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02-01-2013, 01:40 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by Dangleberry View Post
Hey you know what? A goal is a goal and you aren't awarded any extra points for style. If that's your thing, there's always the all star game.
Is it his thing. After all, his entire confusing Eberle/Stepan thing basically confirmed that he values skill level over general effectiveness. Derek Stepan isnt that most naturally skilled player out there for sure - but he understands the game well and is a contributor to this team when hes going well. We need him to get back to that level, quickly.

Skill is nice, but when you have rocks in your head it doesnt matter all that much. For every Jordan Eberle, theres a thousand Enver Lisin's

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02-01-2013, 01:44 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by mrhockey193195 View Post
For goodness sake...I can't stand this board after a few losses.

Stepan is a bad skater with a bad shot, I agree. But he has tremendous awareness in the offensive zone. Look, he's had a very bad start to the season. He might even have an entire season that's below his standards. But if you think he's a bad player, I don't know what to tell you.

The lack of patience on this board is infuriating...especially when we talk about young players. You realize that practically every single player who has ever played the game has had bad stretches, or a bad season?
I don't think Stepan's a bad player. I take him as my 3C every day of the week and twice on Sunday. The fact is that he should not be a 2C. Do you really want a poor skater with a poor shot as your 2C? You do realize your top 6 forwards have to put the puck in the net..? There's not enough vision in the world to replace offensive, goal scoring instincts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post


3c's don't score 50 points on an team "average C depth".

Wore a C @ the WJC.

The Rangers have enough defensive forwards? Callahan, Boyle, ? Who else? Hagelin? Stepan is the better defensive player positionally.

And again, I would call 51 points solid secondary scoring. But hey, if you want 60+ points from a second line there is always NHL 13.
Ah yes, the world juniors. Clearly a 2 week tournament for 20 year olds translates perfectly over to the NHL which is a grinding season of 82 games plus playoffs for grown men. Walk into a room with people your age only and it's easier to lead. If I'm 21/22 in the room with Lundqvist, Richards, Gaborik, Callahan etc I'm following their lead and keeping my mouth shut.

Hagelin actually has speed to get back on a backcheck to break up a play.

You would call 51 points secondary scoring because you probably don't watch the Rangers. But hey, if you want to keep bringing up 51 points!?!!@?!!!! there's always the MLB where those numbers are actually meaningful.

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02-01-2013, 01:45 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Is it his thing. After all, his entire confusing Eberle/Stepan thing basically confirmed that he values skill level over general effectiveness. Derek Stepan isnt that most naturally skilled player out there for sure - but he understands the game well and is a contributor to this team when hes going well. We need him to get back to that level, quickly.

Skill is nice, but when you have rocks in your head it doesnt matter all that much. For every Jordan Eberle, theres a thousand Enver Lisin's
Is it too much to ask to have a player with all of Stepan's positives that you have pointed out here and be a player who actually has hands, and the ability to skate well? (it is hockey afterall, and its played on ice, skating is important!)

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02-01-2013, 01:46 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
You do realize your top 6 forwards have to put the puck in the net..?
More than 19 times a season?

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02-01-2013, 01:47 PM
  #355
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Sometimes I get the impression people still think its the '92-'93 season when they talk about points production.

There were 90 forwards and 32 centers who equaled or surpassed Stepans 51 points last year. And that was on a team with an abysmal power play.

Like it or not, his production was closer to that of a 1st liner than a 3rd liner.

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02-01-2013, 01:47 PM
  #356
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Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
I don't think Stepan's a bad player. I take him as my 3C every day of the week and twice on Sunday. The fact is that he should not be a 2C. Do you really want a poor skater with a poor shot as your 2C? You do realize your top 6 forwards have to put the puck in the net..? There's not enough vision in the world to replace offensive, goal scoring instincts.
Great post. Stepan is a 3rd line center at best. His skill/talent level is even with that line assignment.

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02-01-2013, 01:49 PM
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
Ah yes, the world juniors. Clearly a 2 week tournament for 20 year olds translates perfectly over to the NHL which is a grinding season of 82 games plus playoffs for grown men. Walk into a room with people your age only and it's easier to lead. If I'm 21/22 in the room with Lundqvist, Richards, Gaborik, Callahan etc I'm following their lead and keeping my mouth shut.

Hagelin actually has speed to get back on a backcheck to break up a play.

You would call 51 points secondary scoring because you probably don't watch the Rangers. But hey, if you want to keep bringing up 51 points!?!!@?!!!! there's always the MLB where those numbers are actually meaningful.
So leading a group of peers is no longer considered leadership? I will have to jot that one down.

