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Zack Kassian Appreciation Thread: Cody Who?

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Old
02-01-2013, 04:36 PM
  #651
Alan Jackson
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
It comes in waves. There was a lot of hand-wringing when he was on the ice for a ton of goals against and didn't score for a few games. Now he has a 3 point game thanks to Vanek and he's the golden boy again.
Considering Hodgson's an even player, he must have also been on for a lot of goals for, yes?

So are we blaming players for being on for goals against, but giving them no credit when they're on the ice for goals for? Does this rule apply to players on our team, too, or just players we've traded away?

Just trying to keep up with the criteria, that's all.

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02-01-2013, 04:38 PM
  #652
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Considering Hodgson's an even player, he must have also been on for a lot of goals for, yes?
Is Vanek scoring 15 points in 7 games sustainable? Because that's why he's currently even. Hodgson has 6 points, meanwhile Pominville and Vanek have 12 and 15.

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02-01-2013, 04:40 PM
  #653
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Neither is his .845 on ice EVSV% though. Hodgson sits somewhere in the middle of what people are saying.

So far he has played soft minutes with very unimpressive underlying numbers. The most concerning for me is his zone shift numbers - he's starting a lot in the offensive zone and finishing in the defensive zone. That said, we're dealing with small samples and that may be an anomaly.

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02-01-2013, 04:41 PM
  #654
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Is Vanek scoring 15 points in 7 games sustainable? Because that's why he's currently even.
Six of those 15 points have been on the powerplay.

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02-01-2013, 04:42 PM
  #655
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
Neither is his .845 on ice EVSV% though. Hodgson sits somewhere in the middle of what people are saying.

So far he has played soft minutes with very unimpressive underlying numbers. The most concerning for me is his zone shift numbers - he's starting a lot in the offensive zone and finishing in the defensive zone. That said, we're dealing with small samples and that may be an anomaly.
I haven't looked at the numbers but opendoor did the math last time and Hodgson was still looking at being on the ice for 80+ GA (including PK, PP, etc.) if that Sv% went up to into the normal range. They're giving up a lot of shots against while he's on the ice.

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02-01-2013, 04:42 PM
  #656
vadim sharifijanov
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Is Vanek scoring 15 points in 7 games sustainable? Because that's why he's currently even. Hodgson has 6 points, meanwhile Pominville and Vanek have 12 and 15.
i'm pretty sure that historically vanek usually starts off the season on fire, then has a freezing cold spell, then produces at his usual 35-40 goal pace for the rest of the year.

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02-01-2013, 04:48 PM
  #657
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
I haven't looked at the numbers but opendoor did the math last time and Hodgson was still looking at being on the ice for 80+ GA (including PK, PP, etc.) if that Sv% went up to into the normal range. They're giving up a lot of shots against while he's on the ice.
Only 29.2 per 60 mins of EV time. That's not even close to the worst on his own team - Gerbe, Grigorenko, Ott, and Pominville are worse. The PP is negligible. His PK numbers are average to below average, but you're also talking about a sample size of around 10 minutes of ice time. Plus the fact that he's being trusted to PK shouldn't really be used to bring him down.

(And, for what it's worth, there are 11 NHL teams that are giving up more than 29.2 SA per 60 mins).

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02-01-2013, 05:22 PM
  #658
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Originally Posted by pitseleh View Post
Only 29.2 per 60 mins of EV time. That's not even close to the worst on his own team - Gerbe, Grigorenko, Ott, and Pominville are worse. The PP is negligible. His PK numbers are average to below average, but you're also talking about a sample size of around 10 minutes of ice time. Plus the fact that he's being trusted to PK shouldn't really be used to bring him down.

(And, for what it's worth, there are 11 NHL teams that are giving up more than 29.2 SA per 60 mins).
We had this discussion earlier, too (and in the around-the-league thread, I think). Even Hodgson's career sample size is hardly big enough to draw very many meaningful conclusions from, but you can infer a few potential patterns.

His work in the defensive zone looks more lazy than clueless to me. That's something that will probably shape up as he progresses.

