HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Will the "Zucc" be back? (3/25: Agrees to terms)

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-29-2013, 08:03 AM
  #176
Thesensation19
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 2,493
vCash: 500
He was a really good forward. Creative, swift and just getting use to the NHL before they said good bye. Bad coaching in not seeing his potential, he immediately made our PP better and our team better.

He recently said he will come back, but only for the Rangers. Thats probably a statement made because hes still under contract but no reason why he is not in the NHL.

Thesensation19 is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 09:24 AM
  #177
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,828
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
If Zuccarello had anything to add to this team, he wouldve been here playing.
This is half of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
II think its time we start hoping the players on the Rangers roster right now start playing better instead of hoping players like Zuccarello and Mashinter make an impact.
This is the other half.

__________________
SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 09:33 AM
  #178
Placid
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: Norway
Posts: 2,295
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBKers View Post
Having a summer house close to the Norwegian border (lot´s of animosity there as they came four our women ) has taught me to call Norwegians many vile things - but Finnish is not one of them
lol, good one

Placid is offline  
Old
01-29-2013, 03:50 PM
  #179
bernmeister
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 8,242
vCash: 500
Thread ?:
Answer: hopefully not, but wish him the best.

bernmeister is offline  
Old
01-30-2013, 12:16 AM
  #180
Glennsoe
Horndog
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Country: Norway
Posts: 4,004
vCash: 500
The one thing that surpriced me from his last call up and to his injury was his position and attitude in front of the opponents goal..

He was not the push over most thought he'd be, and several of his goals in that time frame was from standing in front of the goal collecting rebounds..

On the D he's as good as or even better than Hagelin, talk about a liability on the D..That kid's gonna cost us goals and points cause of his lack of skills playing D..

Glennsoe is offline  
Old
01-30-2013, 01:26 AM
  #181
TigerJack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Country:
Posts: 814
vCash: 500
With Callahan out, probably for quite some time, Zuke would be the man to have on the roster now........

TigerJack is offline  
Old
01-30-2013, 12:58 PM
  #182
NYR2047
Moderator
WebMD Trained Doctor
 
NYR2047's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New York, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,687
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerJack View Post
With Callahan out, probably for quite some time, Zuke would be the man to have on the roster now........
For depth I agree but they play two different styles I don't think he would have the same sort of impact that Callahan in the lineup would

Plus torts never seemed to trust him so I don't think he would get extended playing time cause of Callahan being out

NYR2047 is offline  
Old
01-30-2013, 01:04 PM
  #183
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,828
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyRangers2047 View Post
Plus torts never seemed to trust him
This is a point that too many people want to gloss over.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline  
Old
01-30-2013, 01:11 PM
  #184
BlueshirtBlitz
Rich Nash
 
BlueshirtBlitz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: New York
Posts: 18,749
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
This is a point that too many people want to gloss over.
Which is a problem, since MZA never did anything to prove he didn't deserve to be "trusted."

I'm not really advocating him to be back, but I am griping that I feel he was mishandled.

BlueshirtBlitz is offline  
Old
01-30-2013, 01:13 PM
  #185
NYR2047
Moderator
WebMD Trained Doctor
 
NYR2047's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: New York, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,687
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Which is a problem, since MZA never did anything to prove he didn't deserve to be "trusted."

I'm not really advocating him to be back, but I am griping that I feel he was mishandled.
He was starting to gain trust then broke his arm blocking a shot so I agree with the mishandled at times

NYR2047 is offline  
Old
01-31-2013, 10:23 AM
  #186
Glennsoe
Horndog
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Country: Norway
Posts: 4,004
vCash: 500
Article fra a Norwegian sportsite;



Short Summary, He doesn't seem himself going back to NYR, "it's going to take a lot". He hasn't played his best so far due to injury.

http://www.vg.no/sport/ishockey/arti...artid=10113454

Google Translated;

Quote:
ST. PETERSBURG (AP) Mats Zuccarello (25) does not expect a return to the New York Rangers this summer.

- It takes a lot to happen, he says - disappointed after getting beaten up by Patrick Thoresen SKA St. Petersburg on Wednesday night.

He is obviously not happy with what has happened so far in his new hockeyliv - in Russian Metallurg Magnitogorsk.

- I've been injured again. It's a little frustrating.

- I have not played my best this season. It has been a little rod out ...