Hagelin does have speed. He doesn't have the hockey IQ Stepan does.

51 points is now considered a ******* point total in the NHL by a 21 year old. Got it.

Why do you keep bringing up baseball? Is it because the stats (which aren't even advanced) ruin your entire argument and you would rather throw them out?

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02-01-2013, 01:54 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
Is it too much to ask to have a player with all of Stepan's positives that you have pointed out here and be a player who actually has hands, and the ability to skate well? (it is hockey afterall, and its played on ice, skating is important!)
As a #2 center? Yea, it is. Its nitpicking is what it is.

We all wish we had an Eberle or were lucky enough to have a 1-2 punch like Crosby and Malkin.

But most of us are rooted in reality and realize thats a tough thing. And that the Rangers are much stronger in other areas compared to the Pens and Oil.

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02-01-2013, 01:55 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
Is it too much to ask to have a player with all of Stepan's positives that you have pointed out here and be a player who actually has hands, and the ability to skate well? (it is hockey afterall, and its played on ice, skating is important!)
Yes, it is. Because a player with all of those attributes that you describe would easily be first line player. What you are asking for is to have a second, 1st line center. That is unrealistic expectations with a salary cap.

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02-01-2013, 01:59 PM
  #360
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Olli Jokinen had 61 points last year fellas....

JUST SAYIN...

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02-01-2013, 02:00 PM
  #361
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Refute my opinion! ...but I don't care about stats, facts, logic or reality. Go!

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02-01-2013, 02:00 PM
  #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
More than 19 times a season?
Stepan scored 17 goals last year, but even if it was 19 YES.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
So leading a group of peers is no longer considered leadership? I will have to jot that one down.

Hagelin does have speed. He doesn't have the hockey IQ Stepan does.

51 points is now considered a ******* point total in the NHL by a 21 year old. Got it.

Why do you keep bringing up baseball? Is it because the stats (which aren't even advanced) ruin your entire argument and you would rather throw them out?
Jot this down:

You're not in the room. So for you to say Stepan has "leadership" based on captaining a WJ team is laughable.

Stats don't ruin my argument because there's a laundry list of guys that have put up those point totals that went on to do nothing (our friend Dubinsky comes to mind, who put up over 50 points playing with Jagr; he didn't look too good last year did he). But I guess the Rangers should fire all their scouts, since watching hockey obviously means nothing and all we need are stats. Because Stepan throws up 51 points while playing with Gaborik who had a career year means he is a bonafide #2C. Sure. Fire the scouts!

Olli Jokinen had over 60 points last year. That's all you need to know about how much stats mean in the NHL. But keep throwing them at me.. please. I'm getting a good laugh in

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02-01-2013, 02:01 PM
  #363
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
Stepan scored 17 goals last year, but even if it was 19 YES.
19 is the average of his 2 NHL seasons.

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02-01-2013, 02:01 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
Olli Jokinen had 61 points last year fellas....

JUST SAYIN...
Thats a non-sequitur.

Just sayin.

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02-01-2013, 02:04 PM
  #365
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
Olli Jokinen had 61 points last year fellas....

JUST SAYIN...
And he was the flames #1 center. He was a #1 center on the Panthers for years. Like Kovalev for most of his career, he can be a top line player if he wants to be.

I thought that was pretty much universally agreed upon.

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02-01-2013, 02:04 PM
  #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
Olli Jokinen had 61 points last year fellas....

JUST SAYIN...
He also put up seasons of 89, 91, and 71 points while in Florida.

...after the Islanders and Kings decided he wasn't good enough to be a scoring center in the NHL.

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02-01-2013, 02:05 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
Great post. Stepan is a 3rd line center at best. His skill/talent level is even with that line assignment.
The best third line centers in the league don't score ~50 points.

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02-01-2013, 02:06 PM
  #368
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
Olli Jokinen had 61 points last year fellas....

JUST SAYIN...
And Olli Jokinen got a job as a 1st line center this summer... So...?

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02-01-2013, 02:08 PM
  #369
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
Stepan scored 17 goals last year, but even if it was 19 YES.



Jot this down:

You're not in the room. So for you to say Stepan has "leadership" based on captaining a WJ team is laughable.

Stats don't ruin my argument because there's a laundry list of guys that have put up those point totals that went on to do nothing (our friend Dubinsky comes to mind, who put up over 50 points playing with Jagr; he didn't look too good last year did he). But I guess the Rangers should fire all their scouts, since watching hockey obviously means nothing and all we need are stats. Because Stepan throws up 51 points while playing with Gaborik who had a career year means he is a bonafide #2C. Sure. Fire the scouts!

