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Changing our draft strategy

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Old
02-01-2013, 03:42 PM
  #151
NYR1967
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
Absolutely horrendous! The last 10 have been modestly better at best.

Still can't understand the Mcilrath pick over Tarasenko, when Cherepanov passes...

People say forget Jessiman... ok, but how do you forget Sanguenetti over Giroux?

sorry, that's beyond bad. As much as i love the signings of Richards, Gaborik, Nash, if we were able to draft and develop some of our top 6 talent we'd have a lot more depth now as team overall.

lets see what happens with krieder, Hags, Stepan, and Miller...
I posted this earlier, but it bears repeating - No one knew what Giroux was going to be - Philly picked him as a consolation prize because the Rangers took the guy they wanted (Sanguinetti). If I remember correctly, Philly's GM couldn't even get Giroux's name right when he announced the pick because he was so upset at losing Sangs. It's not like Philly's management all started high fiving each other when the Rangers picked Sangs and passed on Giroux.

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02-01-2013, 03:43 PM
  #152
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Also, enough with this Stevens/Beuk projections for DM. For a number of reasons, but mostly because the game has changed. You need blueliners who can play a two way game, or at least play a heady transition game. Unless he's only playing a handful of minutes, which we hope that's not the case.

Adam McQuaid or a huge version of Barret Jackman would be nice.

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02-01-2013, 03:43 PM
  #153
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Why is it different? Lucic and Kassian seem to be doing just fine. Clowe has had a good career so far.
its different because at this point in his pro career, hockey IQ and skills become paramount to success. you want to be a player in this league, you will need both of those and some luck.

can he can play in the nhl with the skill set he has and his "intangibles" ? im pretty sure he can.

but can he be a difference maker and an impact player commensurate with the 10th pick of that deep draft ?

thats the rub.

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02-01-2013, 03:43 PM
  #154
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
I would understand it if the rangers had more scoring (at the time of the draft) but we lost a top prospect in Cherepanov, so imo Tarasenko was the pick to make.

How far off is McIlrath still?
My guess would be at least 2-3 years.

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02-01-2013, 03:44 PM
  #155
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
Absolutely horrendous! The last 10 have been modestly better at best.

Still can't understand the Mcilrath pick over Tarasenko, when Cherepanov passes...

People say forget Jessiman... ok, but how do you forget Sanguenetti over Giroux?

sorry, that's beyond bad. As much as i love the signings of Richards, Gaborik, Nash, if we were able to draft and develop some of our top 6 talent we'd have a lot more depth now as team overall.

lets see what happens with krieder, Hags, Stepan, and Miller...
Sanguinetti wasn't that bad of a pick at the time. Looking back, sure, but that's not fair. Giroux was a VERY undersized skilled forward. They bust all the time too.

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02-01-2013, 03:46 PM
  #156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
People say forget Jessiman... ok, but how do you forget Sanguenetti over Giroux?
Because they did exactly what people were clamoring for us to do with Tarasenko. I.e., take the highly ranked guy that was sliding down the draft board instead of the player they had their eye on at that spot.

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02-01-2013, 03:57 PM
  #157
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Because they did exactly what people were clamoring for us to do with Tarasenko. I.e., take the highly ranked guy that was sliding down the draft board instead of the player they had their eye on at that spot.
which was?

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02-01-2013, 04:01 PM
  #158
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Originally Posted by NikC View Post
which was?
Chris Stewart, and then, rumor has it, Giroux. Obviously Stewart went off the board just before they made their pick so Giroux would have been "their guy" at that spot. I also remember hearing they liked Berglund as well.

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02-01-2013, 04:18 PM
  #159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NikC View Post
Absolutely horrendous! The last 10 have been modestly better at best.

Still can't understand the Mcilrath pick over Tarasenko, when Cherepanov passes...

People say forget Jessiman... ok, but how do you forget Sanguenetti over Giroux
A few things happened before the 2010 draft - Sather was burned by Zherdev and Semenov who both opted for the KHL the previous season. These events were huge in what happened at the 2010 draft, a time when it seemed all the doom and gloom of the KHL stealing players was at its highest.

Jessiman still remains the quintessential 'don't take a shot in the dark unless you've already got the cupboard stocked'.