Tough time

0-3 for SKA St. Petersburg slips easily into the series of bad Metallurg Magnitogorsk matches in recent weeks. It is disappointing for a team that is committed to fighting for "bucket" in the Gagarin Cup.
They are ready for the playoffs, but for example 17 points less than SKA-after a game more played.

- Damage - it must just live with and make the best out of. It's like that happens, but it had been all right to get a fit season now, Zuccarello said with hope in his voice

He will not say anything about what's going to happen this summer, but mutters that it is considered infringement. Interventions that will make him less injury prone.

On twitter it has in recent days been some suggestions that Rangers would exercise its option and retrieve Zuccarello, but even he is therefore not so optimistic about it.

- Now I concentrate fully on what is happening here in Metallurg. We have plenty of things that we need to fix.

VM-aware

Perhaps the match yesterday have ended differently, if not Zuccarello had incurred a penalty. It was the position 1-0 to SKA that metallurgists Milan Gulash got the puck into the goal - but the referee disallowed because he believed Zuccarello had been guilty of interference.

- He saw something I did not. I did not realize it, said Zuccarello, who had to take two minutes in the penalty box.

- Are you looking forward to the World Cup?

- It will be fun to play championship with Patrick and the others. I also look forward to meeting and international matches this week, says Mats Zuccarello.

Then Patrick Thoresen back and the two have time for a little chat before Zuccarello have to go with the rest of Metallurg gang from Ice Palace in St. Petersburg.

- We just have to forget this match, he said.

- Now it can be tougher opposition in the Gagarin Cup?

- Yes, but if you win, you must beat all anyway. Right?

Glennsoe is offline  
Old
01-31-2013, 10:25 AM
  #187
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,811
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
Which is a problem, since MZA never did anything to prove he didn't deserve to be "trusted."

I'm not really advocating him to be back, but I am griping that I feel he was mishandled.
Yea, he didnt sleep with Torts' wife or anything.

He was, however, not an NHL caliber player away from the puck - so, one would think that had something to do with it.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
01-31-2013, 03:02 PM
  #188
shinchanyo
Registered User
 
shinchanyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Here
Posts: 2,370
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Small, slow, weak, and untrustworthy on the defensive side of the puck. If Zuccarello had anything to add to this team, he wouldve been here playing.
I'm confused didn't the rangers give him an offer wasn't it his chocie not to come back? Didn't he make the team at the end of last year and play well before being injured? I've seen several posts like this but this seems to be revisionist history or ignoring the facts.

He was NOT good enough to earna spot out of camp last year and he certainly was no guarantee to make the team this year but I don't think it is accurate to say what you said there.

I'd say that the safe speculation though is that if he was still here he'd struggle at ES and perhaps even be a liability unless he perhaps found chemistry with Nash who can possess the puck. The two of them can rotate finding space for one another, use their creativity and use their hockey sense to get to the open ice. I do feel that the biggest hinderance to Mats NHL career has to do equally with his physical shortcomings as well as not having linemates with playstyles that compliment his. That being said this also does indicate his limits as a player based on what we saw the last two years. I do personally believe he was improving enough to where he would be helping this team this year.

shinchanyo is offline  
Old
01-31-2013, 03:10 PM
  #189
SixGoalieSystem
Eat all the bacon!
 
SixGoalieSystem's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Trondheim
Posts: 2,499
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinchanyo View Post
I'm confused didn't the rangers give him an offer wasn't it his chocie not to come back? Didn't he make the team at the end of last year and play well before being injured? I've seen several posts like this but this seems to be revisionist history or ignoring the facts.

He was NOT good enough to earna spot out of camp last year and he certainly was no guarantee to make the team this year but I don't think it is accurate to say what you said there.

I'd say that the safe speculation though is that if he was still here he'd struggle at ES and perhaps even be a liability unless he found chemistry with Nash who can possess the puck and the two of them can rotate finding space for one anothe and using their creativity and hockey sense to get to the open ice. I do feel that the biggest hinderance to Mats NHL career has to do equally with nothing having linemates with playstyles that compliment his. That being said this also does indicate his limits as a player based on what we saw the last two years. I do personally believe he was improving enough to where he would be helping this team this year.
They knew it would take a one way contract for him to stay. He and his agent were both pretty clear on that.

They qualified him, always good to keep the rights to a player, but it's not like they saw him as anything else than a decent spare if he were to change his mind and sign the QO.

