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Trade Rumour Thread II: TraDe for Every111!!

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Old
02-01-2013, 04:17 PM
  #176
DelZottoHitTheNetJK
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
1) How did you know I was currently holding my keyboard in the air. Are you watching me?

2) You want to move a former 1st rounder + a pick for a 3rd liner? And the Rangers are not stacked on defense. Sauer will not be coming back.
Girardi-McDonagh
Del Zotto-Staal
Gilroy-Stralman

+ Lundqvist

is an elite D core IMO

Is it confirmed that Sauer is done?

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02-01-2013, 04:21 PM
  #177
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Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
With Jokinen at center we are extremely deep down the middle. I think Carolina takes Skjei + 3rd all day long given their current C depth. For them it's trading from a place of strength to add to a place of weakness. I'd think they'd probably want McIlrath instead which I'm fine with. A guy like Jokinen on this team would put up SOLID numbers and infuse some much needed speed/offensive creativity into the lineup. Takes a lot of pressure off of the top line and will be a nightmare for the other team's D to match up
As stated, Carolina is strong on D and weak at C. Why do you think they're shifting a guy who has been a top-six LW for several years at C right now? Because they lack C depth. Meanwhile they have NHL dmen sitting out. Moreover, I wouldn't do McI straight up as it just neglects our long-term needs and deviates from the plan too much.

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02-01-2013, 04:21 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
Girardi-McDonagh
Del Zotto-Stralman
Gilroy-Anything except Bickel (Does it really matter? torts is gonna play the 3rd pair 8 min a game anyway)

Is it confirmed that Sauer is done?
Where is Staal?

Yes, Cerny has pretty much said the Rangers do not expect him to play at all this season. He has not started skating or working out at all since the hit. It would take him many months to get back in shape, let alone skating.

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Old
02-01-2013, 04:24 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
As stated, Carolina is strong on D and weak at C. Why do you think they're shifting a guy who has been a top-six LW for several years at C right now? Because they lack C depth. Meanwhile they have NHL dmen sitting out. Moreover, I wouldn't do McI straight up as it just neglects our long-term needs and deviates from the plan too much.
Carolina is one of the deepest teams in the league at C.. Staal-Staal-Jokinen is a top 3 center core any team in the league would die for

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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Where is Staal?

Yes, Cerny has pretty much said the Rangers do not expect him to play at all this season. He has not started skating or working out at all since the hit. It would take him many months to get back in shape, let alone skating.
Edited.. accidentally posted before i was done

Sucks about Sauer. He really rounds out or D but I still think we're fine in that area without him

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02-01-2013, 04:26 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
Carolina is one of the deepest teams in the league at C.. Staal-Staal-Jokinen is a top 3 center core any team in the league would die for



Edited.. accidentally posted before i was done

Sucks about Sauer. He really rounds out or D but I still think we're fine in that area without him
If Sauer were legitimately healthy the Rangers would be okay on defense. However in a couple of years Girardi and Staal are UFA's. You can't assume they will stay in NY.

Not a good idea to trade away prospects after the organizational depth is already a bit thin from the Nash trade.

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Old
02-01-2013, 04:30 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
Carolina is one of the deepest teams in the league at C.. Staal-Staal-Jokinen is a top 3 center core any team in the league would die for



Edited.. accidentally posted before i was done

Sucks about Sauer. He really rounds out or D but I still think we're fine in that area without him
But Jokinen is not a center anymore. Kind of like Dubinsky was a LW when he left. If they have shifted Jokinen to center its because they have no other options. When you're taking a guy who has been a fixture in your top six for years on the wing and shifting him back to a position he hasn't played in years, that's the opposite of deep. Sheesh. Can I make this more clear?

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02-01-2013, 04:30 PM
  #182
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I want McBain and more forward depth.

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Old
02-01-2013, 04:31 PM
  #183
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How about this then:

JT Miller +3rd for Jokinen?

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02-01-2013, 04:32 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
How about this then:

JT Miller +3rd for Jokinen?
The Rangers really aren't in a position to deal their top prospects. There is a salary cap and they will need those young players on their ELC's.

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02-01-2013, 04:32 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
How about this then:

JT Miller +3rd for Jokinen?
No to Jokinen. At least he shouldnt be our 1st, 2nd, 3rd option. He really didnt do much here last time around. They need a gritty forward whether they are a scorer or not but someone reliable.

