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Old
02-01-2013, 04:42 PM
  #126
TMLFAN4LIFE
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
That's an opinion, not the truth. The truth is that Dion is very much a #1.
That's just your opinion. Personally I question anyones ability of assessing talent if they believe that Dion Phaneuf is very much a #1 dman. Every single shot Dion has taken so far this year has been absolutely putrid. The +/- stat very well may be a bad statistic to use in assessing a player's value, but so too should the time on ice statistic. Dion could play 10 minutes a game and would still have more shots missing the net than any other Leaf for the duration of the entire game.


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02-01-2013, 04:58 PM
  #127
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Why some of you argue over arbitrary labels is beyond me.

Who cares if Dion is a #1 or not? For better or worse, he's our best D man and that's the end of it.

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02-01-2013, 05:03 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by TMLFAN4LIFE View Post
That's just your opinion. Personally I question anyones ability of assessing talent if they believe that Dion Phaneuf is very much a #1 dman. Every single shot Dion has taken so far this year has been absolutely putrid. The +/- stat very well may be a bad statistic to use in assessing a player's value, but so too should the time on ice statistic. Dion could play 10 minutes a game and would still have more shots missing the net than any other Leaf for the duration of the entire game.

If Phaneuf isn't a first paring defencemen can you please tell me the last time the leafs had a first paring defencemen other then Salming or for a few weeks Leech? Because if he is not because of his deficiencies then either were Kaberle or McCabe. So I guess we haven't had one since the 70's. There is a difference between a stud superstar defencemen and a first pairing. VERY few teams in the NHL would have what YOU consider to be a top paring.


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02-01-2013, 05:13 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Ash35 View Post
If Phaneuf isn't a first paring defencemen can you please tell me the last time the leafs had a first paring defencemen other then Salming or for a few weeks Leach? Because if he is not because of his weaknesses then either were Kaberle or McCabe. So I guess we haven't had one since the 70's. There is a difference between a stud superstar defencemen and a first pairing.
You answered your own question with that second last sentence, no matter how sad it sounds. Hopefully Rielly changes that trend, but I seriously can't name you a true #1 dman to play for this team since Salming and I wont dispute that Kaberle and McCabe weren't #1 dmen, because they weren't... And Leech was not a #1 dman when he came here, not even close.

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02-01-2013, 05:13 PM
  #130
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ever since that sophmore campaign in Calgary the guy has been overrated. He's a top 4 defencemen who throws some big hits.

hopefully he gets back his calgary mojo but i just don't see it happening.

that said still a quality d man.

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02-01-2013, 05:26 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by TMLFAN4LIFE View Post
You answered your own question with that second last sentence, no matter how sad it sounds. Hopefully Rielly changes that trend, but I seriously can't name you a true #1 dman to play for this team since Salming and I wont dispute that Kaberle and McCabe weren't #1 dmen, because they weren't... And Leech was not a #1 dman when he came here, not even close.
The Problem is we in Toronto have a massive "The Grass is always greener" complex. Everyone is a superstar until they play for the leafs. In reality you never really know how good a player is until he player for your favorite team. Where you get to watch them day in and day out. I guarantee if one of the few defencemen in the NHL who you think are top liners (i.e Weber, Chara, Suter, Keith, Pronger ect) played for the leafs their shine would rub off real quick, especially if they didn't have adequate support. Weber has 0 points this year in 7 games. If he played in Toronto the media and fans would be all over him for not producing on the PP.