SixGoalieSystem is offline  
Old
01-31-2013, 03:19 PM
  #190
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,811
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by shinchanyo View Post
I'm confused didn't the rangers give him an offer wasn't it his chocie not to come back? Didn't he make the team at the end of last year and play well before being injured? I've seen several posts like this but this seems to be revisionist history or ignoring the facts.

He was NOT good enough to earna spot out of camp last year and he certainly was no guarantee to make the team this year but I don't think it is accurate to say what you said there.

I'd say that the safe speculation though is that if he was still here he'd struggle at ES and perhaps even be a liability unless he perhaps found chemistry with Nash who can possess the puck. The two of them can rotate finding space for one another, use their creativity and use their hockey sense to get to the open ice. I do feel that the biggest hinderance to Mats NHL career has to do equally with his physical shortcomings as well as not having linemates with playstyles that compliment his. That being said this also does indicate his limits as a player based on what we saw the last two years. I do personally believe he was improving enough to where he would be helping this team this year.
The Rangers weren't going to give him a one-way deal, because hes not good enough to warrant one. Pretty cut and dry.

As for being able to play well with Nash - sure, I guess. He, like many borderline NHL talents would probably put up some numbers playing with one of the most dynamic players in the game. Not exactly sure how thats a ringing endorsement for MZA.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
01-31-2013, 03:33 PM
  #191
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 12,443
vCash: 500
The thread that won't go away. MZA would be better suited playing for a lesser NHL team if he were to try North America again. He's not good enough to play for the Rangers on a scoring line and he's not strong enough or good enough defensively to be a good bottom 6 player. I don't really see him improving our pwp either. it kind of sucked with him and it kind of sucked without him. He'd make a nice play now and again that would lead to a goal but the same could be said for most of our other skill forwards.

He's a good (not great) skater with average speed. He has a size and strength problem that is not going to go away. He's a creative puck handler and very good passer. He sucks defensively and along the walls. He's not a guy who is going to win many puck battles. Not suited at all for a bottom 6 player--he can't grind, fight, forecheck effectively or penalty kill. The extra goals we may benefit from his skill package are going to be more than offset by his leaky defensive play highlighted by his lack of physical strength. It was an interesting experiment that didn't play out.

eco's bones is online now  
Old
01-31-2013, 03:39 PM
  #192
SwedishBullet62
Never go full torts.
 
SwedishBullet62's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Long Island, NY
Country: United States
Posts: 4,735
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TigerJack View Post
With Callahan out, probably for quite some time, Zuke would be the man to have on the roster now........
if your inferring that he would jump right in a fill Callahans role, or play anything close to it, i couldnt disagree more, he wasnt terrible defensively like most people like to say but he couldnt be trusted in any degree, nor does he bring the "jam" that cali brings game in and game out. their two completely different players.

i agree he was a bit mishandled here, but to me hes like the fish that got away, could have been huge or could have been tiny well never know, and given what he wants out of an NHL career and the contract he wanted hes clearly not worth it and management isnt going to waste the contract or money giving him a one way. i think the rangers were smart in giving him a QO, if he plays good in europe an expresses interest in coming back to the nhl some team will offer a late round pick for him, and thats better then nothing.

SwedishBullet62 is offline  
Old
02-01-2013, 06:37 AM
  #193
TigerJack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Country:
Posts: 814
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rangerdanger20 View Post
if your inferring that he would jump right in a fill Callahans role, or play anything close to it, i couldnt disagree more, he wasnt terrible defensively like most people like to say but he couldnt be trusted in any degree, nor does he bring the "jam" that cali brings game in and game out. their two completely different players.

i agree he was a bit mishandled here, but to me hes like the fish that got away, could have been huge or could have been tiny well never know, and given what he wants out of an NHL career and the contract he wanted hes clearly not worth it and management isnt going to waste the contract or money giving him a one way. i think the rangers were smart in giving him a QO, if he plays good in europe an expresses interest in coming back to the nhl some team will offer a late round pick for him, and thats better then nothing.
Of course not. Who can replace Callahan? But With Cally out, moves have to be made, and Zuke could, if available, definetly be one of the guys to be a part of such a "move".

TigerJack is offline  
Old
02-01-2013, 07:00 AM
  #194
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 17,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Glennsoe View Post
There's several players with similar body shape and size like zuke currently in nhl..

When he's available after the khl season, our PP play and overal play on the ice should've improved enough for us not to sign him again..

It would take a great one way deal for him to sign again...

