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PK Subban to Oilers or Wings

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Old
01-31-2013, 05:25 PM
  #76
Dharvey33
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Originally Posted by Iceonfire View Post
That cheap?

Pronger in his prime was traded for a very rough and young Smid, Lupul a 1st, a conditional 1st and a 2nd.

So what has Subban done to earn a return that would be similar to what Pronger received?

Even when EDM traded for Pronger in the 1st place they traded Brewer, Woywitka and Lynch.

Here you have a young D with good upside, a winger with size, a mid to early 1st, and a 3rd next year.

You may not agree, but considering his attitude and contract, this trade is fair.
Subban isn't going anywhere.

That's pretty much it stop oilers fans stop it about Subban he won't be an oiler anytime soon. Maybe after his career who knows what i may be worth in 15 years haha.

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01-31-2013, 05:28 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Iceonfire View Post
That cheap?

Pronger in his prime was traded for a very rough and young Smid, Lupul a 1st, a conditional 1st and a 2nd.

So what has Subban done to earn a return that would be similar to what Pronger received?

Even when EDM traded for Pronger in the 1st place they traded Brewer, Woywitka and Lynch.

Here you have a young D with good upside, a winger with size, a mid to early 1st, and a 3rd next year.

You may not agree, but considering his attitude and contract, this trade is fair.
No, it isn't fair because other teams will offer a much better piece and maybe a + to even it up.

Do you not think that Toronto or Philly would offer up a better package then that because I'm sure they would.

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01-31-2013, 05:33 PM
  #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceonfire View Post
That cheap?

Pronger in his prime was traded for a very rough and young Smid, Lupul a 1st, a conditional 1st and a 2nd.

So what has Subban done to earn a return that would be similar to what Pronger received?

Even when EDM traded for Pronger in the 1st place they traded Brewer, Woywitka and Lynch.

Here you have a young D with good upside, a winger with size, a mid to early 1st, and a 3rd next year.

You may not agree, but considering his attitude and contract, this trade is fair.
Paajarvi is not really needed on the Habs and we would be exchanging Subban for Petry. In that case I'd much prefer keeping Subban with his attitude and great contract. Other than the 2013 1st round pick I don't see how this trade makes the Habs better and why they would even consider it.

You trade to make your team better and I can't see how this trade makes the Habs better TBH.

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01-31-2013, 05:33 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceonfire View Post
That cheap?

Pronger in his prime was traded for a very rough and young Smid, Lupul a 1st, a conditional 1st and a 2nd.

So what has Subban done to earn a return that would be similar to what Pronger received?

Even when EDM traded for Pronger in the 1st place they traded Brewer, Woywitka and Lynch.

Here you have a young D with good upside, a winger with size, a mid to early 1st, and a 3rd next year.

You may not agree, but considering his attitude and contract, this trade is fair.
Fair or not...its not happening.

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Old
01-31-2013, 05:45 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Horseradish View Post
Smith couldn't land a #2 d-man straight up, let alone a franchise d-man. This is crazy talk. I see his ceiling as somebody like Tom Gilbert or Hamrlik. A good d-man, average #2 option, good at both ends of the ice, but nothing more, and not somebody who can take over a game.
Smith would never be traded 1 for 1 for a dman. He would be part of a package for a better dman than him.

As to Smith's ability to take over games I disagree. You can already see Smith at times take over a game. When Smith is on he is that good. He plays alot like a faster slightly, bigger, Kronwall (maybe a better shot). Not all that different than Subban. He is of course young and inexperienced. But he absolutely has the ability to take over a game. I think his upside is higher than Kronwall personally.

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01-31-2013, 06:08 PM
  #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iceonfire View Post
That cheap?

Pronger in his prime was traded for a very rough and young Smid, Lupul a 1st, a conditional 1st and a 2nd.

So what has Subban done to earn a return that would be similar to what Pronger received?

Even when EDM traded for Pronger in the 1st place they traded Brewer, Woywitka and Lynch.

Here you have a young D with good upside, a winger with size, a mid to early 1st, and a 3rd next year.

You may not agree, but considering his attitude and contract, this trade is fair.
you can't make a parallele between pronger and subban, Subban's only 23 years old, btw you knew the habs traded ribeiro for niniima ( who only played a few games in the nhl after this trade ) was it a fair trade ? surely not...

edit : you know it can go the other way, why not yakupov for palushaj, eller and a first ?

