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Old
02-01-2013, 03:32 PM
  #376
DelZottoHitTheNetJK
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I dont know whats funnier at this point. How you totally throw away stats as an indicator to a player's worth - or how much value you put in your perceived ability to judge a player's worth by just watching him.
I don't know what's funnier at this point.. how much stock the majority of you guys put into HOCKEY stats or the argument that Stepan has the skill set of an elite 2C

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02-01-2013, 03:38 PM
  #377
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This whole thread is a joke.

Stepan is a very good #2 Center. He's also 22 years old. He's great defensively, possesses excellent vision and passing abilities, and he has shown the ability to put up points.

He will be a far superior point scorer than AA or Dubi.

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02-01-2013, 03:38 PM
  #378
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Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
I don't know what's funnier at this point.. how much stock the majority of you guys put into HOCKEY stats or the argument that Stepan has the skill set of an elite 2C
If I thought for one second you knew how to assign value to a player or, in general, knew what an elite 2C even is, it'd probably be much easier to engage you in conversation.

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02-01-2013, 03:38 PM
  #379
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If you were to post the poll on the other 29 teams websites as to whether or not they would want Derek Stepan over their current #2 center, approximately 25 of them would be a solid "Yes" vote. The exceptions being Pittsburgh, Carolina, San Jose, Detroit. Krejci and Seguin don't play enough center for me to count them, otherwise it would be 24.

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02-01-2013, 03:39 PM
  #380
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Originally Posted by Nyrvana View Post
This whole thread is a joke.

Stepan is a very good #2 Center. He's also 22 years old. He's great defensively, possesses excellent vision and passing abilities, and he has shown the ability to put up points.

He will be a far superior point scorer than AA or Dubi.
As the person who started this thread, I assure you its not a joke. Stepan needs to play better, period. Hes been bad.

That said, its taken a turn for the worse with loonies who want to get rid of him or thinks he sucks in general.

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02-01-2013, 03:39 PM
  #381
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
So what you are saying is you want your 1st and 2nd line to not play any defense and just try to score? That will go well. I think you should try your hand at coaching.

Yep.. that's exactly what I'm saying


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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Ah, yes. A former waiver-wire pickup who started his career with similar production to Stepan and has exactly one season to his credit where he scored more than 19 goals. There's the clear cut upgrade we'd all love as our #2C.

Maybe you should stick to not dealing with stats.
Do you actually watch hockey, or just read the box scores after the game?


Gaborik-Richards-Nash
Callahan-J. Jokinen-Hagelin
Pyatt-Stepan-Kreider
Rupp-Halpern-Asham

Perfect combination of grit and talent. Looks good to me..

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Old
02-01-2013, 03:39 PM
  #382
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I have my doubts about Stepan... He is simply not a difference-maker on the ice during the majority of his shifts... He doesn't factor into the play very much. I said it before but most shifts I hardly notice he is out there because he's not creating plays.... Yeah you could say I'm a bit disappointed with his inconsistency. Having a hard time putting a positive spin on what I'm seeing.

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Old
02-01-2013, 03:40 PM
  #383
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
I don't know what's funnier at this point.. how much stock the majority of you guys put into HOCKEY stats or the argument that Stepan has the skill set of an elite 2C
Hockey stats? To evaluate hockey players? Insanity.

Everyone knows that reaching into your gut and evaluating how that player makes you feel is the only way to evaluate a player.

Side note: I am extremely interested to see how Corey Perry makes you feel: or ?

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Old
02-01-2013, 03:42 PM
  #384
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Not the problem

This board makes me sick to my stomach at times. This kid has put up 120 points in two years under a coach who is the most defensive minded coaches in the league. He has never missed a game in his 3 years as a pro, he is one of the best penalty killers we have had in the last three years, he has averaged about 19 minutes of ice per game the last two years, and he is 22 years old.