Olli Jokinen had over 60 points last year. That's all you need to know about how much stats mean in the NHL. But keep throwing them at me.. please. I'm getting a good laugh in
I had a long-written rebuttal to all of this but I feel you are planted in your ways at this point and I almost feel bad. You contradict yourself left and right.

I'll remember to jot it down though.

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02-01-2013, 02:19 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
i would have traded Stepan over Anisimov or Dubinsky or first round in the Rick Nash deal..
Bingo; we have another winner!!
Look, we all know hindsight is 20/20 but it looks like we really miss Dubinsky who was perhaps our best player along the boards and a very good forechecker even though he never was a natural goal scorer.

The same can be said for Anisimov who was also a good forechecker and used his size and reach to advantage.

Maybe qwe should have let Stepan go in the deal for Nash.

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02-01-2013, 02:22 PM
  #371
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Originally Posted by nevesis View Post
Great post. Stepan is a 3rd line center at best. His skill/talent level is even with that line assignment.
Agree. Now we're getting somewhere regarding Stepan.

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02-01-2013, 02:22 PM
  #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jabroni1994 View Post
The best third line centers in the league don't score ~50 points.
Here, since stats are the only thing that matters here:


Carolina.. J. Jokinen put up 46 points last year in what many considered a down year (oh.. and he wasn't playing with Gaborik in his prime), 52 in 70GP in 10-11, 65 in 81 GP in 09-10. He's now Carolina's 3C behind the Staal brothers. This is exactly what my argument is about. I would take Jokinen as our 2C over Stepan every single day of the week. The reason this team cannot put the puck in the net is because our scoring depth consists of elite 3rd line defensive players instead of good-average 2nd liners.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
I had a long-written rebuttal to all of this but I feel you are planted in your ways at this point and I almost feel bad. You contradict yourself left and right.

I'll remember to jot it down though.
Fire the scouts


You need your top 6 forwards to be offensively focused. Let the 3rd, 4th line and DEFENSE play defense.

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02-01-2013, 02:25 PM
  #373
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
Stepan scored 17 goals last year, but even if it was 19 YES.



Jot this down:

You're not in the room. So for you to say Stepan has "leadership" based on captaining a WJ team is laughable.

Stats don't ruin my argument because there's a laundry list of guys that have put up those point totals that went on to do nothing (our friend Dubinsky comes to mind, who put up over 50 points playing with Jagr; he didn't look too good last year did he). But I guess the Rangers should fire all their scouts, since watching hockey obviously means nothing and all we need are stats. Because Stepan throws up 51 points while playing with Gaborik who had a career year means he is a bonafide #2C. Sure. Fire the scouts!

Olli Jokinen had over 60 points last year. That's all you need to know about how much stats mean in the NHL. But keep throwing them at me.. please. I'm getting a good laugh in
I dont know whats funnier at this point. How you totally throw away stats as an indicator to a player's worth - or how much value you put in your perceived ability to judge a player's worth by just watching him.

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02-01-2013, 02:30 PM
  #374
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
Here, since stats are the only thing that matters here:


Carolina.. J. Jokinen put up 46 points last year in what many considered a down year (oh.. and he wasn't playing with Gaborik in his prime), 52 in 70GP in 10-11, 65 in 81 GP in 09-10. He's now Carolina's 3C behind the Staal brothers. This is exactly what my argument is about. I would take Jokinen as our 2C over Stepan every single day of the week. The reason this team cannot put the puck in the net is because our scoring depth consists of elite 3rd line defensive players instead of good-average 2nd liners.



Fire the scouts


You need your top 6 forwards to be offensively focused. Let the 3rd, 4th line and DEFENSE play defense.
So what you are saying is you want your 1st and 2nd line to not play any defense and just try to score? That will go well. I think you should try your hand at coaching.

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02-01-2013, 02:30 PM
  #375
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
Here, since stats are the only thing that matters here:

Carolina.. J. Jokinen put up 46 points last year in what many considered a down year (oh.. and he wasn't playing with Gaborik in his prime), 52 in 70GP in 10-11, 65 in 81 GP in 09-10. He's now Carolina's 3C behind the Staal brothers. This is exactly what my argument is about. I would take Jokinen as our 2C over Stepan every single day of the week. The reason this team cannot put the puck in the net is because our scoring depth consists of elite 3rd line defensive players instead of average 2nd liners.
Ah, yes. A former waiver-wire pickup who started his career with similar production to Stepan and has exactly one season to his credit where he scored more than 19 goals. There's the clear cut upgrade we'd all love as our #2C.

Maybe you should stick to not dealing with stats.

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