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01-31-2013, 07:03 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Chacal667 View Post
you can't make a parallele between pronger and subban, Subban's only 23 years old, btw you knew the habs traded ribeiro for niniima ( who only played a few games in the nhl after this trade ) was it a fair trade ? surely not...

edit : you know it can go the other way, why not yakupov for palushaj, eller and a first ?
Edmonton is entering a win now phase and is certainly done rebuilding,

If Yakupov had issues with the team and had contract disputes Gorges, Eller a 1st and a conditional pick wouldn't sound that bad.

I see what you MTL fans are saying. It is not the the value is terrible, but there is no reason to trade him unless it is an overpayment. Which EDM would not do but there are some teams that might.

I really like Subban but there seems to be a rift with him and the team. If he stays in MTL long term then I hope he has a great career.

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01-31-2013, 09:25 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Iceonfire View Post
Edmonton is entering a win now phase and is certainly done rebuilding,

If Yakupov had issues with the team and had contract disputes Gorges, Eller a 1st and a conditional pick wouldn't sound that bad.

I see what you MTL fans are saying. It is not the the value is terrible, but there is no reason to trade him unless it is an overpayment. Which EDM would not do but there are some teams that might.

I really like Subban but there seems to be a rift with him and the team. If he stays in MTL long term then I hope he has a great career.
i think they're saying that Subban isn't holding any cards like Pronger was when he asked to be traded.

there is no rift between Subban and the team. they were simply sick of all the media attention Subban got for holding out for an extra $750K.

i find this really silly. you think it's fair that the Oilers trade scraps away to get Subban because he seems to cause problems in the locker room? why in the hell would you want that on your team then if that were true.

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Old
01-31-2013, 10:02 PM
  #84
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We won't trade him just to trade him, and we won't trade him for some subpar prospects and lame draft picks. You have to give up quality to get quality in return. And it hurts, I know it hurts..

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Old
01-31-2013, 10:07 PM
  #85
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Subban and Desharnais for Petry and a first.

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01-31-2013, 10:12 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
Subban and Desharnais for Petry and a first.
add in Price and Pacioretty and you have a deal.

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Old
01-31-2013, 11:25 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
Subban and Desharnais for Petry and a first.
A 2011 first?

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Old
02-01-2013, 01:01 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
Subban and Desharnais for Petry and a first.
I thought you were a Habs fan even though I've never seen you post on the Habs board and after proposing this I'm not sure now.

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Old
02-01-2013, 07:31 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by OilCanada92 View Post
40 point Dman with a money wanting attitude isn't worth the "big" 4. Get prospects and someone to fill in the slot.
I guess Hall is a forward with a "money wanting attitude" not worth Subban since he didn't sign for less than 6 million per season. Right?

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02-01-2013, 07:47 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Marlowe Syn View Post
Fair enough. I made the cardinal mistake here of listening to SOME Montreal fans hyping/overvaluing their player.
Sigh...I should just cut and paste this:

Subban is 1 of 15 defencemen in the entire NHL to:

Post over 32 points
Play over 24 minutes per game
Give over 100 hits
Make over 100 blocked shots
Play in every situation (PK, PP, ES)
Play against the opposition's top line


Add the fact that all of the guys who played with him had a higher +\- rating when he was on the ice, the fact that he is top 5 in the league at drawing penalties, has only played 2 seasons, and is only 23 years old. Montreal fans are not "hyping/overvaluing" their player, they realize what he has already achieved AND know he is still improving. What you are seeing in this thread are typical "take our quantity for your quality" offers, or hockey ignorant people hoping to get Subban for cheap getting pissy when Habs fans point out the lack of value in the offers. I could also add that he is signed to an amazing deal. Even some hockey analysts thought he should get 5 million per season.

Subban is already a #1 defenceman and would be on multiple teams. You want him, pay. You don't, ignore the thread. Please, just don't make bull$#!t offers and get upset when they are laughed at (this was a general comment for all, not the guy I replied to).

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02-01-2013, 09:41 AM
  #91
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I thought you were a Habs fan even though I've never seen you post on the Habs board and after proposing this I'm not sure now.
The way i see it is that Petry is gonna make up for a huge part of losing Subban. He's big and plays a lotta minutes. I don't see Edmonton making the playoffs this year. Beyond their fab 5 , they hardly have anything. A coupla injuries to their top 5 and their gonna drop big time. That first rounder is gonna have a big chance of landing in the top 5. I know Subban will eventually help them but initially they will have little in the way of chemistry. Any first rounders with a chance of landing Seth Jones are pretty valuable. When it comes to Desharnais, we would not get a first rounder for him. Anyone who thinks we are ok down the middle is in denial.