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02-01-2013, 04:40 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
No to Jokinen. At least he shouldnt be our 1st, 2nd, 3rd option. He really didnt do much here last time around. They need a gritty forward whether they are a scorer or not but someone reliable.
Different Jokinen.

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02-01-2013, 04:41 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by MPF24 View Post
But Jokinen is not a center anymore. Kind of like Dubinsky was a LW when he left. If they have shifted Jokinen to center its because they have no other options. When you're taking a guy who has been a fixture in your top six for years on the wing and shifting him back to a position he hasn't played in years, that's the opposite of deep. Sheesh. Can I make this more clear?
If the guy was drafted as a Center and can play center, I don't care that he "hasn't been a center for the past few years." He didn't forget how to play C trust me he's a professional hockey player. Miller + 3rd gives Carolina a C prospect who isn't far off

Quote:
Originally Posted by RGY View Post
No to Jokinen. At least he shouldnt be our 1st, 2nd, 3rd option. He really didnt do much here last time around. They need a gritty forward whether they are a scorer or not but someone reliable.
For the love of all that is good.. I mean Jussi Jokinen

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02-01-2013, 04:44 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
If the guy was drafted as a Center and can play center, I don't care that he "hasn't been a center for the past few years." He didn't forget how to play C trust me he's a professional hockey player. Miller + 3rd gives Carolina a C prospect who isn't far off



For the love of all that is good.. I mean Jussi Jokinen
What you care about and what is reality don't necessarily have anything to do with each other. The reason he was moved away from center early in his career was because he was not effective there. He was moved to the wing and flourished and that is his position now. If you want to have a sub-par psuedo-center we can acquire one for a lot less than Jussi Jokinen in terms of assets and dollars. Why would we move Miller and a 3rd for Jokinen to be a subpar third line center for us when Miller will likely be our third line center next year and for several years after? If you want Jokinen to add creativity to the top-six, it's an understandable proposal but I'm not sure we can afford it. If you want Jokinen because you think he's a center because he's filling in there while Carolina has injuries, I don't really need to waste any more time arguing with you. Jokinen is not the answer to our center depth.

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Old
02-01-2013, 05:00 PM
  #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WojtekGoalski View Post
If the guy was drafted as a Center and can play center, I don't care that he "hasn't been a center for the past few years." He didn't forget how to play C trust me he's a professional hockey player. Miller + 3rd gives Carolina a C prospect who isn't far off



For the love of all that is good.. I mean Jussi Jokinen
Relax. I didn't read the previous page. And now that its been specified which one you are talking about your trade proposal is a travesty.

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Old
02-01-2013, 05:23 PM
  #190
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Elite D-Core ?!? What are you guys smoking?

We have 4, 2-3 D-man. No real number one has yet came out of the bunch that is Danny G, Ryan McD, Staal and DelZ ...

Stralman played good againt Pit last night ... solid #5 but thats it.

We gave up to much depth for Nash.

Whoever hoped the Asham, Rupp and Halpern could fill up the spot, was dropped as a child ... Borderline AHL ... you know it.


The only way I see something going is to trade Richards or Gaborik for young depth players. Nash is by far our best players ... Gabo is too streaky and Richards blows these days ... talking bout' Redemption ...

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Old
02-01-2013, 06:24 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by RGY View Post
Relax. I didn't read the previous page. And now that its been specified which one you are talking about your trade proposal is a travesty.
Lol I didn't mean to come off as mean I just put emphasis there because I didn't want olli jokinen for free haha

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02-01-2013, 06:32 PM
  #192
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Many of the issues people are calling out have existed for much longer than these 7 games. That said, the people in the trade Stepan and fire Torts crowds need to step back from the ledge a bit. It has been said for years, however, that this system stifles creativity. It doesn't mean it doesn't work, but it is a valid criticism of the Torts brand of hockey we have. However, saying "this team" was in the ECF last year and first in the East is a fallacy. Only in name is it true. There has been a good amount of roster turnover; this team hasn't proven anything. The team that made it to the ECF was actually a deeper team than this one, and it had a much stronger identity and played a specific system to near perfection. The reason it didn't make the SCF is probably because it ran out of gas by burning out its top players, especially on defense, with huge minutes down the stretch. That's an issue that looks not only to continue this season, but actually be worse as we are thinner up front and we're still playing our top two pairings 50 minutes a night. But this team not only lacks depth, it lacks that adhesion to the system that made it successful in years past. Yes, absolutely, part of that is the new pieces needing time to pick it up and perfect it. But part of it was that the pieces were the right pieces last year. Asham is never going replace Prust. Pyatt's role is different from any role that was played last year. This is not the same team that was so close to the SCF; all bets are off.

