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Old
02-01-2013, 12:37 PM
  #451
AJGass4
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I think Kipper has won you more games than cost you.

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02-01-2013, 12:42 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by AJGass4 View Post
I think Kipper has won you more games than cost you.
This year no, it depends on the season some years he is the one of the best goalies in the league and is the main reason for most wins, but other years he is mediocre and just another player. This year is has been is worst 5 games ever.

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02-01-2013, 12:42 PM
  #453
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To respond to the rebuild thing, we really had no choice or a choice had to be made in order to decide what diection would be taken.

We never had a bunch of vets that were worth much of anything so the idea of trading to get good young players was not an option.

Calgary may be able to speed up the process by getting rid of some good vets, but it still doesn't guarantee success.

That being said, I enjoy watching our team win or lose and feel that we will be a very good hockey team after having years of not making the playoffs.

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02-01-2013, 12:42 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by AJGass4 View Post
I think Kipper has won you more games than cost you.
What does that even mean? He has cost us more games this year then he has one. What he did last year doesn't matter right now, what matters is how he's playing now, which is like garbage.

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02-01-2013, 12:45 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by AJGass4 View Post
To respond to the rebuild thing, we really had no choice or a choice had to be made in order to decide what diection would be taken.

We never had a bunch of vets that were worth much of anything so the idea of trading to get good young players was not an option.

Calgary may be able to speed up the process by getting rid of some good vets, but it still doesn't guarantee success.

That being said, I enjoy watching our team win or lose and feel that we will be a very good hockey team after having years of not making the playoffs.
Smyth was traded for peanuts, Hemsky wasn't traded, Souray wasn't traded. Those were the 3 main reasons the oilers rebuild has taken so long poor asset management had they moved all 3 for young players they would be a playoff team this year if not last.

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02-01-2013, 12:52 PM
  #456
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The thing with Kipper playing terrible right now is that it shows a lot of the deficiencies the Flames have.

Last season I recall Lanny and the guys on 960 saying that Kipper masks a lot of the problems the team has, and it's absolutely true. We are atrocious in our own end: we gave a tired team too much space and time with the puck. I agree that Kipper let in some soft goals that I'm sure he'd want back, but our defense should take some blame too (thanks for the turnover, Butler).
That being said, our power play isn't looking that great right now if I can say that. And I hope Irving gets the start next game.

If Kipper plays the way he's playing right now, and if Irving plays the way he did in the AHL before being called up this season, the Flames will be 15th in the West, regardless of how good our offense is. And if this happens I'd like to the go ahead from the owners to give Feaster the green light to do a short rebuild and get some younger talent in ASAP.

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02-01-2013, 12:55 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by MuffinMerc View Post
The thing with Kipper playing terrible right now is that it shows a lot of the deficiencies the Flames have.

Last season I recall Lanny and the guys on 960 saying that Kipper masks a lot of the problems the team has, and it's absolutely true. We are atrocious in our own end: we gave a tired team too much space and time with the puck. I agree that Kipper let in some soft goals that I'm sure he'd want back, but our defense should take some blame too (thanks for the turnover, Butler).
That being said, our power play isn't looking that great right now if I can say that. And I hope Irving gets the start next game.

If Kipper plays the way he's playing right now, and if Irving plays the way he did in the AHL before being called up this season, the Flames will be 15th in the West, regardless of how good our offense is. And if this happens I'd like to the go ahead from the owners to give Feaster the green light to do a short rebuild and get some younger talent in ASAP.
Kipper only masked the fact we couldn't score this year we are seeing that a defensive system has definitely helped Kipper the last few years.

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02-01-2013, 01:06 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
Smyth was traded for peanuts, Hemsky wasn't traded, Souray wasn't traded. Those were the 3 main reasons the oilers rebuild has taken so long poor asset management had they moved all 3 for young players they would be a playoff team this year if not last.
Poor asset management ......?
Kipper, Iggy, Bow & Gio say "Hello" .....

