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Mark Scheifele sent back to Barrie Colts (OHL)

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Old
02-01-2013, 02:49 PM
  #476
surixon
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Noel is starting to look more and more like Hichcock pre St. Louis blues. This is not a good thing when you consider the organizational philosophy of draft and develope from within. Ken was notorious for playing his veterans and having very little rope for his young players. Noel is starting to trend the same way in my eyes so I'm starting to question if he is the right coach for us moving forward.

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02-01-2013, 02:58 PM
  #477
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Just posted this in the GDT too.


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02-01-2013, 03:04 PM
  #478
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Quote:
Originally Posted by surixon View Post
Noel is starting to look more and more like Hichcock pre St. Louis blues. This is not a good thing when you consider the organizational philosophy of draft and develope from within. Ken was notorious for playing his veterans and having very little rope for his young players. Noel is starting to trend the same way in my eyes so I'm starting to question if he is the right coach for us moving forward.
Considering the contractual issues, I'm pretty sure Chevy would have just as much if not more say in how Scheifleigh is used.

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02-01-2013, 03:04 PM
  #479
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Ok, you have the kid for 5 games, who is pegged as a future top 6. So what do you do?

Put him on a power play, that completely lacks creativity, down low? (only point shots)
Play him for more than 5 minutes at a time?
Put him with guys with actual scoring potential?
Play him 4-5 games in a row, to see if he get into a groove?

Or.....do absolutely none of the above?

Such a wasted opportunity, all around.......

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02-01-2013, 03:35 PM
  #480
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Originally Posted by Do or Die View Post
Ok, you have the kid for 5 games, who is pegged as a future top 6. So what do you do?

Put him on a power play, that completely lacks creativity, down low? (only point shots)
Play him for more than 5 minutes at a time?
Put him with guys with actual scoring potential?
Play him 4-5 games in a row, to see if he get into a groove?

Or.....do absolutely none of the above?

Such a wasted opportunity, all around.......
Totally agree

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02-01-2013, 04:07 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
Noel is starting to look more and more like Hichcock pre St. Louis blues. This is not a good thing when you consider the organizational philosophy of draft and develope from within. Ken was notorious for playing his veterans and having very little rope for his young players.
I'd be interested in what Noel's opinions are on Hitchcock's management style.

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02-01-2013, 04:32 PM
  #482
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I'd be interested in what Noel's opinions are on Hitchcock's management style.
He's a huge fan, broke into the NHL as an assistant under him in Columbus. There are a couple of interviews around of him talking about the connection.

To be fair to Hitchcock, he realized that his philosophy regarding young players was wrong when he was on his deathbed in Columbus. He has since changed his view and one only needs to look at St. Louis for proof. He has young players playing in key situations all over the lineup. Will Noel have the same epiphany? I'm not sure.

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02-01-2013, 05:28 PM
  #483
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We have to be patient. Seems silly to just throw Scheifele into a highly responsible position when it's probably a bit premature. Ideally I think he should be getting between 11-13 mins a game. Also, why would we want a center at the #2 spot that is less then 40% on draws? Probably the reason he's played wing so far.

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02-01-2013, 05:35 PM
  #484
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We have to be patient. Seems silly to just throw Scheifele into a highly responsible position when it's probably a bit premature. Ideally I think he should be getting between 11-13 mins a game. Also, why would we want a center at the #2 spot that is less then 40% on draws? Probably the reason he's played wing so far.
This.

If Noel thought our face offs were atrocious at 42% or whatever vs FLA it would be even worse with Mark as our #2C.

I agree he could really help the PP. he's probably better than Kane 5 on 4 already...

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02-01-2013, 05:41 PM
  #485
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That Free Press article frightens me to no end. I had assumed that the organization at least had the brains to sit Mark down and explain their strategy with him and let him know what they expect of him. To leave him dangling, wondering WTF is the worst case scenario. You can tell by his answers that Mark has no clue what is going on.

For the first time ever, I am seriously questioning what TN, Chevy and Noel are doing.


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02-01-2013, 05:45 PM
  #486
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That Free Press article frightens me to no end. I had assumed that the organization at least had the brains to sit Mark down and explain their strategy with him and let him know what they expect of him. To leave him dangling, wondering WTF is the worst case scenario. You can tell by his answers that Mark has no clue what is going on.

For the first time ever, I am seriously questioning what TN, Chevy and Noel are doing.

I agree totally. There is nothing more discouraging than not knowing what is going on. I find it totally flabergasting that they haven't communicated their strategy with him. This is piss poor management.

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02-01-2013, 05:48 PM
  #487
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I have no problem holding Scheifele to the same standard as everyone else. He needs to earn his ice time and shouldn't be handed anyhing based on where he was drafted, but it seems like he is actually being held to a HIGHER standard than the more veteran players.