I think he'd rather play in the world cup though...
Zucc would undoubtedly put a bunch of players in this league outside a bunch of rosters.

Ola is offline  
Old
02-01-2013, 07:27 AM
  #195
Ola
Registered User
 
Ola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Sweden
Country: Sweden
Posts: 17,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
This is a point that too many people want to gloss over.
Or?

He made our opening night lineup last season over Avery and Christensen unless I am misstaken.

Facts:
-Torts played him his rookie season.

-He was on pace to score almost 50 pts from a third line.

-Last season, he made the team out of camp in tough competition.

-The entire team struggled tremendously and Zucc took the fall for that (for sure).

-Then he got hurt in the AHL.

-The team started to be able to play 60 minutes, and when we needed to bring someone up Zucc -- who definitely according to any report was the first in line for a call-up and the best player in HFD -- was hurt and Hagelin and Mitchell got a shot. And they took it.

-After much agony, Zucc got another shot still and was instantly played on the PP and in a decent role.

-Then he broke his arm blocking a shot and didn't come back.

Alot of tough luck there for sure. But did Torts hate him? All we know is that Torts didn't bump Gabby or Cally and kept Prust on the 3rd line.

I do have a little problem with the talk around Zucc. I think it orgins to a large extent from people believing that they best guys are in the NHL, how good they are shows from their stats and how everyone is able to perform on their own in the game of hockey.

For every year I watch this game, watch kids for years in europe before they go over to the NHL (where they stay or don't stay), come back, watch kids in World Juniors or junior hockey in Canada or the AHL, I am more and more and more struck by how big of a impact "circumstances" outside a kid's control affects the career of the said kid and how extremely important the environement is both in terms of development but also of course in terms of stats and prodcution.

I know that many don't see eye to eye with me on Zucc, but I thought he played a very high level and made many amazing things in the NHL when he got a chance. He was never rattled by the pressure on him, and every time he got a shot played managed to play his game with very small marginals without misshandling pucks or doing what most nervous players do. He opened up a ton of ice with the way he handled the puck around the boards and threaded passes.

But he was put in a horrible environment for him. He had Gabby, Cally and Prust ahead of him on the depth chart, and always had to take a back seat to those two. He was forced to play with a unexperienced, small and avg skating center in Derek Stepan and a non-factor defensive player in Wojtek Wolski. We put a midget norwegian offensive wiz in a Nik Sundström with Gretz and AK role. But he still did alright. Stayed in the league. Often was a huge contributor in lifting his line which on many nights resulted in Torts playing the WW-Step-Zucc line as a 1/2 line.

I just don't get the talk of Zucc being worthless at all to be perfectly honest. I do not know what Zucc could have done if he had played with 6'2 vet center who was decent both ways. The avg 1st/2nd line center in this league. What he could have done with a Elias/Zajac, Staal/Staal, Richard/Carter, Thonton/Pavelski, Dats/Zetterberg, Malkin/Sid, Toews/Sharp, Bergeron/Krejci, just to name a few, or a center in that mold. I do not know, but I certainly wonder how anyone else can know either.

But I have seen him been a monster in the SEL breaking the scoring record for a forign player, I've seen him do it game in and game out, season after season.

Nobody is saying that he is a star. He is undoubtedly one-dimensional. But its hard to see why he couldn't be a very good player in this league.

Ola is offline  
Old
02-01-2013, 11:41 AM
  #196
NickyFotiu
Registered User
 
NickyFotiu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,562
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NyRangers2047 View Post
For depth I agree but they play two different styles I don't think he would have the same sort of impact that Callahan in the lineup would

Plus torts never seemed to trust him so I don't think he would get extended playing time cause of Callahan being out
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post
This is a point that too many people want to gloss over.
Torts not trusting the kid is all on Torts. When Torts did show him trust like in Sudden death OT the kid showed not only could he be trusted but he won the game.

The kid should be in the NHL. There is no reason for this team to have so few skill forwards playing on the bottom 2 lines.

NickyFotiu is offline  
Old
02-01-2013, 03:49 PM
  #197
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
 
SingnBluesOnBroadway's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: NYC
Country: United States
Posts: 29,828
vCash: 500
Awards:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
I just don't get the talk of Zucc being worthless at all to be perfectly honest.
I don't think anyone has said that he's worthless. One dimensional and potentially lacking in size and strength, yes. But never worthless.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
Torts not trusting the kid is all on Torts.
No, it's not on Torts. He obviously has demands of his players and those are to play in all three zones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NickyFotiu View Post
The kid should be in the NHL. There is no reason for this team to have so few skill forwards playing on the bottom 2 lines.
There's the rub. The bottom six on this team are checking lines and he doesn't play good enough defense to work on bottom six.

