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Game 8: Blues at Red Wings 2/1/13 at 6:30 CST

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Old
02-01-2013, 03:09 PM
  #51
Honeycutt
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
Cole has a sense of entitlement? Do you have any evidence, any incidents, ANYTHING to base that claim on?

Maybe some fans have projected him into the top pairing before he earned it, but I can't recall anything but professionalism from Cole, including when we is a healthy scratch, which I'm sure is pretty frustrating for any player.
The blues wanted him to come out of college one year before he did so he could go to the AHL. He said no i will only go for a guarenteed nhl spot. the blues said have fun at ND. Now 5 1/2 years later he is still a tweener.

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02-01-2013, 03:14 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by Honeycutt View Post
The blues wanted him to come out of college one year before he did so he could go to the AHL. He said no i will only go for a guarenteed nhl spot. the blues said have fun at ND. Now 5 1/2 years later he is still a tweener.
Does Tarasenko have a sense of entitlement, too? They wanted him to come sooner and he signed the KHL contract instead, even opted not to buy out his last year.

I have no inside info on it, but I think you can interpret that Cole situation more than one way....and kind of extreme to tarnish him 5 1/2 years later on a decision he made as a teenager. You could just as easily say, "With how long he's taken to break into the NHL he was right to continue his development in college for an extra year before joining a men's pro league."

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02-01-2013, 03:17 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
Does Tarasenko have a sense of entitlement, too? They wanted him to come sooner and he signed the KHL contract instead, even opted not to buy out his last year.

I have no inside info on it, but I think you can interpret that Cole situation more than one way....and kind of extreme to tarnish him 5 1/2 years later on a decision he made as a teenager. You could just as easily say, "With how long he's taken to break into the NHL he was right to continue his development in college for an extra year before joining a men's pro league."
Tarasenko has delivered and was developing in the second best league in the world. Cole was playing NCAA. A little bit different. I can't say for sure, but i believe i remember hearing that the Blues were not to happy that Cole stayed at ND. (that could not be accurate though).

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02-01-2013, 03:20 PM
  #54
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So I figured out why Detroit has been playing better since they last played the Blues:

Ian White and Carlo Colaiacovo are both out of the line-up.

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02-01-2013, 03:20 PM
  #55
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Wait...You're basing part of your opinion on a kid choosing to stay in college?

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02-01-2013, 03:23 PM
  #56
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I would absolutely love Cole to be Jackman-esque, except with a little more offense.

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02-01-2013, 03:26 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by bluesfan94 View Post
I would absolutely love Cole to be Jackman-esque, except with a little more offense.

I can see that happening. I didn't focus too much on Cole last night, can anybody tell me know they think he played? TIA

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Old
02-01-2013, 03:28 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
Wait...You're basing part of your opinion on a kid choosing to stay in college?
Yeah, all decisoins have consequences. Ian Cole has a long life to live and for his life he made the smart choice to stay in school, however for his hockey career the decision has been questionable. How much more could he have developed hockey wise if he would have followed the Blues advice and come out of school and gone to the AHL. He could have always go back and finished his degree, but he wanted a guarenteed NHL spot, and the Blues rightfully so said no. I am not attacking his life decisions, however all decisions have consequences. Just like how EJ made a bad hockey decision by playing golf cart polo. No one knows how much better he could have been with out that decision.

I feel this topic is taking away from the GDT. So if you want to discuss it further lets do it by PM. In the mean time like i always say if cole proves me wrong (which there is a good chance of that) i will definetly come here and take my lumps from you guys. After all we all just hockey fans discussing hockey and its players and there is no personal dislike for ian cole.

BLUES WIN!!

Cole scores and i eat crow!!

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02-01-2013, 03:29 PM
  #59
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I think some posters may be projecting fans opinions of cole as cole's personality.

It's hard to tell with cole. His issue is consistency. He could be a top 4 for sure, but wether or not he's going to give a better performance than Redden (or Russel for that matter) depends on something that we can't predict. Leave it up to the coaches, right? I don't think it has anything to do with Russell's relationship with Hitch, or we'd have seen him paired with Pietrangelo over Cole and Redden.

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02-01-2013, 03:29 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by newfy View Post
Wings fan coming in peace, but youre not going to hear from the league for trying to line up a big hit and missing. I do actually want Tootoo to fight Reaves tonight because of that history between them and kind of clear the air on that. I want Tootoo to become a bit more respectale and it starts with taking your lumps, even if its frmo a bigger guy like Reaves. After 2 good fights last game for the wings I doubt he fights again tonight though.