He has never been a great skater ala The Great one, Brad Richards so for you guys to keep hounding on that it's retarded. This kid has put up numbers every where he has been and he will break out of this goal slump and by the end of the year this thread will not exist.

To compare him to Eberle is a joke. It is a total different situation that Eberle is in. The Oilers are a team that was not going to win anything the last 3 years and if you look at Eberle's plus minus report you would understand that this kid does not have to play any defense at all to stay in the line-up. If Stepan makes a mistake on the wrong side of the puck he will be playing with Rupp and Asham, period. When you are playing for something like the Rangers have the past two seasons it is a lot more impotant that you take care of all three zones on the rink, and if you watch Eberle play you would understand what I am talking about. Stepan with about 3 weeks left in the season last year led the entire league in the plus minus category.

I think it's time to lay of the 22 year old and address the real problems on this team such as our star goalie to this point has been awful, our 22 million dollar line has been awful and our 1-2 d-men have been awful. Why don't you guys make a "Hank thread". That is a bigger problem than the 22 year old who by the way is 4th on the team in scoring.

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Old
02-01-2013, 03:43 PM
  #385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
Here, since stats are the only thing that matters here:


Carolina.. J. Jokinen put up 46 points last year in what many considered a down year (oh.. and he wasn't playing with Gaborik in his prime), 52 in 70GP in 10-11, 65 in 81 GP in 09-10. He's now Carolina's 3C behind the Staal brothers. This is exactly what my argument is about. I would take Jokinen as our 2C over Stepan every single day of the week. The reason this team cannot put the puck in the net is because our scoring depth consists of elite 3rd line defensive players instead of good-average 2nd liners.



Fire the scouts


You need your top 6 forwards to be offensively focused. Let the 3rd, 4th line and DEFENSE play defense.
Carolina has Eric Staal (a legit #1 C), Jordan Staal (a legit #2 C) and Jussi Jokinen. The fact that both Staals are playing over Jokinen is a testament to their center depth.

That was the same situation in Pittsburgh: Crosby/Malkin, then Staal, even though Staal could play in a #2 C role.

Again, we don't have that center depth. I don't consider Stepan an elite 3rd line defensive player.

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02-01-2013, 03:44 PM
  #386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Hockey stats? To evaluate hockey players? Insanity.

Everyone knows that reaching into your gut and evaluating how that player makes you feel is the only way to evaluate a player.

Side note: I am extremely interested to see how Corey Perry makes you feel: or ?
I couldn't tell you.. I don't watch the Ducks

If I ever meet Gordie Clark I'm gonna show him this thread and we will have the luls for hours.

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02-01-2013, 03:44 PM
  #387
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Originally Posted by Stepanformayor View Post
This board makes me sick to my stomach at times. This kid has put up 120 points in two years under a coach who is the most defensive minded coaches in the league. He has never missed a game in his 3 years as a pro, he is one of the best penalty killers we have had in the last three years, he has averaged about 19 minutes of ice per game the last two years, and he is 22 years old.

He has never been a great skater ala The Great one, Brad Richards so for you guys to keep hounding on that it's retarded. This kid has put up numbers every where he has been and he will break out of this goal slump and by the end of the year this thread will not exist.

To compare him to Eberle is a joke. It is a total different situation that Eberle is in. The Oilers are a team that was not going to win anything the last 3 years and if you look at Eberle's plus minus report you would understand that this kid does not have to play any defense at all to stay in the line-up. If Stepan makes a mistake on the wrong side of the puck he will be playing with Rupp and Asham, period. When you are playing for something like the Rangers have the past two seasons it is a lot more impotant that you take care of all three zones on the rink, and if you watch Eberle play you would understand what I am talking about. Stepan with about 3 weeks left in the season last year led the entire league in the plus minus category.

I think it's time to lay of the 22 year old and address the real problems on this team such as our star goalie to this point has been awful, our 22 million dollar line has been awful and our 1-2 d-men have been awful. Why don't you guys make a "Hank thread". That is a bigger problem than the 22 year old who by the way is 4th on the team in scoring.
I think Hank has been one of our best players.

