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Old
02-01-2013, 11:29 AM
  #226
Jame
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Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post
The Enroth comparison doesn't apply. Anyway, I'm not saying to split up VHS right in the present (that means within the next few games to me). I'm saying if...well you know what I'm saying because I already said it. Nothing more to bother with.


Why?

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02-01-2013, 11:35 AM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Layne Staley View Post
Vanek is the second player to score 5 points in a game two times in his teams first 7 games. The other player is Mario Lemieux. Vanek even missed a game so that is even more amazing.

As for VHP, I don't think switching Ennis for Hodgson for a few games would have any noticeable changes in production.I would wait a few more games before implementing this, but if we don't start winning games regularly then I would be all for this. I am not suggesting Hodgson is anything like Adam but last season Adam had 9 points in his first 10 games while getting to center Vanek and Pominville. Why did he score that many? Because Vanek and Pominville are legit 1st line players and Adam got to benefit from playing with them. Hodgson is not even close to being the straw that stirs the top lines drink and I think putting Ennis in that spot primarily to play with Vanek could really help our overall offense. Ennis has proved he can score, 49 points his rookie year, 34 in 48 last season for a 58 point pace. Last night in a short duration of playing with each other, Vanek and Ennis looked deadly. They connected for 2 goals and had atleast 2 prime chances for more. Since Hodgsons offense has been steady, I think putting him with Foligno and Stafford might get them going since Ennis hasn't been as effective with them like last year.

Vanek and Pominville have been so good that I wouldn't mind if struggling top 9 forwards got a few games to play with those 2.With those 2 having scored at will so far it could really kickstart some players if they got the chance. And this is Lindy Ruff we are talking about here, if any player gets injured or struggles and he scratched them then he totally jumbles his lines up after very short periods of time. He never sticks with the same lines consistently so we are bound to see this specific lineup at least once this season IMO.
Was there a noticeable change in Vanek's production when Roy got injured in 2010-11?

Was there a noticeable change in Vanek's production when he was moved off Roy's line in 2011-2012?

Vanek is a better player when the offense flows through him. When he possess the puck more in transition. Simply, when he is the puck dominant player on his line. The evidence is overwhelming

The people who think that Ennis/Vanek is a good idea only understand hockey on paper.

Players like Ennis and Roy (yes they are similar players who thrive with the puck on their stick, and using their skating to attack transitionally) are a TERRIBLE fit for Vanek, and players like Vanek.

That's what makes Ennis successful with bigger bodies and guys who can work in traffic, and create space (Foligno, Staff)

You would think Ennis/Vanek was a good idea if they were only names and stats on a piece of paper

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02-01-2013, 11:56 AM
  #228
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My first try at this:
G: Vanek, Miller (both in a class of their own tonight I think)
Ehrhoff, Weber
Scott's fight
Ruff's TO
The fact that our turnaround started because of Lucic (and Chara's) penalties
Foligno

B: Our D (besides Weber and Ehrhoff)
Ennis - aside from his goal, he was showing too much of what I didn't like from Afinogenov back in the day

U: 2nd period defensive meltdown
Leopold

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02-01-2013, 11:57 AM
  #229
Dubi Doo
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I thought Ennis had a terrible first and second, but that goal woke him up. He's still overthinking things, but he's coming around.

I think Foligno had a very strong game. Sekera-weber had a good game. Myers-Leo...seriously, break them up.

Ott was very quiet, though. I was disappointed with his game overall. He had some good defensive plays, but this is the type of game he should shine in.

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02-01-2013, 12:00 PM
  #230
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dubi Doo View Post
I thought Ennis had a terrible first and second, but that goal woke him up. He's still overthinking things, but he's coming around.
I think it was on the PP prior to his goal, but when he circled back in our zone and then immediately was stood up at the Bruins blue line, I had flashbacks to Afinogenov. When Ennis = Afinogenov he isn't good at all. When he plays his own simple game, is when he's at his best. Don't make two moves to get around someone, make one and shoot.

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02-01-2013, 12:09 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by Jame View Post


Why?


Let's see here...uh...Vanek and Pominville are established veterans that have already produced, and the vast majority of that time has been on different lines.

Enroth has had a blip of success while Miller has obviously had an established track record. Trading away proven success for a blip of success is obviously absurd.

You're actually suggesting that going with the most recent blip of success (Vanek and Pominville being hot together now and the start of last season, even though the team was losing) is the only option, and that the proven track record of success (both players producing away from each other, while the team was both mediocre in the distant past and very good in the recent past) is absurd.

If you can't figure out the difference from that I really can't help you. Either way I'm done with your nipping.

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02-01-2013, 01:41 PM
  #232
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean McG View Post
- Scott kicking Thornton's ass and his subsequent point at Lucic

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02-01-2013, 01:59 PM
  #233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sabresfansince1980 View Post


Let's see here...uh...Vanek and Pominville are established veterans that have already produced, and the vast majority of that time has been on different lines.

Enroth has had a blip of success while Miller has obviously had an established track record. Trading away proven success for a blip of success is obviously absurd.