Not gonna predict a winner but I will predict a much closer game and maybe a Nichol and Abdelkader fight, those 2 dont really like each other!
No I can't say I realistically expected it, but I don't want it happening. I don't like Tootoo or his game, but a clear the air fight is fine.

I can't honestly say good luck, but I do hope for no injuries and a good game.

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02-01-2013, 03:36 PM
  #61
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oh look, Cole-haters are back!
saying he can't replace Russell on the 3rd pairing coz he is nothing more than a 3rd pairing D-man? alright!
bashing him for a decision long time ago because of developement and now 5 1/2 yrs later you guys saying he hasn't developed enough to be an NHL defender? ok.

hate as much as you want, he played fine on the 1st pairing, silly to think he couldn't play good enough for the 3rd...even if I have to admit that I don't really like to see him paired with Polak

lurking the wings GDT and it seems they fell in love with this Tootoo guy.
wasn't is some kind of a motto for them not to need fighters like him over the last few years?
anyway, they think he should drop em as soon as the puck is on the ice to send a message and I agree with them. Reaves needs to go right after him to make some statement aswell.

i see a pretty close one, could end in a loss but as long as the good guys stay focused we still have the better team and should bring it home.

LET'S GO BLUES!

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02-01-2013, 03:41 PM
  #62
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I want to see a Cole / Polak 3rd pairing. That's a strong pair. Do it now so they can gain continuity for the playoffs. Then occasionally, Russel can fill in for Cole, and Cole can fill in for Redden to keep them fresh.

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Old
02-01-2013, 03:46 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluesman91 View Post
I look at Cole as an AHL player (for now at least). I've said it for years now, I don't see much in him at all. Lol keep bringing up the ONE game he played like an NHL caliber defenseman. He hasn't been that bad this year but again nothing great.

An actually there is an argument for him getting a spot on this team. What has he done? If he warranted a spot I'm sure Hitch would have give him a permanent spot, but you know what? He hasn't which is why he is in the pressbox.

His defensive game right now is far from superior to Russell's. It will be better but that is because of the ype of game they play. Russell can pick pucks from board battles really well and his puck moving abilities far surpass Ian "No look pass" Cole. Russell is a clear cut better player than Cole, if it weren't, Hitch would made it be heard.

I never said Russell was anything more than a 3rd pairing defenseman, but you make it sound like he deserves to be a 1st or 2nd line defenseman and take control of that defensive pairing. So Russell may be undersized and an average defender but you could say the same about Sobotka. Russell may be small but he throws his body around more than you think.

I'm not sure what your man crush with Cole is, but not every player can be as good as their hype. Cole will be an average defenseman in his career. I see him having a Jackman type career, which isn't bad, but it isn't what most people are looking for out of him.
I really hate when people do this, but this post certainly warrants it: Have you actually watched the games? This is an honest question, because your portrayal of Russell and Cole's game thus far is quite far from reality. Cole has been unbelievably steady this season, something that certainly can't be said of Russell. He has not made a decision that cost the team a goal this season, something else than cannot be said of Russell. Cole has played circles around Russell this season. When Russell is not on his game, as has been the case the last few games, it's tough to watch. He has literally nothing to fall back on if he can't pick pucks out of the corner or make a good pass up the ice. That's his whole game. Cole, at the very least, will always bring a physical presence to the game. Russell throws his body around a little against smaller forwards, but Cole is strong enough to take on just about anyone in a battle. I really don't understand the Cole hate this season. Last season is was warranted at times, but I cannot honestly grasp how anyone could think Russell has been the better of the two this season. Or how it could even be considered close. Russell needs to be in the press box for a few games.

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02-01-2013, 03:47 PM
  #64
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You can't expect much out of Cole other than to try and sit back and be in the right spots which I think he has done a fine job of so far. Petro is obviously the more offensive of the two and the job of his pairing partner is to be responsible so Petro can join in on the offense.

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02-01-2013, 03:53 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by trevorftw View Post
I think some posters may be projecting fans opinions of cole as cole's personality.

It's hard to tell with cole. His issue is consistency. He could be a top 4 for sure, but wether or not he's going to give a better performance than Redden (or Russel for that matter) depends on something that we can't predict. Leave it up to the coaches, right? I don't think it has anything to do with Russell's relationship with Hitch, or we'd have seen him paired with Pietrangelo over Cole and Redden.
My analysis of Cole has nothing to do with his personality. In fact I think he's a pretty funny and cool guy judging by his tweets and interview snippets. I base my analysis off of what I have seen from Cole.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frostyflo View Post
oh look, Cole-haters are back!
saying he can't replace Russell on the 3rd pairing coz he is nothing more than a 3rd pairing D-man? alright!
bashing him for a decision long time ago because of developement and now 5 1/2 yrs later you guys saying he hasn't developed enough to be an NHL defender? ok.

hate as much as you want, he played fine on the 1st pairing, silly to think he couldn't play good enough for the 3rd...even if I have to admit that I don't really like to see him paired with Polak

lurking the wings GDT and it seems they fell in love with this Tootoo guy.
wasn't is some kind of a motto for them not to need fighters like him over the last few years?
anyway, they think he should drop em as soon as the puck is on the ice to send a message and I agree with them. Reaves needs to go right after him to make some statement aswell.

i see a pretty close one, could end in a loss but as long as the good guys stay focused we still have the better team and should bring it home.