And moreover, it's more than likely, and I have been suggesting from the get go, that while this team IS a good hockey team, we over-performed last season. Hagelin is not going to produce at the rate he did last season. Callahan had a career year; I will bet someone a Rangers jersey that when Callahan retires we will look back on '11-12 as his best offensive season. Dubinsky, who people were happy to be rid of, had a career worst year. Yeah, now he's in Columbus, it will be hard to judge his offensive stats and he may continue not to produce, but he had been a very strong contributor for us every year until last. Kreider still has every chance in the world to be a good player for us, not just in the future, but later this year when he's healthy. That said, he's not going to light up the world like we hoped and he's not really as ready as we thought. I'd like to see him get legitimate top-six minutes because I think that's the only way to gauge if he's really going to be effective this year or not; playing him on the third line, as it's assembled, is a waste. That all said, Richards is a year older and, while still plenty good, we can hardly expect him to get better. Some of our guys over-performed and other guys (Dubi) we underestimated the importance of because they under performed. We lost center depth, and overall forward depth, and we have some unresolved issues that really should have been addressed in the off-season.

After the playoff game where Bickel played 3 minutes in a night where Girardi and McDonagh were forced to play over 50 each (OT game in round 2) it should have been clear and obvious that we would be adding a d-man in the offseason. Somehow, we didn't. Why? Rupp and Asham put forth noble efforts and Rupp is a likable guy and probably a great teammate, but both are past their sell-by dates. Signing Brashear was a mistake. We followed it up by signing Boogard, which was a mistake. We followed it up by signing Rupp, which was a mistake and he's still here and somehow we signed Asham but not that important #6 dman. Why? None of them panned out. It should be obvious that the Prust/Ferriero mold (younger, faster) is what works for Torts' system and the old, slow guys are not a solution for us but it, apparently, isn't. Why? There are genuine issues that exist with this team. I hear you when you say you can't stand our fanbase right now and people are crazy. But that's also not to say you can dismiss some of the genuine arguments that are being made and that have been presented going back to last year and beyond.

I still disagree about the system stifling creativity on offense. The guys who put up solid offense last year were able to be creative. Would Gaborik have scored 50 or 60 on a team that allowed for creativity? Would MDZ have had 50 or 60 points? I doubt it. This team doesn't have a ton of very creative players, but the ones that are here seem to be able to figure out how to showcase their talents and put up points. However, when this team sucks, when they're burnt out or not on the same page, they dump and chase and fail. We've already seen it in 7 games. When they played well they were confident and creative and they were successful on offense. When they came out flat and looked tired they dumped and chased and did nothing. I doubt Torts is saying "hey guys, don't try to be smart to put up points," it seems way more likely that this team, when they're desperate and/or off their groove, resort to that type of horrible hockey.

I agree that the system and lineup may be genuine problems with this team this year, but my argument is that these 7 games are all we have to base that on and they are not at all normal. Most players didn't know the season was even happening until a week or so before it started. Camp was short. Preseason was non existent. Compare that to the usual schedule where players would be conditioning all off-season knowing that they were going to get worked like dogs in camp, where the team would have had weeks to work on strategy and then experiment with different ideas and different lineups in games that meant nothing. It seems to me that this unusual start could really throw a few teams off. I think NYR are one of those teams. Again, it's possible that I'm wrong and the lineup and strategy are flawed, but I'm not about to take the first 7 games under odd circumstances as irrefutable evidence of that.

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Old
02-01-2013, 08:07 PM
  #193
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Shane O'Brien has been a healthy scratch for most of the season...maybe they take Rupp and a pick for him...slids into the top 6.

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02-01-2013, 09:32 PM
  #194
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I think Gabby & Richards have NTC's ...so they are here to stay . Probably means Gabby walks away at next season end and we get nothing for him at the trade deadline .