Bobby Sangs was too good to be true, never felt good about that pick. Too many Ranger fans happy at one time - should've seen the writing on the wall.

But at the time NO ONE was talking Giroux on this board. Patrick Berglund, Mike Grabner and Chris Summers got alot of hype. Giroux was just not what GM's were thinking back then. Too small, just like Niklas Kronwall

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02-01-2013, 04:40 PM
  #160
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
Chris Stewart, and then, rumor has it, Giroux. Obviously Stewart went off the board just before they made their pick so Giroux would have been "their guy" at that spot. I also remember hearing they liked Berglund as well.
Are you sure about that? I could have swore I read in a few places that the Rangers were prepared to take Berglund, until Sanguinetti fell in their lap.


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02-01-2013, 04:42 PM
  #161
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Originally Posted by NYR Boyler87 View Post
Sanguinetti wasn't that bad of a pick at the time. Looking back, sure, but that's not fair. Giroux was a VERY undersized skilled forward. They bust all the time too.
Sanguinetti was ranked around 11 in most draft prognostications I can remember.

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02-01-2013, 04:48 PM
  #162
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Originally Posted by jas View Post
Are you about that? I could have swore I read in a few places that the Rangers were prepared to take Berglund, until Sanguinetti fell in their lap.
I'm not 100%, to be honest. I remember both names coming up but I didn't go digging.

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02-02-2013, 12:36 PM
  #163
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Taking risks is part of drafting. The issue is to value risk/reward based on the selection used to take the risk. It's one thing to take a risk in the 2nd or 3rd round. It's another thing to take a risk with a lottery pick. As much as I disliked McIlrath as a prospect before he was drafted, I would have had minimal objections to him being picked if he was selected later in the draft.

It's the fact that he was selected with the 10th pick in the draft by a team that doesn't figure to get another selection that high any time in the near future that made me cringe. It's the fact that the team so desperately needed offensive talent in the organization (just as much as they needed defensive help at the time), and that high-end offensive talent will always be more valuable than any other type of asset.

Big, tall defensemen very rarely become the dominant shut-down defensemen that their admirers envision them becoming. As I posted in the past:

Quote:
2006: Erik Johnson, Ty Wishart
2005: Marc Staal, Sasha Pokulok, Matt Pelech, Joe Finley, Vladimir Mihalik
2004: Boris Valabik, Jeff Schultz, Andy Rogers
2003: Braydon Coburn, Brent Burns
2002: Jay Bouwmeester, Ryan Whitney, Anton Babchuk
2001: Mike Komisarek, Shaone Morrisonn
2000: n/a
1999: Branislav Mezei, Kristian Kudroc
1998: Bryan Allen, Mathieu Biron, Christian Backman, Jiri Fischer
1997: Paul Mara, Nikos Tselios
1996: Jon Aitken, Dan Focht, Mario Larocque, Matt Descoteaux
1995: Kyle McLaren, Jeff Ware, Max Kuznetsov
1994: Wade Belak, Jeff Kealty Yan Golubovsky
These are the defensemen 6'4" or taller that were drafted in the first round from 1994-2006. 35 players, 6-7 have gone on to become notable players in this league. 2 or 3 are top-notch defensive defenseman. In that same 1994-2006 span, only 4 other defenseman 6'4" or taller who were drafted in any other round have gone on to become notable: Souray, Chara, Byfuglien, and Kubina.

I don't mind taking risks on players with desired physical attributes. Sometimes, that is a risk worth taking. But taking such risks with important, high draft picks is one of the biggest blunders that NHL GMs make in the Entry Draft.

Other than the "Russian factor," what risk did Tarasenko exhibit? Even before being drafted, he was an excellent all-around offensive player with a heck of a shot, with the ability to create for himself and others, and with good positional instincts. He wasn't a Selke candidate, but he never shirked defensive responsibilities. He wasn't a primma donna. The only flaw in his game at the time was that he lacked blazing speed, although he always displayed excellent balance and was not the sort of offensive player that you could take the puck away from consistently with ease as a defender.

He's exactly what this team needed, and posed practically no risk for THIS team. The need for a goalscorer this season could have been filled from within, but instead, we had to saddle ourselves with Rick Nash's horrible contract for the next 6 years to fill that need.

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