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Old
02-01-2013, 11:39 AM
  #151
Inferno
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The Rangers are going to buy out a guy who's playing at a PPG pace?

Seriously?

What's next...trade Gaborik? John Tortorella for Adams/Fire Torts threads?


Sometimes I really hate Ranger fans.

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02-01-2013, 11:41 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
And I dont want this thread to continue going off the rails that he needs to be traded or anything crazy. I hope he turns it up like he did last season. We'll see. But man, when hes struggling out there, it just seems like its more noticeable than most players - I cant quite put my finger on why.

Anyway, like I said, the "Hes 22, give him a break" **** isnt going to fly with me this season. He has 2 solid seasons under his belt and is now the 2C on an upper-echelon team. He needs to play better, period.

Part of that is on him, and part of that is on Torts. Step could use a lifeline on the wing one of these days.
I think the reason it's so noticeable is because his skating is so effing ugly. i mean, he's got the most recognizeable stride in the NHL, it looks like how I skated....like 2 weeks after learning how to skate.

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02-01-2013, 12:13 PM
  #153
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I really don't think we need offense. Get some depth guys that can play a checking role, and chip in offensively once in a while, fill out the bottom 6. #5 or #6 defenseman so Bickel can be off the roster. Maybe give Eminger another try, see what Gilroy's learned in Tampa. The offense from our Top 6 will come. People will start finding chemistry both in even strength and on the powerplay.

The people that are chasing Stepan off the team and demanding we get a 60+ pt player for the 2nd line are out of their minds. We don't need it, and furthermore, we're not going to get it.

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Old
02-01-2013, 12:24 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by Inferno View Post
The Rangers are going to buy out a guy who's playing at a PPG pace?

Seriously?

What's next...trade Gaborik? John Tortorella for Adams/Fire Torts threads?


Sometimes I really hate Ranger fans.




Yeah, like, most of this season so far.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. There was a small camp, no preseason and the team had a lot of turnover. It seems pretty obvious to me that that's why they're struggling. All of this "fire torts, trade stepan, buy out richards" ranting is absolutely idiotic.

The system sucks and stifles creativity... never mind that that Gaborik, Richards, Callahan, MDZ and even Stepan to a degree, had solid years on offense last year. Never mind that the team was 1st in the east and made it to the ECF. That entire season, which started and unfolded like every season in recent memory, must be the anomaly, not this season, that's only 7 games in and started under extremely unusual circumstances. Right.

The big guns aren't showing up...never mind that Gaborik is over a PPG, and Nash, Richards and MDZ have 6 points in 7 games. Trade everyone!

Seriously, every time I log on and read through a few pages of threads I end up facepalming and signing out. This season has been absolutely unbearable so far. I mean the whining around here way more than I mean the streaky play.

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Old
02-01-2013, 12:58 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by haveandare View Post
[/B]


Yeah, like, most of this season so far.

I feel like I'm taking crazy pills. There was a small camp, no preseason and the team had a lot of turnover. It seems pretty obvious to me that that's why they're struggling. All of this "fire torts, trade stepan, buy out richards" ranting is absolutely idiotic.

The system sucks and stifles creativity... never mind that that Gaborik, Richards, Callahan, MDZ and even Stepan to a degree, had solid years on offense last year. Never mind that the team was 1st in the east and made it to the ECF. That entire season, which started and unfolded like every season in recent memory, must be the anomaly, not this season, that's only 7 games in and started under extremely unusual circumstances. Right.

The big guns aren't showing up...never mind that Gaborik is over a PPG, and Nash, Richards and MDZ have 6 points in 7 games. Trade everyone!

Seriously, every time I log on and read through a few pages of threads I end up facepalming and signing out. This season has been absolutely unbearable so far. I mean the whining around here way more than I mean the streaky play.
Many of the issues people are calling out have existed for much longer than these 7 games. That said, the people in the trade Stepan and fire Torts crowds need to step back from the ledge a bit. It has been said for years, however, that this system stifles creativity. It doesn't mean it doesn't work, but it is a valid criticism of the Torts brand of hockey we have. However, saying "this team" was in the ECF last year and first in the East is a fallacy. Only in name is it true. There has been a good amount of roster turnover; this team hasn't proven anything. The team that made it to the ECF was actually a deeper team than this one, and it had a much stronger identity and played a specific system to near perfection. The reason it didn't make the SCF is probably because it ran out of gas by burning out its top players, especially on defense, with huge minutes down the stretch. That's an issue that looks not only to continue this season, but actually be worse as we are thinner up front and we're still playing our top two pairings 50 minutes a night. But this team not only lacks depth, it lacks that adhesion to the system that made it successful in years past. Yes, absolutely, part of that is the new pieces needing time to pick it up and perfect it. But part of it was that the pieces were the right pieces last year. Asham is never going replace Prust. Pyatt's role is different from any role that was played last year. This is not the same team that was so close to the SCF; all bets are off.