You're actually suggesting that going with the most recent blip of success (Vanek and Pominville being hot together now and the start of last season, even though the team was losing) is the only option, and that the proven track record of success (both players producing away from each other, while the team was both mediocre in the distant past and very good in the recent past) is absurd.

If you can't figure out the difference from that I really can't help you. Either way I'm done with your nipping.
Yes, breaking up the league's most successful duo to go back to Ruff's idiotic "spread it out" ways... is absurd.

the mere thought is hilarious

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02-01-2013, 03:50 PM
  #234
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Two thoughts:

1) Vanek is absurd
2) The defense is atrocious. It would be nice if they could show some semblance of the way they played down the stretch last year (not that they were all that good, but they were certainly a lot better than they are right now).

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02-01-2013, 05:07 PM
  #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Was there a noticeable change in Vanek's production when Roy got injured in 2010-11?

Was there a noticeable change in Vanek's production when he was moved off Roy's line in 2011-2012?

Vanek is a better player when the offense flows through him. When he possess the puck more in transition. Simply, when he is the puck dominant player on his line. The evidence is overwhelming

The people who think that Ennis/Vanek is a good idea only understand hockey on paper.

Players like Ennis and Roy (yes they are similar players who thrive with the puck on their stick, and using their skating to attack transitionally) are a TERRIBLE fit for Vanek, and players like Vanek.

That's what makes Ennis successful with bigger bodies and guys who can work in traffic, and create space (Foligno, Staff)

You would think Ennis/Vanek was a good idea if they were only names and stats on a piece of paper
This so many times. If you pay attention, you'll see everyone from fans to analysts describe Vanek's passing and playmaking skills as "surprisingly good" and "better than you might think." Granted, this is partially because he initially made his name as a sniper/goal scorer, but also because he played with Roy for a long time.

The dude is our best playmaker right now. Beastly. The question is, as always, can he stay healthy enough to help us win? The NESN broadcast guys even said it last night: if Vanek didn't get injured in that playoff series a few years back, things might have gone very differently.

I think him carrying the offense will help that, actually. He'll always take some abuse on power plays, simply because we don't have anyone else who can tip/redirect shots like he can, but he looks way better creating during even strength play than standing in front of the net waiting for (insert Roy-ish player here) to get him the puck.

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02-01-2013, 06:15 PM
  #236
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montag DP View Post
Two thoughts:
2) The defense is atrocious. It would be nice if they could show some semblance of the way they played down the stretch last year (not that they were all that good, but they were certainly a lot better than they are right now).
Yeah, what they're doing's not good enough. Myers and Leopold need to be split up, they have both been atrocious in their own end for most of the season.

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02-01-2013, 06:31 PM
  #237
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Vanek had the #3 top play for his pass to Ennis for the top 10 goals on NHL on the Fly...surprised his dismantling of Rask wasn't included.

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02-01-2013, 06:43 PM
  #238
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamers View Post
This so many times. If you pay attention, you'll see everyone from fans to analysts describe Vanek's passing and playmaking skills as "surprisingly good" and "better than you might think." Granted, this is partially because he initially made his name as a sniper/goal scorer, but also because he played with Roy for a long time.

The dude is our best playmaker right now. Beastly. The question is, as always, can he stay healthy enough to help us win? The NESN broadcast guys even said it last night: if Vanek didn't get injured in that playoff series a few years back, things might have gone very differently.

I think him carrying the offense will help that, actually. He'll always take some abuse on power plays, simply because we don't have anyone else who can tip/redirect shots like he can, but he looks way better creating during even strength play than standing in front of the net waiting for (insert Roy-ish player here) to get him the puck.
Oh, when Boychuk hacked him down and sent him sprawling into the end boards to wreck his ankle? That moment and when Mike Richards sent Connolly head first into the boards in game 6 make me hate hockey sometimes. Need a series win? Just injure the other team's players for the series and get two minutes, problem solved.

Vanek's playmaking is what makes him capable of producing without Pominville. Pominville plays a strong, smart enough game that he doesn't need Vanek. It's awesome that they can dominate together and I hope they can stay together with secondary scoring picking up. If it doesn't though and the team is losing a bunch of 3-2, 2-1 games...well, with Ruff's wack-a-mole penchant to juggle lines it'll happen anyway. Hopefully when it does happen it's for the right reasons.

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Old
02-01-2013, 07:01 PM
  #239
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Yes, breaking up the league's most successful duo to go back to Ruff's idiotic "spread it out" ways... is absurd.

the mere thought is hilarious
Seconded. Vanek's been on fire, Pominville is in the top 5, and Hodgson looks solid between them. Pointless to break them up.

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Old
02-01-2013, 08:17 PM
  #240
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Lindy was talking about how Vanek enjoys having a right handed centerman and sees the puck more now.

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Old
02-02-2013, 02:41 AM
  #241
Dubi Doo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Montag DP View Post
Two thoughts:

1) Vanek is absurd
2) The defense is atrocious. It would be nice if they could show some semblance of the way they played down the stretch last year (not that they were all that good, but they were certainly a lot better than they are right now).
They were really good down the stretch. When Myers, Sekera, and Ehrhoff were in, this team rarely loss. I agree; they look like crap this year.

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