Either way, I think there is a thread about this.

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Old
02-01-2013, 03:45 PM
  #388
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stepanformayor View Post
This board makes me sick to my stomach at times. This kid has put up 120 points in two years under a coach who is the most defensive minded coaches in the league. He has never missed a game in his 3 years as a pro, he is one of the best penalty killers we have had in the last three years, he has averaged about 19 minutes of ice per game the last two years, and he is 22 years old.

He has never been a great skater ala The Great one, Brad Richards so for you guys to keep hounding on that it's retarded. This kid has put up numbers every where he has been and he will break out of this goal slump and by the end of the year this thread will not exist.

To compare him to Eberle is a joke. It is a total different situation that Eberle is in. The Oilers are a team that was not going to win anything the last 3 years and if you look at Eberle's plus minus report you would understand that this kid does not have to play any defense at all to stay in the line-up. If Stepan makes a mistake on the wrong side of the puck he will be playing with Rupp and Asham, period. When you are playing for something like the Rangers have the past two seasons it is a lot more impotant that you take care of all three zones on the rink, and if you watch Eberle play you would understand what I am talking about. Stepan with about 3 weeks left in the season last year led the entire league in the plus minus category.

I think it's time to lay of the 22 year old and address the real problems on this team such as our star goalie to this point has been awful, our 22 million dollar line has been awful and our 1-2 d-men have been awful. Why don't you guys make a "Hank thread". That is a bigger problem than the 22 year old who by the way is 4th on the team in scoring.
Sweet username brah.

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Old
02-01-2013, 03:51 PM
  #389
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stepanformayor View Post
This board makes me sick to my stomach at times. This kid has put up 120 points in two years under a coach who is the most defensive minded coaches in the league. He has never missed a game in his 3 years as a pro, he is one of the best penalty killers we have had in the last three years, he has averaged about 19 minutes of ice per game the last two years, and he is 22 years old.

He has never been a great skater ala The Great one, Brad Richards so for you guys to keep hounding on that it's retarded. This kid has put up numbers every where he has been and he will break out of this goal slump and by the end of the year this thread will not exist.

To compare him to Eberle is a joke. It is a total different situation that Eberle is in. The Oilers are a team that was not going to win anything the last 3 years and if you look at Eberle's plus minus report you would understand that this kid does not have to play any defense at all to stay in the line-up. If Stepan makes a mistake on the wrong side of the puck he will be playing with Rupp and Asham, period. When you are playing for something like the Rangers have the past two seasons it is a lot more impotant that you take care of all three zones on the rink, and if you watch Eberle play you would understand what I am talking about. Stepan with about 3 weeks left in the season last year led the entire league in the plus minus category.

I think it's time to lay of the 22 year old and address the real problems on this team such as our star goalie to this point has been awful, our 22 million dollar line has been awful and our 1-2 d-men have been awful. Why don't you guys make a "Hank thread". That is a bigger problem than the 22 year old who by the way is 4th on the team in scoring.
Thank you. Other things to put into perspective:

Cap hit- 875,000
Expected role- #2C
Draft position-51st overall

Honestly, I feel like most of the unfair criticism comes from unfair expectations. Yes he has had success in the past, but he's not a lottery pick making 4 mil a year, expected to be our #1 center.

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Old
02-01-2013, 03:52 PM
  #390
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Hockey stats? To evaluate hockey players? Insanity.

Everyone knows that reaching into your gut and evaluating how that player makes you feel is the only way to evaluate a player.

Side note: I am extremely interested to see how Corey Perry makes you feel: or ?
Love this post.

I bet he really liked Enver Lisin. He looked like a good hockey player.

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Old
02-01-2013, 03:54 PM
  #391
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Love this post.

I bet he really liked Enver Lisin. He looked like a good hockey player.
Enver Lisin sucked then, sucks now, and will continue to suck.

