usually loathe advanced metrics to determine player values, but I find offensive v. defensive zone face off starts to be telling of a coaches faith in a player, and their TOI can be reflective of that. If we have a very high number of defensive zone draws, it will limit a defensive liability like Barch, for example.

Likewise, if we have a high amount of PP or PK time, you'll also see special teams on the ice for lengthy amounts of time. And a guy like Kovy can float on the PP for 2 minutes at a clip no problem, that will naturally reduce a non-special team player like, Barch...

I think as long as the top three lines are getting minutes with out an extreme deviation, the fourth line shouldn't be greatly used until we have a great fourth line like last year's run.

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02-01-2013, 10:19 AM
  #208
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02-01-2013, 10:19 AM
  #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DevilChuk View Post
What??

We beat Philly.. and the Islanders.. and the Canadiens.

All three teams have at least two wins... the Islanders have 4.

EDIT: Capitals, not Canadiens.
He means teams that had not yet recorded a win at the time we played them.

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02-01-2013, 10:34 AM
  #210
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell232 View Post
How do you determine the length of time a player becomes a liability?

I usually loathe advanced metrics to determine player values, but I find offensive v. defensive zone face off starts to be telling of a coaches faith in a player, and their TOI can be reflective of that. If we have a very high number of defensive zone draws, it will limit a defensive liability like Barch, for example.

Likewise, if we have a high amount of PP or PK time, you'll also see special teams on the ice for lengthy amounts of time. And a guy like Kovy can float on the PP for 2 minutes at a clip no problem, that will naturally reduce a non-special team player like, Barch...

I think as long as the top three lines are getting minutes with out an extreme deviation, the fourth line shouldn't be greatly used until we have a great fourth line like last year's run.
In a 82 game season I would agree with you. The game situation can determine TOI to some extent but I would argue the lower the skill set on the ice the more the puck will be in our zone. You cant look at this like a regular season, attrition will be a huge factor this year. If you constantly have players who are only getting 4 -5 minutes of ice time this year I think these teams are really going to feel that come game 35. My point wasnt specifically about Barch. altho I think hes just a goon, more the fact that any player like him becomes a liability in a 48 game season.

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02-01-2013, 11:18 AM
  #211
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that was such a weird game.

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02-01-2013, 11:35 AM
  #212
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Lou makes his evaluations in ten-game increments. He doesn't believe you can get a real grasp on anything in less than ten games. We'll start seeing player moves no sooner than four games from now.

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02-01-2013, 11:39 AM
  #213
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Lou makes his evaluations in ten-game increments. He doesn't believe you can get a real grasp on anything in less than ten games. We'll start seeing player moves no sooner than four games from now.
Agreed. It would have to take an idiot GM to offer the world for one of our players right now. If Lou feels Urbom is NHL ready - I think he moves a D man for the best offer.

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02-01-2013, 11:41 AM
  #214
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For your afternoon delight, Ryan Jahnke breaks down all the questions the Devils need to answer six games into the season.

http://wp.me/p347yn-fH

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02-01-2013, 11:52 AM
  #215
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Who is Ryan Jahnke?

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02-01-2013, 11:59 AM
  #216
Cowbell232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell232 View Post
Somewhere between game 10 and 15, I imagine you'll see a shakeup if things aren't on the improve.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Classic Devil View Post
Lou makes his evaluations in ten-game increments. He doesn't believe you can get a real grasp on anything in less than ten games. We'll start seeing player moves no sooner than four games from now.
Is there in an echo in here?

Now that two of us said it, it must be true.

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02-01-2013, 12:00 PM
  #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cowbell232 View Post
Is there in an echo in here?

Now that two of us said it, it must be true.
Watch he trades Tallinder tomorrow.

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02-01-2013, 12:02 PM
  #218
Cowbell232
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Watch he trades Tallinder tomorrow.
Unless someone comes to him with an insane offer, he's waiting AT LEAST 10 games into the year. I mean, Lou surprises me from time to time, but that would be a REAL shock.

I'm just concerned that the resilience of this team to keep putting up points in terribly played games might lend itself to a little time, to let the chips fall.

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02-01-2013, 01:13 PM
  #219
Wingman77
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Lou did say earlier or prior to this season that he would be cutting his evaluation mark from the usual first 20 to the first 10

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02-01-2013, 01:15 PM
  #220
CerebralGenesis
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Ya he said he's going to observe for 10 games before pulling the trigger. Can't wait

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02-01-2013, 01:19 PM
  #221
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We is undefeated (sort of)!

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02-01-2013, 01:21 PM
  #222
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You can see Lou has already started cleaning house a little bit. Tedenby was gone after 4 games, and Janssen (Which I thought should have happened after camp) waived. That was a huge surprise too. I figured if Janssen started the season up, then there was no way he gets waived later on. I thought there was a chance we would see another minor thing happen again today, but I'd say that might come after this weekends games.

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02-01-2013, 01:31 PM
  #223
Wingman77
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I've liked what we've seen from Barch

Unlike Boulton and Janssen, this guy doesn't look like he's skating in mud he's got nice speed for a goon

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02-01-2013, 01:34 PM
  #224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingman77 View Post
I've liked what we've seen from Barch

Unlike Boulton and Janssen, this guy doesn't look like he's skating in mud he's got nice speed for a goon
I actually like what I've seen from him too. I wish we could still get CBGB back as the 4th line for most games, but Barch is alright with me.

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02-01-2013, 01:40 PM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Wingman77 View Post
I've liked what we've seen from Barch

Unlike Boulton and Janssen, this guy doesn't look like he's skating in mud he's got nice speed for a goon
He also takes his time and doesn`t force plays.

Can`t win a fight to save his life, but still. Finally a goon that can play.

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