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Game 8: Blues at Red Wings 2/1/13 at 6:30 CST

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Old
02-01-2013, 10:46 AM
  #26
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Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
I'm prepared for a BAD loss tonight...Not because of last night's performance, just that Detroit will be pissed off about that last meeting.
But the Blues are still pissed off about the last decade, so its even.

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02-01-2013, 11:25 AM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Predarat View Post
I wonder what they are going to do with Cole tonight?
Hopefully he plays. Homecoming for him.

I want a good effort tonight. They played half a game last night so they can't be that tired. Plus, after tonight they have another 3 days off. So let's play with energy and at least get a point.

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02-01-2013, 11:33 AM
  #28
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Hope someone puts Tootoo in his place. Was a little disappointed he didn't hear from the league after his attempted run at Tarasenko last time.

EDIT: If Redden is feeling well enough to play, sit Russell and put Cole with Polak.

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02-01-2013, 12:48 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by The Inglorious One View Post
Hope someone puts Tootoo in his place. Was a little disappointed he didn't hear from the league after his attempted run at Tarasenko last time.

EDIT: If Redden is feeling well enough to play, sit Russell and put Cole with Polak.
Why would we break up the Polak/Russel pairing? Also who is going to be the puck mover in that pairing? Hitches system needs a puck mover on all three defensive pairings, and he will not sit russel just so cole can play.

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02-01-2013, 01:09 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Honeycutt View Post
Why would we break up the Polak/Russel pairing? Also who is going to be the puck mover in that pairing? Hitches system needs a puck mover on all three defensive pairings, and he will not sit russel just so cole can play.
Russell has been unusually terrible since the first two games. I think Cole's transition game is fine. Let's not pretend Polak isn't strong either...He's just not flashy.

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02-01-2013, 01:13 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
Russell has been unusually terrible since the first two games. I think Cole's transition game is fine. Let's not pretend Polak isn't strong either...He's just not flashy.
Cole's transition game is about as good as Jackman's is. Cole is not a very good puck mover and has caused a few turnovers the times he has tried. Hitch loves Russell and I don't think Russell has been nearly as bad as you guys are making it sound.

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02-01-2013, 01:14 PM
  #32
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Hoping Tootoo opens the Polak door.

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02-01-2013, 01:25 PM
  #33
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Kris Russell is not some amazing puck-mover. I don't know why he gets labeled like that by some. He's fast but the guy is not that good offensively; he doesn't put up many points. Cole is not any worse than he is whatsoever. Russell has been nothing special and probably our least impressive d-man so far.

I just don't get sitting Cole. Not only do I think he's just as good if not better than Russell already, but he's also younger and has more potential. Sitting him in the press box is just stupid. Kid deserves a chance because when he has played he has looked completely fine. I just hate how the Blues are handling him. Keep him in the lineup and let him prove himself...1 game and then back to the press box would be dumb IMO.

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02-01-2013, 01:27 PM
  #34
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Russell really struggled last night, it might be his night to sit.

I doubt Jackman continues to pinch in offensively, but then again I doubted that before the two goals so it might continue.

Blues 4 (McDonald, Stewart, Shattenkirk, Tarasenko EN from the defensive zone face off dot)
Wings 1 (Fippula)

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Old
02-01-2013, 01:36 PM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Honeycutt View Post
Why would we break up the Polak/Russel pairing?
Because Russell has been playing below par. You might leave him play if there are no other strong alternatives...but Cole is good enough to work in that role.

Quote:
Also who is going to be the puck mover in that pairing? Hitches system needs a puck mover on all three defensive pairings, and he will not sit russel just so cole can play.
Also requires the defenseman to play adequate defense which Russell has been struggling with the past few games. Additionally his puck carrying is suffering which negates a lot of the value he has.
The suggestion is not so much meant to get Cole playing time...it is to either rest Russell or let him get his head back in to the game or whatever it is he needs to play closer to how he did last year. The fact that it will get a young, promising defenseman some additional time in the NHL where we all hope he will be shortly is an added bonus.

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02-01-2013, 01:38 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by BlueDream View Post
Kris Russell is not some amazing puck-mover. I don't know why he gets labeled like that by some. He's fast but the guy is not that good offensively; he doesn't put up many points. Cole is not any worse than he is whatsoever. Russell has been nothing special and probably our least impressive d-man so far.