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02-01-2013, 03:55 PM
  #392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
Do you actually watch hockey, or just read the box scores after the game?

Gaborik-Richards-Nash
Callahan-J. Jokinen-Hagelin
Pyatt-Stepan-Kreider
Rupp-Halpern-Asham

Perfect combination of grit and talent. Looks good to me..
No. I make all of my judgments entirely based off of the feedback I get around this board, and the things my dead gerbil whispers in my ear when it gets quiet in the night.

..what's that, Mr. Wiggles? Yeah, I think we're done here too.

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02-01-2013, 03:57 PM
  #393
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
No. I make all of my judgments entirely based off of the feedback I get around this board, and the things my dead gerbil whispers in my ear when it gets quiet in the night.

..what's that, Mr. Wiggles? Yeah, I think we're done here too.
Epic post is epic.

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Old
02-01-2013, 04:01 PM
  #394
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No. I make all of my judgments entirely based off of the feedback I get around this board, and the things my dead gerbil whispers in my ear when it gets quiet in the night.

..what's that, Mr. Wiggles? Yeah, I think we're done here too.
I have no idea what I just read but my lol for the day has been provided.

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Old
02-01-2013, 04:41 PM
  #395
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How about throwing a complete monkey wrench into the lines if things are still not working by the time Cally gets back?

Double shift Gabs and Nash and go with three lines. At least you can roll 3, really roll 3 lines.

Something unexpected like:

Gaborik Richards Callahan

Hagelin Stepan Nash

Pyatt Boyle Nash/Gaborik

Oh wait, isnt he already doing that for one period a game?

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02-01-2013, 05:01 PM
  #396
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Lets see here.

Nash, Stepan, Girardi, Boyle, Ferriero, McDonagh, Hagelin, Stralman, and Halpern have a combined 118 shots on net.

Result? 1 goal. A shooting percentage of 0.8%

But yea, the teams struggles are clearly just Stepans.

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02-01-2013, 05:05 PM
  #397
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
Lets see here.

Nash, Stepan, Girardi, Boyle, Ferriero, McDonagh, Hagelin, Stralman, and Halpern have a combined 118 shots on net.

Result? 1 goal. A shooting percentage of 0.8%

But yea, the teams struggles are clearly just Stepans.
DEFLECT DEFLECT DEFLECT!!!!

I apologize if I hold Stepan to a higher standard than Ben Ferreiro or Jeff Halpern.

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Old
02-01-2013, 05:07 PM
  #398
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
DEFLECT DEFLECT DEFLECT!!!!

I apologize if I hold Stepan to a higher standard than Ben Ferreiro or Jeff Halpern.

Ferreiro and Halpern also only have 8 shots combined.

Even Gaborik's 20.8% shooting is not particularly great. There are 23 other players in the league with 4+ goals with a higher shooting percentage.

This team may not be getting a ton of chances, but when they get chances they have not put the puck in the net.

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02-01-2013, 05:10 PM
  #399
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Originally Posted by slipknottin View Post
Ferreiro and Halpern also only have 8 shots combined.
Thats wonderful. Thank you for that.

Point is, this thread is here because Derek Stepan is the key focal point to the secondary scoring this team will need. What do I care that Anton Stralman or Brian Boyle aren't scoring goals?? Their primary job is to stop the opposition from doing so.

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02-01-2013, 05:11 PM
  #400
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Thats wonderful. Thank you for that.

Point is, this thread is here because Derek Stepan is the key focal point to the secondary scoring this team will need. What do I care that Anton Stralman or Brian Boyle aren't scoring goals?? Their primary job is to stop the opposition from doing so.
Yea you are right, secondary scoring isnt provided by players other than the first line. Its only provided by Stepan. My mistake.

Why dont we instead talk about how Pyatt has as many goals as Richards and Nash combined? Pyatt isnt a secondary scorer though, because his name is Pyatt, not Stepan.

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