And moreover, it's more than likely, and I have been suggesting from the get go, that while this team IS a good hockey team, we over-performed last season. Hagelin is not going to produce at the rate he did last season. Callahan had a career year; I will bet someone a Rangers jersey that when Callahan retires we will look back on '11-12 as his best offensive season. Dubinsky, who people were happy to be rid of, had a career worst year. Yeah, now he's in Columbus, it will be hard to judge his offensive stats and he may continue not to produce, but he had been a very strong contributor for us every year until last. Kreider still has every chance in the world to be a good player for us, not just in the future, but later this year when he's healthy. That said, he's not going to light up the world like we hoped and he's not really as ready as we thought. I'd like to see him get legitimate top-six minutes because I think that's the only way to gauge if he's really going to be effective this year or not; playing him on the third line, as it's assembled, is a waste. That all said, Richards is a year older and, while still plenty good, we can hardly expect him to get better. Some of our guys over-performed and other guys (Dubi) we underestimated the importance of because they under performed. We lost center depth, and overall forward depth, and we have some unresolved issues that really should have been addressed in the off-season.

After the playoff game where Bickel played 3 minutes in a night where Girardi and McDonagh were forced to play over 50 each (OT game in round 2) it should have been clear and obvious that we would be adding a d-man in the offseason. Somehow, we didn't. Why? Rupp and Asham put forth noble efforts and Rupp is a likable guy and probably a great teammate, but both are past their sell-by dates. Signing Brashear was a mistake. We followed it up by signing Boogard, which was a mistake. We followed it up by signing Rupp, which was a mistake and he's still here and somehow we signed Asham but not that important #6 dman. Why? None of them panned out. It should be obvious that the Prust/Ferriero mold (younger, faster) is what works for Torts' system and the old, slow guys are not a solution for us but it, apparently, isn't. Why? There are genuine issues that exist with this team. I hear you when you say you can't stand our fanbase right now and people are crazy. But that's also not to say you can dismiss some of the genuine arguments that are being made and that have been presented going back to last year and beyond.


Last edited by SERE 24: 02-01-2013 at 01:06 PM.
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Old
02-01-2013, 01:13 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
Many of the issues people are calling out have existed for much longer than these 7 games. That said, the people in the trade Stepan and fire Torts crowds need to step back from the ledge a bit. It has been said for years, however, that this system stifles creativity. It doesn't mean it doesn't work, but it is a valid criticism of the Torts brand of hockey we have. However, saying "this team" was in the ECF last year and first in the East is a fallacy. Only in name is it true. There has been a good amount of roster turnover; this team hasn't proven anything. The team that made it to the ECF was actually a deeper team than this one, and it had a much stronger identity and played a specific system to near perfection. The reason it didn't make the SCF is probably because it ran out of gas by burning out its top players, especially on defense, with huge minutes down the stretch. That's an issue that looks not only to continue this season, but actually be worse as we are thinner up front and we're still playing our top two pairings 50 minutes a night. But this team not only lacks depth, it lacks that adhesion to the system that made it successful in years past. Yes, absolutely, part of that is the new pieces needing time to pick it up and perfect it. But part of it was that the pieces were the right pieces last year. Asham is never going replace Prust. Pyatt's role is different from any role that was played last year. This is not the same team that was so close to the SCF; all bets are off.

And moreover, it's more than likely, and I have been suggesting from the get go, that while this team IS a good hockey team, we over-performed last season. Hagelin is not going to produce at the rate he did last season. Callahan had a career year; I will bet someone a Rangers jersey that when Callahan retires we will look back on '11-12 as his best offensive season. Dubinsky, who people were happy to be rid of, had a career worst year. Yeah, now he's in Columbus, it will be hard to judge his offensive stats and he may continue not to produce, but he had been a very strong contributor for us every year until last. Kreider still has every chance in the world to be a good player for us, not just in the future, but later this year when he's healthy. That said, he's not going to light up the world like we hoped and he's not really as ready as we thought. I'd like to see him get legitimate top-six minutes because I think that's the only way to gauge if he's really going to be effective this year or not; playing him on the third line, as it's assembled, is a waste. That all said, Richards is a year older and, while still plenty good, we can hardly expect him to get better. Some of our guys over-performed and other guys (Dubi) we underestimated the importance of because they under performed. We lost center depth, and overall forward depth, and we have some unresolved issues that really should have been addressed in the off-season.