I just don't get sitting Cole. Not only do I think he's just as good if not better than Russell already, but he's also younger and has more potential. Sitting him in the press box is just stupid. Kid deserves a chance because when he has played he has looked completely fine. I just hate how the Blues are handling him. Keep him in the lineup and let him prove himself...1 game and then back to the press box would be dumb IMO.
I'm not sure what game you guys are watching but Cole hasn't done anything that warrants him a spot on this team. He looks like your average 3rd pairing defenseman. No one is labeling Russell an AMAZING puck mover but he isn't anywhere close to being a bad one. So far he has only been on the ice for one GA and one GF. He hasn't played as great but he has been far from bad. He has bobbled the puck a little bit the past few games but he hasn't let the opposing team score because of it.

Also just because he isn't putting up points doesn't mean he isn't doing his job. Just like I said with the Reaves and the Schwartz talk, it isn't about the stats, it's how you are analyzing their on ice performance.

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02-01-2013, 01:49 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueDream View Post
Kris Russell is not some amazing puck-mover. I don't know why he gets labeled like that by some. He's fast but the guy is not that good offensively; he doesn't put up many points. Cole is not any worse than he is whatsoever. Russell has been nothing special and probably our least impressive d-man so far.
Disagree with the characterization of Russell being a merely adequate puck mover, in particular when using offensive statistics as the metric. Russell is better than average with the puck on his stick from the defensive zone to about 3 feet in front of the opponent's blue line. He moves well, demonstrates quality control and often makes the solid, if not spectacular, first pass.
That is all you can ask and more out of a non-PP specialist third pairing defenseman.

Of course, as of late the Blues have not been getting that.

Quote:
I just don't get sitting Cole. Not only do I think he's just as good if not better than Russell already, but he's also younger and has more potential. Sitting him in the press box is just stupid. Kid deserves a chance because when he has played he has looked completely fine. I just hate how the Blues are handling him. Keep him in the lineup and let him prove himself...1 game and then back to the press box would be dumb IMO.
Blues are in a bit of a pickle with Cole. He is not improving at the AHL level, but that does not seem to mean that he is not improving. Might be because Peoria is so nauseatingly bad. Might be because there's no further growth available.
Second problem is the best pairing for him to be on is currently covered by a shockingly healthy and effective Barrett Jackman. Pietrangelo needs a more experienced partner to play the low-key game than Cole currently has and Polak/Cole has some issues as well.
Finally, if this was not a shortened season when the Blues believe they have a legit chance of a deep playoff run they might be willing to gamble a bit more in Cole. It is not and thusly the Blues are not.

More than likely someone is going to fall to injury and Cole will replace said player, hopefully the Blues do not miss a beat.

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02-01-2013, 01:59 PM
  #38
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Cole has not played well enough to replace Russel, it is that simple, if he was playing better he would be in the lineup. just becasue Cole was drafted by the Blues does not make him better than Russel. Maybe if Cole would have came out of college when the Blues wanted him too, he would be further along, but he made a choice (which is his right) but now he has to deal with it.

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02-01-2013, 02:07 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Honeycutt View Post
Cole has not played well enough to replace Russel, it is that simple
The past few games there have been many moments where Colo would have been a decent replacement. I am sure Hitch has been banking on Russell improving as time goes on, as well as the past year's success with pairing him with Polak.
So, calling it simple is understating the other factors in play.

Quote:
just becasue Cole was drafted by the Blues does not make him better than Russel. Maybe if Cole would have came out of college when the Blues wanted him too, he would be further along, but he made a choice (which is his right) but now he has to deal with it.
I have not seen this type of attitude since Carolina and Jack Johnson.

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02-01-2013, 02:07 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by The Inglorious One View Post
Hope someone puts Tootoo in his place. Was a little disappointed he didn't hear from the league after his attempted run at Tarasenko last time.
Wings fan coming in peace, but youre not going to hear from the league for trying to line up a big hit and missing. I do actually want Tootoo to fight Reaves tonight because of that history between them and kind of clear the air on that. I want Tootoo to become a bit more respectale and it starts with taking your lumps, even if its frmo a bigger guy like Reaves. After 2 good fights last game for the wings I doubt he fights again tonight though.