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02-01-2013, 10:36 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
I guess Hall is a forward with a "money wanting attitude" not worth Subban since he didn't sign for less than 6 million per season. Right?
Hall could end with almost 60 pts this shorten season. Earned the money. Plus, with his bonus's and milestones he's made a 2.5 rise. Rookie contract was worth about 3-3.5 million. At least he didn't sit there waiting for higher dollars and actually get his fans making proposals because they thought they were gonna lose him. Subban took a pay cut of what anyone would give him, I would've given him 3 years at 4 million, his talent, speed, and overall playing is terrific. But to make a "3 million dollar gap" or "no even close to a deal" rumors and speculations start. Uneasy with me. But hey, thats my opinion.

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02-01-2013, 11:16 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
The way i see it is that Petry is gonna make up for a huge part of losing Subban. He's big and plays a lotta minutes. I don't see Edmonton making the playoffs this year. Beyond their fab 5 , they hardly have anything. A coupla injuries to their top 5 and their gonna drop big time. That first rounder is gonna have a big chance of landing in the top 5. I know Subban will eventually help them but initially they will have little in the way of chemistry. Any first rounders with a chance of landing Seth Jones are pretty valuable. When it comes to Desharnais, we would not get a first rounder for him. Anyone who thinks we are ok down the middle is in denial.

Well the way I see it is trading Subban and DD for Petry and a 1st doesn't improve the Habs.. You make trades to improve your team and trading the best player in the deal for a dman not as good plus an unknown asset just doesn't make sense to me..

Plus it's way too early to tell where the Oilers end up in the standings at this point. That pick could end up being in the 15-20 range for all we know and if that happened the return for Subban and DD would be bad for the Habs.

It's never a good idea to base proposals on alot of things that may or may not even happen and where "you" think and hope the Oilers end up in the standings. Bad trade for the Habs IMO.

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Old
02-01-2013, 12:18 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
Subban and Desharnais for Petry and a first.
I thought you were being sarcastic. I HOPED you were being sarcastic. Seeing you defend this abomination of an offer is repulsive beyond belief, though. Petry and a 1st aren't worth Subban alone, why are you tossing DD into the deal? Wow, are you certain you aren't an Oilers fan in disguise? Actually, that can not be true, either, because even real Oilers fans have offered better packages than that for Subban alone!

Please, do not try and defend this garbage any further. Tell us all you were simply joking and let it end. Just let it end.

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02-01-2013, 12:30 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by OilCanada92 View Post
Hall could end with almost 60 pts this shorten season. Earned the money. Plus, with his bonus's and milestones he's made a 2.5 rise. Rookie contract was worth about 3-3.5 million. At least he didn't sit there waiting for higher dollars and actually get his fans making proposals because they thought they were gonna lose him. Subban took a pay cut of what anyone would give him, I would've given him 3 years at 4 million, his talent, speed, and overall playing is terrific. But to make a "3 million dollar gap" or "no even close to a deal" rumors and speculations start. Uneasy with me. But hey, thats my opinion.
My point was lost, I guess.

Try looking at it this way:

Subban wanted more money and term. He held out long enough to make a point, and then decided that he would rather not be a distraction to the team and accepted the lowball offer because he is not all about the money or simpy in it for himself. I wish people would look at things from more than one angle sometimes. Take Justin Schultz as an example. Go and ask Anaheim fans what they think of him and then ask Oilers fans their opinions. They will be very different due to how he dealt with the Anaheim organization (at least that is what I have been given to understand from some Anaheim fans).

There are three sides to every story: my side, your side, and the truth. Subban and the Habs had their version of events, the truth is in the middle. Rather than assume that Subban was being selfish and a money grubbing cancer, think of him as holding out on principle to make a point, and then doing the best thing for the team he loves and wants to play for. Believe me, he could have held out longer and probably would have been dealt to another team that would have paid him far better. People need to stop with all the negative bull$#it about Subban's supposed "attitude" problems. Just like people should leave Yakupov alone for his celebrations. The guy is scoring and loving it! Good for him. Let the kid have fun. I don't believe he is "showing players up" or any of that crap, I think he is an exuberant kid who is loving his successes at the NHL level. Some people would disagree with me, as the Phoenix players clearly did. Again, it is all about perspective.

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02-01-2013, 12:56 PM
  #96
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So here is a list of acceptable players Detroit would trade Smith straight up:

Doughty
Pietrangelo
Weber
Karlsson
Phaneuf
Keith

Anything less and it's a lateral move. No dice.
LOL, this made my day. I laughed so hard my coworkers were wondering what was going on

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02-01-2013, 12:57 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
My point was lost, I guess.