After the playoff game where Bickel played 3 minutes in a night where Girardi and McDonagh were forced to play over 50 each (OT game in round 2) it should have been clear and obvious that we would be adding a d-man in the offseason. Somehow, we didn't. Why? Rupp and Asham put forth noble efforts and Rupp is a likable guy and probably a great teammate, but both are past their sell-by dates. Signing Brashear was a mistake. We followed it up by signing Boogard, which was a mistake. We followed it up by signing Rupp, which was a mistake and he's still here and somehow we signed Asham but not that important #6 dman. Why? None of them panned out. It should be obvious that the Prust/Ferriero mold (younger, faster) is what works for Torts' system and the old, slow guys are not a solution for us but it, apparently, isn't. Why? There are genuine issues that exist with this team. I hear you when you say you can't stand our fanbase right now and people are crazy. But that's also not to say you can dismiss some of the genuine arguments that are being made and that have been presented going back to last year and beyond.
Which free agent defenseman did you want the Rangers to sign last summer?

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Old
02-01-2013, 01:18 PM
  #157
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Which free agent defenseman did you want the Rangers to sign last summer?
Aucoin, Hannan, Bouillon, Carkner. Any of them would be able to at least play 10 minutes a night.

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02-01-2013, 01:25 PM
  #158
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I think the reason it's so noticeable is because his skating is so effing ugly. i mean, he's got the most recognizeable stride in the NHL, it looks like how I skated....like 2 weeks after learning how to skate.
Thats certainly part of it and likely always will be. To compound the issue when hes playing poorly everything else about him becomes slow too. His decision making, which is usually a strength, has been particularly slow and problematic.

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Old
02-01-2013, 01:42 PM
  #159
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Anybody else think the Rangers should have claimed Boychuk? I admittedly dont know a lot about him but he cant be worse then our current 6th and 7th dmen, could he???

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02-01-2013, 01:43 PM
  #160
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Boychuk didn't reach them.

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02-01-2013, 01:45 PM
  #161
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Anybody else think the Rangers should have claimed Boychuk? I admittedly dont know a lot about him but he cant be worse then our current 6th and 7th dmen, could he???
You're thinking of Johnny Boychuk who is a very good 2nd pairing d-man in Boston (and wouldn't be on waivers now). Zach Boychuk, the undersized forward who can't crack the NHL, from Carolina was on waivers, and he never made it to us. He got claimed before we had a shot. We likely would have taken him as he's better than dressing Bickel as a forward.

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02-01-2013, 02:51 PM
  #162
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Jussi Jokinen

What do you guys think of this forward core? What would it take to get him from Carolina? I proposed this in another thread and got ripped for it, interested to see what the majority thinks.

Gaborik-Richards-Nash
Callahan-J. Jokinen-Hagelin
Pyatt-Stepan-Kreider
Rupp-Halpern/Boyle-Asham

Callahan compliments Jokinen well; Callahan has jam, Jokinen.. not so much Jam but offensive creativity and a good shot. Also, excellent in the shootout.

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02-01-2013, 02:51 PM
  #163
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Jokinen's not a center and has too much salary for us to take.

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02-01-2013, 02:52 PM
  #164
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Jokinen's not a center and has too much salary for us to take.
Currently centering Carolina's 3rd line..?

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02-01-2013, 02:53 PM
  #165
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Do we not have enough threads......

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02-01-2013, 02:54 PM
  #166
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And Jokinen is not an upgrade on Stepan so pass.

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02-01-2013, 02:54 PM
  #167
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He was drafted as a center. He hasn't played there in years and if Carolina is shifting him there right now it's an experiment. He's a good player but even if he was capable at center, he still has too much salary for us to take on. Plus, why is Carolina selling him and what are we giving up to get him? I can tell you right now, he's not being had for a third and a B prospect, and that's about all we can afford.

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02-01-2013, 02:56 PM
  #168
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What do you guys think of this forward core? What would it take to get him from Carolina? I proposed this in another thread and got ripped for it, interested to see what the majority thinks.

Gaborik-Richards-Nash
Callahan-J. Jokinen-Hagelin
Pyatt-Stepan-Kreider
Rupp-Halpern/Boyle-Asham

Callahan compliments Jokinen well; Callahan has jam, Jokinen.. not so much Jam but offensive creativity and a good shot. Also, excellent in the shootout.
yup, i want Jokinen back for the shootout, but not on the ice....

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02-01-2013, 02:57 PM
  #169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
You're thinking of Johnny Boychuk who is a very good 2nd pairing d-man in Boston (and wouldn't be on waivers now). Zach Boychuk, the undersized forward who can't crack the NHL, from Carolina was on waivers, and he never made it to us. He got claimed before we had a shot. We likely would have taken him as he's better than dressing Bickel as a forward.
I knew he wasnt Johnny actually, I just thought I read he was a Dman.