I was a Columbus fan pre-Jets 2.0 and I watched every single game that Hitch (and Noel) coached there. This is exactly the same feeling I had back in those days and that terrifies me given Columbus' track record for developing talent. If you are going to sit Scheifele down for every ****ing mistake he makes, he's doomed, especially if the other players are not held to that same standard. It HAS to affect his psyche and confidence.

Edit: To a large extent, I feel the same way about their handling of Burmi. Mistakes are something to be used as a learning tool, not as a reason to staple a young players ass to the bench.


Last edited by Stej: 02-01-2013 at 05:57 PM.
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02-01-2013, 05:53 PM
  #488
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Could the situation be spreading to the other players? Seeing one of your team mates getting jerked around by management/coaching staff must surely have at least some influence on the rest of the team.

This is afterall a place of work and I know when I see a colleague get the run around it doesn't prompt me to want to go the extra mile.

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02-01-2013, 06:00 PM
  #489
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stej View Post
That Free Press article frightens me to no end. I had assumed that the organization at least had the brains to sit Mark down and explain their strategy with him and let him know what they expect of him. To leave him dangling, wondering WTF is the worst case scenario. You can tell by his answers that Mark has no clue what is going on.

For the first time ever, I am seriously questioning what TN, Chevy and Noel are doing.

Thats what really shocked me as well, the lack of communication is freightning. This is one of the Jets two prized prospects we are talking about here. They damn well should know what they want to do with him.

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02-01-2013, 06:03 PM
  #490
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I don't know how people think a rookie is going to come in and handle tough minutes and produce. Only the most elite prospects do it successfully.

I trust what we are doing with our prospects, including Scheifele.

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02-01-2013, 06:11 PM
  #491
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I don't know how people think a rookie is going to come in and handle tough minutes and produce. Only the most elite prospects do it successfully.

I trust what we are doing with our prospects, including Scheifele.
I don't think anyone expects him to come in and be the first line center right off the bat, but I think he would be capable of playing a sheltered 2nd line role.

Having said that I have massive problems with him sitting in the stands night in and night out. It also appears that there isn't proper communicaton from the coaching staff to Mark. If he isn't ready to play or the coach doesn't trust him enought to use him then do the kid a favor and send him back to Barrie where he will get the minutes he needs.

The Columbus comparison is apt imo, this is exactly how Brule's carrer started. Played limited minutes in a couple of games to start the year then got stappled to the pressbox and when he did get back in he was timid and played like he was afraid to make a mistake. When he did make one he got stappled to the bench again. Negative reinforcement is about the worst form of teaching you can use with a young player breaking int the league and it appears that it is one we are seeing Noel use here. These are big issues imo.

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02-01-2013, 06:14 PM
  #492
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the way the jets are handling scheifele has the same feel of the way the jays screwed around travis snider in mlb .....

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02-01-2013, 06:17 PM
  #493
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
He's a huge fan, broke into the NHL as an assistant under him in Columbus. There are a couple of interviews around of him talking about the connection.

To be fair to Hitchcock, he realized that his philosophy regarding young players was wrong when he was on his deathbed in Columbus. He has since changed his view and one only needs to look at St. Louis for proof. He has young players playing in key situations all over the lineup. Will Noel have the same epiphany? I'm not sure.
Exactly. Hitchcock learned in Columbus that in the cap era you simply cannot rely completely on veterans. Look at the way he has incorporated youngs guys in Pietrangelo, Tarasenko, Shattenkirk, Oshie, etc. He has learned how to work with young guys.

Noel needs to learn the same. And he needs to do it now.

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02-01-2013, 06:20 PM
  #494
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
I don't think anyone expects him to come in and be the first line center right off the bat, but I think he would be capable of playing a sheltered 2nd line role.

Having said that I have massive problems with him sitting in the stands night in and night out. It also appears that there isn't proper communicaton from the coaching staff to Mark. If he isn't ready to play or the coach doesn't trust him enought to use him then do the kid a favor and send him back to Barrie where he will get the minutes he needs.

The Columbus comparison is apt imo, this is exactly how Brule's carrer started. Played limited minutes in a couple of games to start the year then got stappled to the pressbox and when he did get back in he was timid and played like he was afraid to make a mistake. When he did make one he got stappled to the bench again. Negative reinforcement is about the worst form of teaching you can use with a young player breaking int the league and it appears that it is one we are seeing Noel use here. These are big issues imo.
Completely agree. Very well said. Prior to the return of the Jets I watched Paul Maurice/Carolina do this EXACT same form of handling with recently waived (claimed by Pittsburgh) Zach Boychuk. Completely ruined the kids confidence, and once you ruin a kids confidence you stand the chance of kissing his career, his talents and all he is good at goodbye. That's how serious of an issue this is, in my opinion.