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02-01-2013, 05:41 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Ash35 View Post
The Problem is we in Toronto have a massive "The Grass is always greener" complex. Everyone is a superstar until they play for the leafs. In reality you never really know how good a player is until he player for your favorite team. Where you get to watch them day in and day out. I guarantee if one of the few defencemen in the NHL who you think are top liners (i.e Weber, Chara, Suter, Keith, Pronger ect) played for the leafs their shine would rub off real quick, especially if they didn't have adequate support. Weber has 0 points this year in 7 games. If he played in Toronto the media and fans would be all over him for not producing on the PP.
I'd argue that its the complete opposite complex - everyone in the league sucks except for players on Toronto to the majority of posters on these boards. Look no further than our fans contributions to the trades/proposals section LOL

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02-01-2013, 05:57 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dino Dicerelli View Post
ever since that sophmore campaign in Calgary the guy has been overrated. He's a top 4 defencemen who throws some big hits.

hopefully he gets back his calgary mojo but i just don't see it happening.

that said still a quality d man.
I don't see it happening either, unless he gets partnered up with the right guy, put a karlsson, weber, or chara beside him.

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02-01-2013, 06:35 PM
  #134
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When Dionne was negotiating his 'deal' in the first place I told everyone the Flames should let him go RFA and take the picks from the offer sheets. He was WAY over rated.

Hes a 4.5 mil dollar defense man. Service able 2nd pairing guy or even 1st pairing in a pinch.

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02-01-2013, 06:40 PM
  #135
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I don't mind Phaneuf as a player. But I think he is overpaid at $6.5M and as a Captain and therefore team spokesman, gives the lousiest interviews. When is is "on", he can be quite impressive, but he's inconsistent and you don't know what you will get game to game. Ideally, I see him as a 3/4 defenseman, not the Captain and only resigned at a lower cap hit.

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02-01-2013, 06:47 PM
  #136
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30 teams x 2 top pairing defense = 60 players,would Dion not crack the top 60.

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02-01-2013, 07:33 PM
  #137
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Clark, Gilmour, Sundin ... Phaneuf


There's a huge drop off there, he's a serviceable top 4 defenseman in the mold of McCabe.

Like McCabe who was booed for his contract more then his play, I think Phaneuf is going through the same cycle here with the fans.

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02-01-2013, 07:34 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wendelstache View Post
Clark, Gilmour, Sundin ... Phaneuf


There's a huge drop off there, he's a serviceable top 4 defenseman in the mold of McCabe.

Like McCabe who was booed for his contract more then his play, I think Phaneuf is going through the same cycle here with the fans.
Phaneuf needs to start hitting the net.

People are sick and tired of his field goal attempts on net.

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Old
02-02-2013, 12:20 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by Ash35 View Post
The Problem is we in Toronto have a massive "The Grass is always greener" complex. Everyone is a superstar until they play for the leafs. In reality you never really know how good a player is until he player for your favorite team. Where you get to watch them day in and day out. I guarantee if one of the few defencemen in the NHL who you think are top liners (i.e Weber, Chara, Suter, Keith, Pronger ect) played for the leafs their shine would rub off real quick, especially if they didn't have adequate support. Weber has 0 points this year in 7 games. If he played in Toronto the media and fans would be all over him for not producing on the PP.
I don't believe this is true. If anything, for a perennial basement/s**t team like ours, we think way highly of our players.

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02-02-2013, 01:24 PM
  #140
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Groan, not this again.

Last season, Dion was:
  • 12th in d-man scoring
  • 9th in d-man goals
  • 10th in d-man icetime
  • 7th in d-man PMs
  • 4th in d-man PPGs


Shea Weber scores 49P and he is a god worth $7.85M/yr. Dion Phaneuf socres 44P, and he is a goat at $6.5M/yr.

Let's look at comparables:
  • Erik Karlsson - $6.5M. Same cap hit, except Karlsson's deal is RFA. He'll be asking for more than Weber as a UFA.
  • Dan Boyle - $6.6M. No thanks, would rather have Phaneuf.
  • Kimo Timonen - $6.3M. No thanks, would rather have Phaneuf.
  • Brian Campbell - $7.142M. No thanks, would rather have Phaneuf.

Dion Phaneuf is a top-10 defenceman in the NHL, and doesn't appear to be over- or under-paid.

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02-05-2013, 01:21 AM
  #141
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Can I know if anyone thinks this guy deserves 6.5 million? Or why?