LET'S GO BLUES!
Now you are just putting words in my mouth. On this team especially just because you play one line doesn't mean that's where you deserve to be on a traditional hockey team. Cole plays 1st line because Pietrangelo is good enough to pick up the slack, the worst defenseman will always play with Pietrangelo.

I never said he couldn't replace Russell on the 3rd pairing, what I was saying it is unlikely in terms of team make-up, experience, and the type of game they play.

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Old
02-01-2013, 04:16 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Bluesman91 View Post
My analysis of Cole has nothing to do with his personality. In fact I think he's a pretty funny and cool guy judging by his tweets and interview snippets. I base my analysis off of what I have seen from Cole.


Now you are just putting words in my mouth. On this team especially just because you play one line doesn't mean that's where you deserve to be on a traditional hockey team. Cole plays 1st line because Pietrangelo is good enough to pick up the slack, the worst defenseman will always play with Pietrangelo.

I never said he couldn't replace Russell on the 3rd pairing, what I was saying it is unlikely in terms of team make-up, experience, and the type of game they play.
maybe I got you wrong and if so I'm sorry for that but while I don't disagree with your statement about Petros partners, especially when I think of Cola and Husky, I also can't agree.
Petro is so good he actually can carry a bad partner and make him look good, at least for some games but thats not the whole story why the pairings are as they are. Jax and Shatty, Russell and Polak just fit together well and found some chemistry. but both Redden and Cole have shown they ARE NHL defenders and I just don't get whats wrong with a little rotating to keep some pressure on all guys and also to keep em fresh.

its just the senseless bashing on players that play well that make me go nuts, especially on young players (also see Schwartz)

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02-01-2013, 04:20 PM
  #67
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Let's Go Blues!! Let this be the year Detroit misses the playoffs!

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02-01-2013, 04:39 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by frostyflo View Post
its just the senseless bashing on players that play well that make me go nuts, especially on young players (also see Schwartz)
Actually Schwartz was one of the players I defended in the Wild GDT when people said he needs to be replaced because he isn't producing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
I really hate when people do this, but this post certainly warrants it: Have you actually watched the games? This is an honest question, because your portrayal of Russell and Cole's game thus far is quite far from reality. Cole has been unbelievably steady this season, something that certainly can't be said of Russell. He has not made a decision that cost the team a goal this season, something else than cannot be said of Russell. Cole has played circles around Russell this season. When Russell is not on his game, as has been the case the last few games, it's tough to watch. He has literally nothing to fall back on if he can't pick pucks out of the corner or make a good pass up the ice. That's his whole game. Cole, at the very least, will always bring a physical presence to the game. Russell throws his body around a little against smaller forwards, but Cole is strong enough to take on just about anyone in a battle. I really don't understand the Cole hate this season. Last season is was warranted at times, but I cannot honestly grasp how anyone could think Russell has been the better of the two this season. Or how it could even be considered close. Russell needs to be in the press box for a few games.

Yes I have watched the games, have you? Nothing to fall back on really? Go watch the Chicago game highlights. Kris Russell relies on his speed and puck control, he may step up or get beat but you can sure as hell count on him to make it back in time to cut off a passing lane or put pressure on the puck carrier. What does Cole have to fall back on when he can't pin someone up against the boards? And he hasn't even made an impressive hit this season that warrants a title of physical domination over Kris Russell.


Who pinched up that ended up leading the Hawks to 3-0? Ian Cole. To say he has done nothing wrong is absurd.


In fact Cole got laid out last night by Dubinsky.

http://video.blues.nhl.com/videocent...=CBJ18&lang=en

I'm not trying to say Ian Cole is a bad player. I'm saying he isn't going to be as good as most of you are expecting him to be. To me he's been nearly invisible out there other than Tarasenko's first goal. I haven't seen physically dominant plays by him that players like Polak and Jackman have been making, I haven't seen any impressive blocked shots or offensive rush break-ups either. He has been mediocre.