Not gonna predict a winner but I will predict a much closer game and maybe a Nichol and Abdelkader fight, those 2 dont really like each other!

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Old
02-01-2013, 02:15 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Multimoodia View Post
The past few games there have been many moments where Colo would have been a decent replacement. I am sure Hitch has been banking on Russell improving as time goes on, as well as the past year's success with pairing him with Polak.
So, calling it simple is understating the other factors in play.



I have not seen this type of attitude since Carolina and Jack Johnson.
Sorry, I am a little confused are you comparing Cole to Johnson.

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02-01-2013, 02:15 PM
  #42
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I'm predicting good game by the wings, Howard has an off night though.

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02-01-2013, 02:17 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Wings fan coming in peace, but youre not going to hear from the league for trying to line up a big hit and missing. I do actually want Tootoo to fight Reaves tonight because of that history between them and kind of clear the air on that. I want Tootoo to become a bit more respectale and it starts with taking your lumps, even if its frmo a bigger guy like Reaves. After 2 good fights last game for the wings I doubt he fights again tonight though.

Not gonna predict a winner but I will predict a much closer game and maybe a Nichol and Abdelkader fight, those 2 dont really like each other!
Tootoo won't fight fights he knows he is going to lose. Tootoo is one of the most classless pieces of trash in the NHL. I label him as Sean Avery 2.0. Tootoo will never fight Reaves because Reaves would demolish him in a fight.

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02-01-2013, 02:29 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Bluesman91 View Post
I'm not sure what game you guys are watching but Cole hasn't done anything that warrants him a spot on this team. He looks like your average 3rd pairing defenseman. No one is labeling Russell an AMAZING puck mover but he isn't anywhere close to being a bad one. So far he has only been on the ice for one GA and one GF. He hasn't played as great but he has been far from bad. He has bobbled the puck a little bit the past few games but he hasn't let the opposing team score because of it.

Also just because he isn't putting up points doesn't mean he isn't doing his job. Just like I said with the Reaves and the Schwartz talk, it isn't about the stats, it's how you are analyzing their on ice performance.
Haha what are you watching? Cole has looked fine. You act like he's some scrub AHL-caliber player. He more than warrants a spot on this team and it's not even remotely debateable...

And if Cole is a 3rd-pairing defenseman, what is Russell? Oh yeah, also 3rd pairing. Your complete argument here really makes no sense at all since everything you say about Cole could easily be said for Russell. Russell is not really a puck-mover. He's fast with lackluster offensive skills (passing/shooting) and is an average defender who is undersized and is overmatched against top lines. He has to play against lesser skilled forwards. He looks decent on the 3rd-pairing. There's nothing more to it. He has peaked and is what he is - nothing special.

I've already seen Cole handle top lines better than Russell in his short career (see: vs. Crosby and Pittsburgh last season). Cole is becoming pretty underrated around here...People think he has to become Pietrangelo or Shattenkirk to light it up and stay in the lineup. Well that's not his game and that won't happen. But he's been more than solid and I think he provides more than Russell does. Cole is not inept at moving the puck, and his defensive game and physicality is superior. And like I said, he actually has the chance to improve still.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Honeycutt View Post
Cole has not played well enough to replace Russel, it is that simple, if he was playing better he would be in the lineup. just becasue Cole was drafted by the Blues does not make him better than Russel. Maybe if Cole would have came out of college when the Blues wanted him too, he would be further along, but he made a choice (which is his right) but now he has to deal with it.
Russell is Hitch's boy so it would take a lot for him to come out of the lineup. Cole has not been any worse than Russell. If you think he has, you're just biased or not paying attention frankly.

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Sorry, I am a little confused are you comparing Cole to Johnson.
Uh no...

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Originally Posted by Bluesman91
Tootoo won't fight fights he knows he is going to lose. Tootoo is one of the most classless pieces of trash in the NHL. I label him as Sean Avery 2.0. Tootoo will never fight Reaves because Reaves would demolish him in a fight.
Tootoo is a complete moron but he is willing to fight guys out of his weight class, he's done it several times before.