1 point through 9 games, and he looks lost out there. At least this clears the misconception some people had that Gunnarsson was better because Dion was his partner, no it was other way around. An injured Gunnar plays better than healthy Phaneuf.

I still haven't see one single slapshot from him that was on net, and it reached the goalie. Can't think of a worse Leafs captain in past few decades.

Locker room speeches don't matter as much as on-ice performance. This team isn't going anywhere with "leadership" like this. Just because coach thinks he is worth playing against opponent's top lines doesn't make him the best, when he keeps on failing on his assignments.


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02-05-2013, 01:23 AM
  #142
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Originally Posted by Penalty Kill Icing View Post
Can I know if anyone thinks this guy deserves 6.5 million? Or why?

1 point through 9 games, and he looks lost out there. At least this clears the misconception some people had that Gunnarsson was better because Dion was his partner, no it was other way around. An injured Gunnar plays better than healthy Phaneuf.

I still haven't see one single slapshot from him that was on net, and it reached the goalie. Can't think of a worse Leafs captain in past few decades.

Locker room speeches don't matter as much as on-ice performance. This team isn't going anywhere with "leadership" like this. Just because coach thinks he is worth playing against opponent's top lines doesn't make him the best, when he keeps on failing on his assignments.

Gunnarsson is better than Phaneuf . So is Gardiner.

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02-05-2013, 01:31 AM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProspector View Post
Groan, not this again.

Last season, Dion was:
  • 12th in d-man scoring
  • 9th in d-man goals
  • 10th in d-man icetime
  • 7th in d-man PMs
  • 4th in d-man PPGs


Shea Weber scores 49P and he is a god worth $7.85M/yr. Dion Phaneuf socres 44P, and he is a goat at $6.5M/yr.

Let's look at comparables:
  • Erik Karlsson - $6.5M. Same cap hit, except Karlsson's deal is RFA. He'll be asking for more than Weber as a UFA.
  • Dan Boyle - $6.6M. No thanks, would rather have Phaneuf.
  • Kimo Timonen - $6.3M. No thanks, would rather have Phaneuf.
  • Brian Campbell - $7.142M. No thanks, would rather have Phaneuf.

Dion Phaneuf is a top-10 defenceman in the NHL, and doesn't appear to be over- or under-paid.
Your post completely disregards how atrocious he is defensively. He may get 40someodd points, but his defense is really bad, and he's a freaking defenseman.

And if you'd rather have Phaneuf over Dan Boyle you're out of your mind.

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02-05-2013, 01:34 AM
  #144
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also, 7th in PIM is not a good thing. Putting the team on the PK is not something that raises his value, it just adds to his boneheadedness.

Also, points will come by virtue of ice time via secondary assists. The guy isn't exactly a playmaking wizard like a Gonchar.

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Old
02-05-2013, 03:09 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by Ash35 View Post
The Problem is we in Toronto have a massive "The Grass is always greener" complex. Everyone is a superstar until they play for the leafs. In reality you never really know how good a player is until he player for your favorite team. Where you get to watch them day in and day out. I guarantee if one of the few defencemen in the NHL who you think are top liners (i.e Weber, Chara, Suter, Keith, Pronger ect) played for the leafs their shine would rub off real quick, especially if they didn't have adequate support. Weber has 0 points this year in 7 games. If he played in Toronto the media and fans would be all over him for not producing on the PP.
With phaneuf it's not just the stat sheet, its a combination on many things. His defensive game is questionable, he can be very slow footed at times, he is rarely throwing big hits anymore like he used to, and I don't think he is much of a natural leader or a #1 D-man. Unfortunatly Burke decided he would be our franshise d-man, so like many other leafs he is forced to play in a role which exceeds his capabilities. IMO at best hes a number 2 or 3 dman making 5 or so Mil a year with an A on his shirt.