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02-01-2013, 04:39 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Bluesman91 View Post
I'm not sure what your man crush with Cole is, but not every player can be as good as their hype. Cole will be an average defenseman in his career. I see him having a Jackman type career, which isn't bad, but it isn't what most people are looking for out of him.
Which is almost precisely what he has been billed as since the year after the Blues picked him.
Jackman with better speed, a little more offense (due to a better shot and a bit more awareness), and the ability to fill in on the top pairing but better as the compliment to Shattenkirk.

He appears on track for that role and unless traded will likely take it over in another year or so when Jackman's contract expires.

Frankly, most of the fans on here do not seem to have much higher expectations for Cole. A comfortable top 4 defenseman who can play the physical role required and can be moved to a top 2 in certain situations.


*edit* I do hope Cole learns from Jackman on how to be a complete thorn in the side of the opposing forwards. I am convinced Jackman learned some of this from Pronger and having a full time defenseman who makes the opposition lose focus is a wonderful thing.

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02-01-2013, 04:43 PM
  #70
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Go Blues Go!!! You guys are my favourite western conference team. Its going to suck next year when were in the same conference and ill be forced to hate you guys.

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02-01-2013, 04:45 PM
  #71
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Which is almost precisely what he has been billed as since the year after the Blues picked him.
Jackman with better speed, a little more offense (due to a better shot and a bit more awareness), and the ability to fill in on the top pairing but better as the compliment to Shattenkirk.

He appears on track for that role and unless traded will likely take it over in another year or so when Jackman's contract expires.

Frankly, most of the fans on here do not seem to have much higher expectations for Cole. A comfortable top 4 defenseman who can play the physical role required and can be moved to a top 2 in certain situations.
I would be happy if Cole turned out like I said he would, but the expectations I feel I get from some of these Blues fans is that Cole is going to be obviously not Pietrangelo level, but more of a #2 guy that can be relied on game in game out. I see him as more of a #5/6 guy but playing as a #2/4 guy.

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02-01-2013, 04:48 PM
  #72
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Tootoo won't fight fights he knows he is going to lose. Tootoo is one of the most classless pieces of trash in the NHL. I label him as Sean Avery 2.0. Tootoo will never fight Reaves because Reaves would demolish him in a fight.
Tootoo isnt comprable to Avery. Tootoo constantly takes on guys bigger then him and doesnt mind it. He does cross the line a bit but hes been better lately and is turning into more of a hockey player instead of a meat head.

When Avery has fights with Bollig, Staubitz, Boll and Barch then you can say he will never fight guys bigger and tougher than him and compare him to Avery. Took on a 6'4 kid last game whose a fighter as well. At least he will back up his antics.

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02-01-2013, 04:51 PM
  #73
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In fact Cole got laid out last night by Dubinsky.
I cannot see the video due to some amusing issues with this connection, however I can only presume this was the hit behind the goal early-ish in the game (either just before or just after Berglund's goal) would this be correct?

If so, Cole was attempting to play the puck behind the net (slowing down in the process) when Dubinsky had full momentum.
That play happens a lot, in particular to younger defensemen who are not used to the strength NHL players have.
Rare is the more physical defenseman who does not have this happen to them regularly the first few years (Jackman did this constantly playing beside big Al).

Some of your points have merit, however cherry-picking and exacerbating common issues does not seem to be the best way of showing it.

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02-01-2013, 04:55 PM
  #74
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Not sure I understand the Cole hate, its damn hard to establish yourself as the 7th guy going up and down, playing with new partners nightly, playing different roles on different teams.Yes, he has been a bit invisible when he has played, but you've got to like the potential that he has. He is a great athlete who has had solid offensive production at lower levels of hockey. Not every player establishes themselves in the NHL by age 23, especially defensemen.

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02-01-2013, 04:55 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Bluesman91 View Post
I would be happy if Cole turned out like I said he would, but the expectations I feel I get from some of these Blues fans is that Cole is going to be obviously not Pietrangelo level, but more of a #2 guy that can be relied on game in game out. I see him as more of a #5/6 guy but playing as a #2/4 guy.
I am relatively sure he will be the #4 guy. His career track makes sense to be this as does his skillset.
Obviously at this point we are simply arguing over whether he is bottom pairing or middle pairing. He should not be filling in at the #2 spot unless an injury occurs and he will not be a #6 unless Edmundson takes a massive leap forward in development.

Honestly, having watched a few Peoria games, I think Cole will improve now that he is no longer on the Rivermen. I cannot help but suspect that they are actually doing more harm than good to the Blues' developing players...might be a reason to let the prospects mature in Europe instead of enticing them to play for the AHL.

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