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02-01-2013, 02:29 PM
  #45
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Cole has looked solid when he has played this season. In his 4 games he has been on the ice for 2 goals against, both of which resulted from individual errors (Pietrangelo & Stewart). I can understand the decision to go with Redden because of the experience, but I don't think he has significantly outperformed Cole.

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02-01-2013, 02:30 PM
  #46
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Sorry, I am a little confused are you comparing Cole to Johnson.
Not really no.

More of comparing the attitude which eventually sent Johnson to LA.

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02-01-2013, 02:34 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Bluesman91 View Post
Tootoo won't fight fights he knows he is going to lose. Tootoo is one of the most classless pieces of trash in the NHL. I label him as Sean Avery 2.0. Tootoo will never fight Reaves because Reaves would demolish him in a fight.
He took on Jared Boll, so I don't see him backing down from Reaves unless he's at the end of a shift or told by Babcock not to fight.

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02-01-2013, 02:47 PM
  #48
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Haha what are you watching? Cole has looked fine. You act like he's some scrub AHL-caliber player. He more than warrants a spot on this team and it's not even remotely debateable...

And if Cole is a 3rd-pairing defenseman, what is Russell? Oh yeah, also 3rd pairing. Your complete argument here really makes no sense at all since everything you say about Cole could easily be said for Russell. Russell is not really a puck-mover. He's fast with lackluster offensive skills (passing/shooting) and is an average defender who is undersized and is overmatched against top lines. He has to play against lesser skilled forwards. He looks decent on the 3rd-pairing. There's nothing more to it. He has peaked and is what he is - nothing special.

I've already seen Cole handle top lines better than Russell in his short career (see: vs. Crosby and Pittsburgh last season). Cole is becoming pretty underrated around here...People think he has to become Pietrangelo or Shattenkirk to light it up and stay in the lineup. Well that's not his game and that won't happen. But he's been more than solid and I think he provides more than Russell does. Cole is not inept at moving the puck, and his defensive game and physicality is superior. And like I said, he actually has the chance to improve still.
I look at Cole as an AHL player (for now at least). I've said it for years now, I don't see much in him at all. Lol keep bringing up the ONE game he played like an NHL caliber defenseman. He hasn't been that bad this year but again nothing great.

An actually there is an argument for him getting a spot on this team. What has he done? If he warranted a spot I'm sure Hitch would have give him a permanent spot, but you know what? He hasn't which is why he is in the pressbox.

His defensive game right now is far from superior to Russell's. It will be better but that is because of the ype of game they play. Russell can pick pucks from board battles really well and his puck moving abilities far surpass Ian "No look pass" Cole. Russell is a clear cut better player than Cole, if it weren't, Hitch would made it be heard.

I never said Russell was anything more than a 3rd pairing defenseman, but you make it sound like he deserves to be a 1st or 2nd line defenseman and take control of that defensive pairing. So Russell may be undersized and an average defender but you could say the same about Sobotka. Russell may be small but he throws his body around more than you think.

I'm not sure what your man crush with Cole is, but not every player can be as good as their hype. Cole will be an average defenseman in his career. I see him having a Jackman type career, which isn't bad, but it isn't what most people are looking for out of him.

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02-01-2013, 02:54 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Multimoodia View Post
Not really no.

More of comparing the attitude which eventually sent Johnson to LA.
Thats what i thought, i did not mean skill wise or anything like that. Cole had a sense of entitlement since he as drafted yet has proven to show anything consistant. Russel showed enough last year, especially in the playoffs that he has earned the benefit of the doubt.

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02-01-2013, 02:57 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Honeycutt View Post
Thats what i thought, i did not mean skill wise or anything like that. Cole had a sense of entitlement since he as drafted yet has proven to show anything consistant. Russel showed enough last year, especially in the playoffs that he has earned the benefit of the doubt.
Cole has a sense of entitlement? Do you have any evidence, any incidents, ANYTHING to base that claim on?

Maybe some fans have projected him into the top pairing before he earned it, but I can't recall anything but professionalism from Cole, including when we is a healthy scratch, which I'm sure is pretty frustrating for any player.

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