Edit: even if Hodgson is a bottom 10% defensive forward in the NHL, the ES SV% of Ryan Miller would still be 910-920 I'd think, because Miller is pretty good (above average usually, at any rate). Hodgson still doesn't look like a great possession player, but he's also a kind of unique kind of player. He's going to have to work very hard/be very smart to overcome some of his limitations as a player.


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Old
02-01-2013, 05:46 PM
  #659
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His work in the defensive zone looks more lazy than clueless to me. That's something that will probably shape up as he progresses.
That to me is the concern though and I've said as much. Over the past 3 years he hasn't shown any sign that he cares about playing solid defense or even trying to. It's easy to teach, it's hard to make somebody care.

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02-01-2013, 05:49 PM
  #660
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
Is Vanek scoring 15 points in 7 games sustainable? Because that's why he's currently even. Hodgson has 6 points, meanwhile Pominville and Vanek have 12 and 15.
reminds me very much of Brendan Morrison when he was with Bertuzzi and Naslund.

If Hodgson was put down to the second line, and even given second line power play time, he would produce at a 45 point a year pace. He isnt ready to be a 70 point guy on his own yet.

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02-01-2013, 05:50 PM
  #661
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Originally Posted by Tiranis View Post
That to me is the concern though and I've said as much. Over the past 3 years he hasn't shown any sign that he cares about playing solid defense or even trying to. It's easy to teach, it's hard to make somebody care.
I actually think he's probably over-trained strength in order to compensate for his back injury, and it's probably harmed his conditioning. He sometimes looks "lazy" because he's tired -- I noticed this last year, too.

Edit: I may be in the minority, but I would take a slightly lazy player who is smart over one who works hard and is clueless. The right coach can fix that easier than making someone smarter, in my opinion.

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02-01-2013, 05:59 PM
  #662
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Agree completely with this post. More to the point, if the trade had occured in reverse, and both players were playing exactly the same, a lot of these posters would be ripping Kassian and praising Hodgson. Cheering for laundry.
Are Buffalo fans ripping Kassian? Seems like that would be impossible right about now. If the Canucks traded Kassian for Hodgson, people would be going ballistic. Trading a tough young player for another soft point producer? Buffalo sees Foligno as being their Kassian so they were able to trade him. The Canucks had no one like Kassian before in the lineup. Trading Kassian would not have been an option for Vancouver. I think Buffalo is happy they got a point producer for a AHL player. That is how they remember Kassian. Hodgson this year is obviously better than Kassian was last year. So the Fans see the trade as an improvement. I hope they are happy because Kassian is going to be and might already be a special player.

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02-01-2013, 06:25 PM
  #663
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Originally Posted by Catamarca Livin View Post
Are Buffalo fans ripping Kassian? Seems like that would be impossible right about now. If the Canucks traded Kassian for Hodgson, people would be going ballistic. Trading a tough young player for another soft point producer? Buffalo sees Foligno as being their Kassian so they were able to trade him. The Canucks had no one like Kassian before in the lineup. Trading Kassian would not have been an option for Vancouver. I think Buffalo is happy they got a point producer for a AHL player. That is how they remember Kassian. Hodgson this year is obviously better than Kassian was last year. So the Fans see the trade as an improvement. I hope they are happy because Kassian is going to be and might already be a special player.
Look how many people have turned on Ehrhoff, though, after he left. It's not about who won the trade -- it's about how passionately people seem to be looking for flaws in Hodgson's game. I find it a bit strange this early in a season.

Edit: my point is mostly that I have no ill will towards Hodgson. Seems like a good kid, and I hope he has a great career (but maybe not quite as great as Kassian's...)


Last edited by Proto: 02-01-2013 at 06:34 PM.
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02-01-2013, 07:04 PM
  #664
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Well I guess that one Sabres poster can't complain about Canuck posters coming to their board & that Sabres fans don't do the same.