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02-01-2013, 01:09 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by Bobs your uncle View Post
Poor asset management ......?
Kipper, Iggy, Bow & Gio say "Hello" .....
Yes now is the time to move them and get a good return not at the last minute when you can't come to terms with them, not buying them out, not hanging on to them. I never said we are good at it but we have a chance to avoid 2 30th finishes and a 29th finish.

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02-01-2013, 01:51 PM
  #460
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I disagree with your points on why it has taken so long for a rebuild. I would have traded Souray but no one wanted him.

Hemsky is Hemsky, if he is good enough to get young talent in return, why would we trade him? For whatever reason, the Oilers seem to love the guy and decided it was more beneficial to keep him, rather than trade him for probably nothing much.

As for Smyth, I highly doubt we could have gotten much more for him.

I think Iginla's trade value has dropped considerably, along with Kipper. If we are talking about managing assets, I would have thought the Flames would have traded both when they were at the top of their game. You would have gotten one hell of a return at that point, but Feaster seems to think he can do it with keeping them, so who am I to question it.

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02-01-2013, 02:30 PM
  #461
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AJGass4 View Post
I disagree with your points on why it has taken so long for a rebuild. I would have traded Souray but no one wanted him.

Hemsky is Hemsky, if he is good enough to get young talent in return, why would we trade him? For whatever reason, the Oilers seem to love the guy and decided it was more beneficial to keep him, rather than trade him for probably nothing much.

As for Smyth, I highly doubt we could have gotten much more for him.

I think Iginla's trade value has dropped considerably, along with Kipper. If we are talking about managing assets, I would have thought the Flames would have traded both when they were at the top of their game. You would have gotten one hell of a return at that point, but Feaster seems to think he can do it with keeping them, so who am I to question it.
Now it would be a very short sighted move on Feasters part to move those 2, because IF they start playing good enough to trade the Flames will be winning a lot of games, and if they don't then what is the point, you don't trade your captian and franchise forward for peanuts and Kipper still has servicable starting seasons remaining, or if nothing else he can make one hell of a backup for Ramo.

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02-01-2013, 02:58 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by AJGass4 View Post
I disagree with your points on why it has taken so long for a rebuild. I would have traded Souray but no one wanted him.

Hemsky is Hemsky, if he is good enough to get young talent in return, why would we trade him? For whatever reason, the Oilers seem to love the guy and decided it was more beneficial to keep him, rather than trade him for probably nothing much.

As for Smyth, I highly doubt we could have gotten much more for him.

I think Iginla's trade value has dropped considerably, along with Kipper. If we are talking about managing assets, I would have thought the Flames would have traded both when they were at the top of their game. You would have gotten one hell of a return at that point, but Feaster seems to think he can do it with keeping them, so who am I to question it.
He was hurt most of the year but probably still could have fetched a decent roster player to help fill the void, Iggy hasn't been at the top of his game under Feaster when do you think he took over 08?

As for the Hemsky thing if Iginla is good enough to return young talent then why trade him? See its stupid question. The Oilers should have traded him and gotten several establish prospects which would have put them a year a head and if they had traded Smyth a bit earlier with out publicly saying he wanted a ton of money they for sure could have gotten more.

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02-01-2013, 04:10 PM
  #463
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Sorry to bust in here guys (and gals, if applicable), but I'm going to be watching the Flames this season a lot more due to the acquisition of Hudler (he was one of my favorite Wings players... *sniffle*); seems like he and Cervenka will be good together, and he should be able to help his young Czech teammate adjust to NHL/North American life.

Figured I'd give you fair warning, you know, just in case.

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02-01-2013, 05:09 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by AJGass4 View Post
Hemsky is Hemsky, if he is good enough to get young talent in return, why would we trade him? For whatever reason, the Oilers seem to love the guy and decided it was more beneficial to keep him, rather than trade him for probably nothing much.
Hemsky is an excellent example of why Tambellini is such a shoddy GM. Hemsky's not in the long term plans of the Oilers, at least he shouldn't be. He's a redundant asset, what with Eberle, Hall and Yakupov. The money spent on him would be much better spent on a legit top-four defensemen.