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02-01-2013, 06:36 PM
  #495
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Originally Posted by surixon View Post
I don't think anyone expects him to come in and be the first line center right off the bat, but I think he would be capable of playing a sheltered 2nd line role.

Having said that I have massive problems with him sitting in the stands night in and night out. It also appears that there isn't proper communicaton from the coaching staff to Mark. If he isn't ready to play or the coach doesn't trust him enought to use him then do the kid a favor and send him back to Barrie where he will get the minutes he needs.

The Columbus comparison is apt imo, this is exactly how Brule's carrer started. Played limited minutes in a couple of games to start the year then got stappled to the pressbox and when he did get back in he was timid and played like he was afraid to make a mistake. When he did make one he got stappled to the bench again. Negative reinforcement is about the worst form of teaching you can use with a young player breaking int the league and it appears that it is one we are seeing Noel use here. These are big issues imo.
For the record I didn't want Scheifele up at all in this shortened season. Wins are too important and you see that decisions to help this team win are being placed above what might be best for Scheifele (as it should be). In a proper season he would get TC and exhibition, then a couple of early season games. The stakes are too high right now.

As for the way he's being handled, we do not know what Noel and Chevy have been telling him. We do not know if he has been *benched* for poor play, or just part of a larger decision to ice the lineup Noel thinks has the best chance of winning (more likely IMO). If Noel and Chevy tell him that, I don't think you get the 'Brule effect'

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02-01-2013, 10:08 PM
  #496
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For the record, I wasn't making a statement one way or the other on where Schief should be. I was just caught off guard by the lack of communication which I see as a HUGE problem. How anyone can say they are handling Mark well by sitting him in the press box without talking to him is beyond me.

(Obviously he played lots tonight but that was a **** show right from the word go)

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02-01-2013, 10:40 PM
  #497
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Thought Scheifele played pretty well tonight. Got much more ice time tonight in a blow out which is good for his confidence.

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02-02-2013, 12:37 PM
  #498
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I missed the game last night.

He got a lot of TOI and ended up 0 in an 8-3 route...

without having actually seen the game or looking at posession numbers it would appear he had a pretty decent game (as decent as one can have in a game as bad as that)

what did everyone see, how was he'?

he's got a 66.66 percent FO percentage so i'm assuming he won 2 of three.

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02-02-2013, 12:46 PM
  #499
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I'm guessing he took 6 faceoffs, not 3. He won most quite clean, straight back to his D. These weren't against scrubs either. The ones he lost weren't clean. He's clearly worked at his faceoffs.

He was responsible for 2 icings and at least one giveaway, but I thought he had a pretty damn good game. Had a couple decent scoring chances but couldn't convert.

His defensive game is very very good. If you watch him during a back check he keeps looking around seeing who to take. Most of our forwards (Jokinen for example) just put their head down and skate back as hard as they can. He's very good at picking up the third forward on a 2 on 2 situation. He will put the brakes on and swing over to cover them as they cross the blue line.

One serious issue I saw was he skates to close to our puck carrier in the neutral zone. Sometimes it's so close that a pass isn't available because the other team player would be right on Scheifele the second he gets the puck. He also seemed to slow down the puck carrier at times. He needs to move to open ice a little further away from the puck carrier in order to receive a clean pass.

edit : I have to add the kid is a treat to watch without the puck, offensively or defensively. Usually he's very good at puck support and angling opposing puck carriers. He just needs to work on his finish, and he could be elite one day.


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02-02-2013, 12:58 PM
  #500
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I'm guessing he took 6 faceoffs, not 3. He won most quite clean, straight back to his D. These weren't against scrubs either. The ones he lost weren't clean. He's clearly worked at his faceoffs.

He was responsible for 2 icings and at least one giveaway, but I thought he had a pretty damn good game. Had a couple decent scoring chances but couldn't convert.

His defensive game is very very good. If you watch him during a back check he keeps looking around seeing who to take. Most of our forwards (Jokinen for example) just put their head down and skate back as hard as they can. He's very good at picking up the third forward on a 2 on 2 situation. He will put the brakes on and swing over to cover them as they cross the blue line.

One serious issue I saw was he skates to close to our puck carrier in the neutral zone. Sometimes it's so close that a pass isn't available because the other team player would be right on Scheifele the second he gets the puck. He also seemed to slow down the puck carrier at times. He needs to move to open ice a little further away from the puck carrier in order to receive a clean pass.

edit : I have to add the kid is a treat to watch without the puck, offensively or defensively. Usually he's very good at puck support and angling opposing puck carriers. He just needs to work on his finish, and he could be elite one day.
I think he still needs work on defensive awareness. He floated back with a forward and left him open in the slot for an easy goal on one shift. It was his man all the way, and he let him free in our slot.

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