I don't understand the whole "get off my board" when we've made a trade that will link 2 young players for a while. I mean Hodgson's time here & how fast he built a following should show why even after he has been dealt why there will still be people talking about him.


For the record the thing that pissed me off about Ehrhoff was (like Hodgson) the lack of buying in like the rest of our core & the fact that after the 2011 Cup run he said it's "best chance for Cup"

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02-01-2013, 07:16 PM
  #665
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Well I guess that one Sabres poster can't complain about Canuck posters coming to their board & that Sabres fans don't do the same.

I don't understand the whole "get off my board" when we've made a trade that will link 2 young players for a while. I mean Hodgson's time here & how fast he built a following should show why even after he has been dealt why there will still be people talking about him.


For the record the thing that pissed me off about Ehrhoff was (like Hodgson) the lack of buying in like the rest of our core & the fact that after the 2011 Cup run he said it's "best chance for Cup"
I think Erhoff wanted out of Vancouver. He could have made a deal with Gillis for an entire year and refused to do so. He had no real intention of re signing with the canucks.

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02-01-2013, 07:36 PM
  #666
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Only 29.2 per 60 mins of EV time. That's not even close to the worst on his own team - Gerbe, Grigorenko, Ott, and Pominville are worse. The PP is negligible. His PK numbers are average to below average, but you're also talking about a sample size of around 10 minutes of ice time. Plus the fact that he's being trusted to PK shouldn't really be used to bring him down.

(And, for what it's worth, there are 11 NHL teams that are giving up more than 29.2 SA per 60 mins).
SA/60 is just saves though isn't it? Wouldn't you have to add in Hodgson's 5.40 GA/60 to his 29.4 SA/60 which brings him up to 34.8 shots against per 60? Those 2 totals work out to an .845 sv% so I assume that's correct.

So even with a .915 ES sv% he's looking at over 3 GA/60 with those shot totals.

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02-01-2013, 08:01 PM
  #667
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Originally Posted by opendoor View Post
SA/60 is just saves though isn't it? Wouldn't you have to add in Hodgson's 5.40 GA/60 to his 29.4 SA/60 which brings him up to 34.8 shots against per 60? Those 2 totals work out to an .845 sv% so I assume that's correct.

So even with a .915 ES sv% he's looking at over 3 GA/60 with those shot totals.
Good eye, I didn't even realize SA/60 was saves rather than shots.

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02-01-2013, 10:33 PM
  #668
Lonny Bohonos
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Nice guys. Yet another Hodgson thread.

Back to Kass.

And excellent pass out his zone to get a good play going. Cherry on top is his hustle to get into the play to almost finish said play.

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02-01-2013, 10:40 PM
  #669
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Dat Pass.

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02-01-2013, 10:41 PM
  #670
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I just came here to say I appreciate Zack Kassian. I cannot believe how great of a passer this kid is. Just got an assist on a beautiful pass.

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02-01-2013, 10:51 PM
  #671
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Don't forget the passes he made to the dmen for good one timers. Serious precision.

Kassian is not only getting decent looks, he's creating offence on his own.

Coming back to break up that play and then the solo rush......wowie!!!!

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02-01-2013, 10:54 PM
  #672
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I just came here to say I appreciate Zack Kassian. I cannot believe how great of a passer this kid is. Just got an assist on a beautiful pass.
Dat Pass by Dat Kass was just a glimpse of what hes capable of once he starts holding onto the puck more. That will come with maturity and experience.

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02-01-2013, 10:57 PM
  #673
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The passing should help him move into the upper echelon of Sedin wingers now that teams are aware of his goal scoring ability. It should hopefully free up Daniel for some more quality shots.

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02-01-2013, 10:57 PM
  #674
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Such a rare hockey player. Crazy for 22.

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02-01-2013, 10:59 PM
  #675
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Dat Pass by Dat Kass was just a glimpse of what hes capable of once he starts holding onto the puck more. That will come with maturity and experience.
I'll say it again...the soft hands, board play, and surprisingly deft passing is almost a clone of a young Todd Bertuzzi. That was a slick pass to Edler.

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