And I'm pretty sure the Oilers brass recognize this. A couple of years ago, before Hemsky signed his most recent 2yr extension and still had a couple of years left on his old contract at 4M per, it was reported that Poile of the Preds offered Blum and 1st round pick at the trade deadline. Tambellini refused, thinking he could get more later on.

Fast forward to last year's trade deadline when Hemsky was being shopped aggressively. Except now, it was painfully obvious that he had character issues, was incredibly injury prone and was just a an overall massive risk. No one was offering more than I believe a 2nd or 3rd round pick. But Tambellini still went to Poile and asked for Blum and 1st. He was of course, rebuffed, and most likely laughed at.

So now, he could either take scraps, let Hemsky walk in July, or re-sign him. Given those options, the only logical choice was to re-sign him and hope his trade value improves and that he stay healthy for once. If Tambellini has shown anything as GM of the Oilers, it's that not only is he overly cautious when it comes to making moves to improve his club, but that he is also horrible at reading the market. Khabibulin's contract and trading Visnovsky for Whitney are just some examples of his fine work.

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As for Smyth, I highly doubt we could have gotten much more for him.
Smyth got a great return at time. A first round pick, Nilsson, who was still highly regarded, and Ryan O'Marra, also a fairly respected prospect. It was essentially 3 first round picks for Smyth.

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02-01-2013, 05:13 PM
  #465
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So a 40 year rebuild?
well we only have 33 years left

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02-01-2013, 05:32 PM
  #466
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Smyth got a great return at time. A first round pick, Nilsson, who was still highly regarded, and Ryan O'Marra, also a fairly respected prospect. It was essentially 3 first round picks for Smyth.
I totally forgot Nilsson was in that not as bad as I thought, O'marra was a bust he was barely a ppg in the ohl his last year.

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02-01-2013, 05:49 PM
  #467
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I totally forgot Nilsson was in that not as bad as I thought, O'marra was a bust he was barely a ppg in the ohl his last year.
At that point, it was still thought that O'Marra could turn out be a very good 3rd or 4th line centre with captain-like qualities. He had only been drafted a couple of years prior to the trade - was way too soon to be calling him a bust at that point.

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02-01-2013, 05:58 PM
  #468
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At that point, it was still thought that O'Marra could turn out be a very good 3rd or 4th line centre with captain-like qualities. He had only been drafted a couple of years prior to the trade - was way too soon to be calling him a bust at that point.
At the deadline wasn't he in the echl?

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02-01-2013, 06:18 PM
  #469
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Originally Posted by TheGleninator View Post
At the deadline wasn't he in the echl?
He was in the OHL.

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O'Marra, meanwhile, is still in junior hockey with the OHL's Saginaw Spirit. Born in Tokyo, O'Marra was an assistant captain for Team Canada at the Under-18 tournament before joining the world junior team in 2006 and 2007, where he won back-to-back gold medals. In terms of playing style, O'Marra is an all-around centreman who has a great shot and plays a strong physical game. He's also not overly big, but is tough and a great competitor.

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02-01-2013, 06:22 PM
  #470
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Alright thanks, it was a couple years later he was in the echl.

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02-01-2013, 07:08 PM
  #471
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Like I say, we couldn't have gotten much more for Smyth.

I like our team, no matter what anyone else thinks.

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02-02-2013, 07:46 AM
  #472
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One of these guys is not like the others. I think it's the Bowmeister. He is just starting to be the player people thought he should be. Any team in the league would take Iggy/Kip or Gio. You have to wonder if Iggy will be on the team by the end of the season. Let's face it. I think he's paid his dues. Maybe trade him and give him a chance at a cup.

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