I admittedly havent paid a ton of attention to this season so far... being busy with life and whatever, but I would've thought we had a claim before Pitt, because I didnt know they were behind us at the time.

Regardless, gotta make a few small moves. Ferreiro hasnt looked bad.

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02-01-2013, 02:58 PM
  #170
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And Jokinen is not an upgrade on Stepan so pass.
One quick Youtube search will disprove that.

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02-01-2013, 03:02 PM
  #171
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Do we not have enough threads......
My bad

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And Jokinen is not an upgrade on Stepan so pass.
Please.. just put the keyboard down

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He was drafted as a center. He hasn't played there in years and if Carolina is shifting him there right now it's an experiment. He's a good player but even if he was capable at center, he still has too much salary for us to take on. Plus, why is Carolina selling him and what are we giving up to get him? I can tell you right now, he's not being had for a third and a B prospect, and that's about all we can afford.
Skjei/McIlrath + 3rd? No idea on what to give up. We're stacked on D currently (if Sauer comes back) and with Skjei/McIlrath in the system.

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yup, i want Jokinen back for the shootout, but not on the ice....
I'm talking about Jussi Jokinen. I purposely put the J. in front of Jokinen to not confuse people with the utter trash that was Olli Jokinen's stint with the NYR

I'd love Antropov instead as I don't think WPG is a contender at this point but his salary sucks

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02-01-2013, 03:08 PM
  #172
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My bad



Please.. just put the keyboard down



Skjei/McIlrath + 3rd? No idea on what to give up. We're stacked on D currently (if Sauer comes back) and with Skjei/McIlrath in the system.



I'm talking about Jussi Jokinen. I purposely put the J. in front of Jokinen to not confuse people with the utter trash that was Olli Jokinen's stint with the NYR

I'd love Antropov instead as I don't think WPG is a contender at this point but his salary sucks
I like Jokinen. I don't think Sauer is coming back at all though, so I wouldn't give up McIlrath. I'd do Skej + 3rd but it's not great asset management because we don't really know what Skej is going to be. The problem is still taking back salary that will be on the books next year as well. We just can't really afford to do that. Perhaps if Carolina would take Rupp/Asham as part of the deal. I just don't see it working though. I'm not criticizing the idea. I probably wouldn't play him at center but let him play top-six wing, but I just don't see a deal like this going down.

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02-01-2013, 03:12 PM
  #173
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Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
My bad



Please.. just put the keyboard down



Skjei/McIlrath + 3rd? No idea on what to give up. We're stacked on D currently (if Sauer comes back) and with Skjei/McIlrath in the system.



I'm talking about Jussi Jokinen. I purposely put the J. in front of Jokinen to not confuse people with the utter trash that was Olli Jokinen's stint with the NYR

I'd love Antropov instead as I don't think WPG is a contender at this point but his salary sucks
1) How did you know I was currently holding my keyboard in the air. Are you watching me?

2) You want to move a former 1st rounder + a pick for a 3rd liner? And the Rangers are not stacked on defense. Sauer will not be coming back.

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02-01-2013, 03:13 PM
  #174
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I like Jokinen. I don't think Sauer is coming back at all though, so I wouldn't give up McIlrath. I'd do Skej + 3rd but it's not great asset management because we don't really know what Skej is going to be. The problem is still taking back salary that will be on the books next year as well. We just can't really afford to do that. Perhaps if Carolina would take Rupp/Asham as part of the deal. I just don't see it working though. I'm not criticizing the idea. I probably wouldn't play him at center but let him play top-six wing, but I just don't see a deal like this going down.
With Jokinen at center we are extremely deep down the middle. I think Carolina takes Skjei + 3rd all day long given their current C depth. For them it's trading from a place of strength to add to a place of weakness. I'd think they'd probably want McIlrath instead which I'm fine with. A guy like Jokinen on this team would put up SOLID numbers and infuse some much needed speed/offensive creativity into the lineup. Takes a lot of pressure off of the top line and will be a nightmare for the other team's D to match up

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02-01-2013, 03:15 PM
  #175
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Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
With Jokinen at center we are extremely deep down the middle. I think Carolina takes Skjei + 3rd all day long given their current C depth. For them it's trading from a place of strength to add to a place of weakness. I'd think they'd probably want McIlrath instead which I'm fine with. A guy like Jokinen on this team would put up SOLID numbers and infuse some much needed speed/offensive creativity into the lineup. Takes a lot of pressure off of the top line and will be a nightmare for the other team's D to match up
Carolina has a ton of depth on defense. McBain is a healthy scratch for them right now.

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