Try looking at it this way:

Subban wanted more money and term. He held out long enough to make a point, and then decided that he would rather not be a distraction to the team and accepted the lowball offer because he is not all about the money or simpy in it for himself. I wish people would look at things from more than one angle sometimes. Take Justin Schultz as an example. Go and ask Anaheim fans what they think of him and then ask Oilers fans their opinions. They will be very different due to how he dealt with the Anaheim organization (at least that is what I have been given to understand from some Anaheim fans).

There are three sides to every story: my side, your side, and the truth. Subban and the Habs had their version of events, the truth is in the middle. Rather than assume that Subban was being selfish and a money grubbing cancer, think of him as holding out on principle to make a point, and then doing the best thing for the team he loves and wants to play for. Believe me, he could have held out longer and probably would have been dealt to another team that would have paid him far better. People need to stop with all the negative bull$#it about Subban's supposed "attitude" problems. Just like people should leave Yakupov alone for his celebrations. The guy is scoring and loving it! Good for him. Let the kid have fun. I don't believe he is "showing players up" or any of that crap, I think he is an exuberant kid who is loving his successes at the NHL level. Some people would disagree with me, as the Phoenix players clearly did. Again, it is all about perspective.
I agree with majority of what you're getting at, but what makes a "point" last 8 months. If he knew he wanted to sign the why didn't just sign? I see what you mean by saying "get the point across". But I see it as if you're trying to get a point across make that point Bourque or Gionta. Not when the fan base sees you at the "#2" for the best on the team and one of the MVPs. Too much of a heart attack 8 months if I was more of a fan imo I'm saying every player deserves their dollars and every players is different. What I'm saying is that if the Oilers trade one of there guys who like it here, for a guy who held out to a team he does want to say with. What would he do to a team he was traded too? Oilers would technically possibly lose 2 players. Not worth the risk is what I'm saying as a Oiler fan. I'd rather keep Petry hahaha

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Old
02-01-2013, 05:18 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by Drydenwasthebest View Post
I thought you were being sarcastic. I HOPED you were being sarcastic. Seeing you defend this abomination of an offer is repulsive beyond belief, though. Petry and a 1st aren't worth Subban alone, why are you tossing DD into the deal? Wow, are you certain you aren't an Oilers fan in disguise? Actually, that can not be true, either, because even real Oilers fans have offered better packages than that for Subban alone!

Please, do not try and defend this garbage any further. Tell us all you were simply joking and let it end. Just let it end.
I'm curious as to how much value you think Desharnais has. I don't know if you have noticed but were a BIT soft down the middle. If we wanted to trade Desharnais I think were gonna have a problem finding a team that wants him. As for Subban, don't you find it a bit odd that he's not playing yet. This stuff about how he has to learn the system and both players and coaches speaking in the media about him having to have a team first attitude. Also concerns about his conditioning. Subban is probalbly the best conditioned athlete on the habs so that is crap.

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02-01-2013, 05:39 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by glenbuis View Post
I'm curious as to how much value you think Desharnais has. I don't know if you have noticed but were a BIT soft down the middle. If we wanted to trade Desharnais I think were gonna have a problem finding a team that wants him. As for Subban, don't you find it a bit odd that he's not playing yet. This stuff about how he has to learn the system and both players and coaches speaking in the media about him having to have a team first attitude. Also concerns about his conditioning. Subban is probalbly the best conditioned athlete on the habs so that is crap.
DD scored 60 points last year in his first full season. He is worth more than a negative which is what you are treating him as when you include him in a deal that doesn't offer fair value for the primary player involved. As far as Subban goes, if you haven't figured out how valuable he is by now, I can do nothing to help you. I have posted in this thread what type of defenceman Subban is. I gave clear details on how good he is. You do NOT give a player like that away for Petry and a 1st. Bergevin could have made a deal with Philly for Subban and refused to do so. That seems to indicate he values him quite highly. Don't worry. Subban will play this week-end. Therrien is simply tryiong to prove he is a hard @$$ and put his stamp on the team by pushing a team concept over an individual concept. Subban will be fine, will continue to play well, and will be the great player knowledgeable hockey people have always claimed he will be.

Subban will not be traded for a decent defenceman and a 1st. We will definitely be adding DD to that stupid offer. Why are there so many fans of other teams who seem to grasp this and you don't??

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02-01-2013, 05:45 PM
  #100
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Paajarvi, Whitney, and 1st
Like clockwork

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