SingnBluesOnBroadway is offline  
Old
02-01-2013, 03:55 PM
  #198
Kershaw
 
Kershaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Country:
Posts: 25,519
vCash: 50
Really unfortunate that he isn't playing for the Rangers. We can use all the help we can get, especially on the PP. Too bad his contract doesn't have an out-clause.

Kershaw is offline  
Old
02-01-2013, 03:59 PM
  #199
Bleed Ranger Blue
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,811
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SingnBluesOnBroadway View Post

There's the rub. The bottom six on this team are checking lines and he doesn't play good enough defense to work on bottom six.
I really wish more people would understand this about the bottom 6 of the NY Rangers. 4 balanced scoring lines is virtually a myth in the NHL.

And the attitude thats its attainable is why you see so much mindless hate towards guys like Boyle.

Bleed Ranger Blue is offline  
Old
02-01-2013, 04:03 PM
  #200
shinchanyo
Registered User
 
shinchanyo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Here
Posts: 2,370
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ola View Post
Or?

He made our opening night lineup last season over Avery and Christensen unless I am misstaken.

Facts:
-Torts played him his rookie season.

-He was on pace to score almost 50 pts from a third line.

-Last season, he made the team out of camp in tough competition.

-The entire team struggled tremendously and Zucc took the fall for that (for sure).

-Then he got hurt in the AHL.

-The team started to be able to play 60 minutes, and when we needed to bring someone up Zucc -- who definitely according to any report was the first in line for a call-up and the best player in HFD -- was hurt and Hagelin and Mitchell got a shot. And they took it.

-After much agony, Zucc got another shot still and was instantly played on the PP and in a decent role.

-Then he broke his arm blocking a shot and didn't come back.

Alot of tough luck there for sure. But did Torts hate him? All we know is that Torts didn't bump Gabby or Cally and kept Prust on the 3rd line.

I do have a little problem with the talk around Zucc. I think it orgins to a large extent from people believing that they best guys are in the NHL, how good they are shows from their stats and how everyone is able to perform on their own in the game of hockey.

For every year I watch this game, watch kids for years in europe before they go over to the NHL (where they stay or don't stay), come back, watch kids in World Juniors or junior hockey in Canada or the AHL, I am more and more and more struck by how big of a impact "circumstances" outside a kid's control affects the career of the said kid and how extremely important the environement is both in terms of development but also of course in terms of stats and prodcution.

I know that many don't see eye to eye with me on Zucc, but I thought he played a very high level and made many amazing things in the NHL when he got a chance. He was never rattled by the pressure on him, and every time he got a shot played managed to play his game with very small marginals without misshandling pucks or doing what most nervous players do. He opened up a ton of ice with the way he handled the puck around the boards and threaded passes.

But he was put in a horrible environment for him. He had Gabby, Cally and Prust ahead of him on the depth chart, and always had to take a back seat to those two. He was forced to play with a unexperienced, small and avg skating center in Derek Stepan and a non-factor defensive player in Wojtek Wolski. We put a midget norwegian offensive wiz in a Nik Sundström with Gretz and AK role. But he still did alright. Stayed in the league. Often was a huge contributor in lifting his line which on many nights resulted in Torts playing the WW-Step-Zucc line as a 1/2 line.

I just don't get the talk of Zucc being worthless at all to be perfectly honest. I do not know what Zucc could have done if he had played with 6'2 vet center who was decent both ways. The avg 1st/2nd line center in this league. What he could have done with a Elias/Zajac, Staal/Staal, Richard/Carter, Thonton/Pavelski, Dats/Zetterberg, Malkin/Sid, Toews/Sharp, Bergeron/Krejci, just to name a few, or a center in that mold. I do not know, but I certainly wonder how anyone else can know either.

But I have seen him been a monster in the SEL breaking the scoring record for a forign player, I've seen him do it game in and game out, season after season.

Nobody is saying that he is a star. He is undoubtedly one-dimensional. But its hard to see why he couldn't be a very good player in this league.
Agreed it seems to me like there's almost an elitist attitude against him or at the very least a lot of people dealing in revisionist history and absolutes.

shinchanyo is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:06 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.