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02-01-2013, 09:38 PM
  #195
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Elite D-Core ?!? What are you guys smoking?

We have 4, 2-3 D-man. No real number one has yet came out of the bunch that is Danny G, Ryan McD, Staal and DelZ ...

Stralman played good againt Pit last night ... solid #5 but thats it.

We gave up to much depth for Nash.

Whoever hoped the Asham, Rupp and Halpern could fill up the spot, was dropped as a child ... Borderline AHL ... you know it.


The only way I see something going is to trade Richards or Gaborik for young depth players. Nash is by far our best players ... Gabo is too streaky and Richards blows these days ... talking bout' Redemption ...
Let's just start from scratch again. We will call ourselves, the New York Tigers.

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02-01-2013, 10:01 PM
  #196
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I'd rather have 4 really good #2-#3 defensemen than one #1 defenseman and three #3-#5 defensemen playing in the top 4. I'm not sure what some here dont comprehend about that. Thats what makes it an elite 4. It is rounded out very well. We simply have not played our best hockey as a team.

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02-01-2013, 10:10 PM
  #197
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Of all the things, the top-4 D are the last thing I'm worried about

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02-01-2013, 10:20 PM
  #198
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Elite D-Core ?!? What are you guys smoking?

We have 4, 2-3 D-man. No real number one has yet came out of the bunch that is Danny G, Ryan McD, Staal and DelZ ...
McD isn't a #1, or Girardi? They're always on the ice for the opposing teams top lines, and it's just not because it's the best we can throw out. It's because they're one of the best pairings in the league. McD or Girardi would be number #1 on multiple teams.

Last year McDonagh was 15th in TOI, a +25, tied for 8th in blocked shots with 182, and had 32 points. Remember the playoffs too. Played a game where he almost played an hour.

Staal and DZ are perfect 3-4 guys. Staal can be a solid #2. He's played against the top lines before McDonagh showed up. He's capable of shutting down the opposition.

Quote:
Stralman played good againt Pit last night ... solid #5 but thats it.
Agreed.

Quote:
We gave up to much depth for Nash.

Whoever hoped the Asham, Rupp and Halpern could fill up the spot, was dropped as a child ... Borderline AHL ... you know it.


The only way I see something going is to trade Richards or Gaborik for young depth players. Nash is by far our best players ... Gabo is too streaky and Richards blows these days ... talking bout' Redemption ...
We gave up depth, but we almost fully covered it in signings. What's missing from that forth line is energy and a little more speed, in my opinion. They're flat. Mediocre fourth line. That's doable when you have a great top 6 like we do.

We have depth. As I mentioned in another thread, Pyatt's a solid third liner. If Kreider is half the player he was in last year's playoffs this season, our 2nd/3rd line is nasty. Hagelin is no pushover. Kreider and Hagelin are full of speed. Those guys can set the forecheck.

They just need to get going. Last year we were in the same boat as we are now but with higher expectations. It may even take longer with a shortened training camp. We need to find a energetic 4th liner who can take Rupp/Asham's spot.

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02-01-2013, 11:30 PM
  #199
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Rangers aren't in a position to do much now other than sign a UFA.

I'd target Antropov if the Jets start falling out of it. He shouldn't cost too much.

The problem is with the Rangers everyone knows how desperate they are for a #6 DMan and another scorer and everyone will be asking for their 2nd and 2 out of 3 of Kreider, Miller, Fasth which absolutely cannot and will not happen.

Still, coming into the season without a warm bodt as a #6 Dman if Torts had so little faith in Emminger is unacceptable.

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02-02-2013, 12:55 AM
  #200
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Rangers aren't in a position to do much now other than sign a UFA.

I'd target Antropov if the Jets start falling out of it. He shouldn't cost too much.

The problem is with the Rangers everyone knows how desperate they are for a #6 DMan and another scorer and everyone will be asking for their 2nd and 2 out of 3 of Kreider, Miller, Fasth which absolutely cannot and will not happen.

Still, coming into the season without a warm bodt as a #6 Dman if Torts had so little faith in Emminger is unacceptable.
That is absolutely not true. We're not looking to make a big acquisition where any of those players will even be in the conversation, let alone the asking price. We're talking about third line rental players here. Third round pick plus a conditional fifth. Things like that.

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