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02-05-2013, 03:17 AM
  #146
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Missing the Phaneuf that we saw in his Leafs debut. He needs to get back on his game

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02-05-2013, 05:37 AM
  #147
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For whatever reason, I've just never warmed up to Phaneuf being on the Leafs. His game had dropped off a lot in Calgary and, although I still think the trade was a decent one and overall a win for Burke and the Leafs, I've just never been comfortable with him defensively. Not to mention his lack of accuracy with his slap shot (good to see him wristing it a bit more the last few games).I would be ecstatic to have Phaneuf on the team if he were all of the following:

1- Making somewhere around 3.5-4.5 M per season
2- Playing on the 2nd pairing
3- Not the captain

IMO, he is all of those things. He's a 2nd pairing d-man, not a 6.5 M player and not a captain. I get that our D isn't that great and that (unfortunately) at this point he probably should be on the top pairing. But, as others have said, Kostka should probably not be on the top pairing and both are seeing way too much ice time. I know +/- is an unreliable stat, but, IMO, it reflects the way Phaneuf has played this year. Hopefully he and the rest of the D can show some improvement this year.

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02-05-2013, 06:18 AM
  #148
weems
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Originally Posted by TheProspector View Post
Groan, not this again.

Last season, Dion was:
  • 12th in d-man scoring
  • 9th in d-man goals
  • 10th in d-man icetime
  • 7th in d-man PMs
  • 4th in d-man PPGs


Shea Weber scores 49P and he is a god worth $7.85M/yr. Dion Phaneuf socres 44P, and he is a goat at $6.5M/yr.

Let's look at comparables:
  • Erik Karlsson - $6.5M. Same cap hit, except Karlsson's deal is RFA. He'll be asking for more than Weber as a UFA.
  • Dan Boyle - $6.6M. No thanks, would rather have Phaneuf.
  • Kimo Timonen - $6.3M. No thanks, would rather have Phaneuf.
  • Brian Campbell - $7.142M. No thanks, would rather have Phaneuf.

Dion Phaneuf is a top-10 defenceman in the NHL, and doesn't appear to be over- or under-paid.
None of this touchs on the other side of the game you know....................DEFENSE.

Sure Dion has the skills and production of a top 10 OFFENSIVE defencemen but that doesnt tell anywhere close to the whole story. A blueliners job first and foremost is to play good defensive hockey and Dion really doesnt show this on a consistant basis.

*He makes silly pinchs
*He is bad at playing angles
*He is awful when dealing with oncoming speed
*He can be reckless with the puck

Dion has a decent enough skillset but his hockeysense leaves much to be desired. I would have no issue with the guy if he was making 5 million and used moreso as a solid #2 but when he plays over 25 minutes a night anyone that isnt totally biased can see he has glaring holes in his game and isnt a top 10 Dmen.

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02-05-2013, 06:29 AM
  #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProspector View Post
Groan, not this again.

Last season, Dion was:
  • 12th in d-man scoring
  • 9th in d-man goals
  • 10th in d-man icetime
  • 7th in d-man PMs
  • 4th in d-man PPGs


Shea Weber scores 49P and he is a god worth $7.85M/yr. Dion Phaneuf socres 44P, and he is a goat at $6.5M/yr.

Let's look at comparables:
  • Erik Karlsson - $6.5M. Same cap hit, except Karlsson's deal is RFA. He'll be asking for more than Weber as a UFA.
  • Dan Boyle - $6.6M. No thanks, would rather have Phaneuf.
  • Kimo Timonen - $6.3M. No thanks, would rather have Phaneuf.
  • Brian Campbell - $7.142M. No thanks, would rather have Phaneuf.

Dion Phaneuf is a top-10 defenceman in the NHL, and doesn't appear to be over- or under-paid.
Top 10? WOW. I love how you completely ignore 50% of the game which, ya know, is this thing called defense. Kind of priority number one when you're a defenseman.

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02-05-2013, 06:45 AM
  #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheProspector View Post
Dion Phaneuf is a top-10 defenceman in the NHL, and doesn't appear to be over- or under-paid.

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