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Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must use the RUMOR prefix in thread title. Proposals must contain the PROPOSAL prefix in the thread title.

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Old
02-01-2013, 11:54 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Thanks for sharing.
Just in response that theres no other interest than Johansen.

I think most avs fans would be interested in Jack Johnson.

Dont know if the Jackets would ever consider trading him, but thats kinda how we feel about ROR also.

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02-01-2013, 12:08 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by EddieAVS View Post
Just in response that theres no other interest than Johansen.

I think most avs fans would be interested in Jack Johnson.

Dont know if the Jackets would ever consider trading him, but thats kinda how we feel about ROR also.
I imagine the Avs would also have interest in guys like Sidney Crosby and Claude Giroux, but nobody bothers to ask about them.

There are names you just don't even bring up in discussions like this. Seriously. That's equivalent to the guy in the main ROR thread who suggested Keith and/or Seabrook.

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02-01-2013, 12:19 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I imagine the Avs would also have interest in guys like Sidney Crosby and Claude Giroux, but nobody bothers to ask about them.

There are names you just don't even bring up in discussions like this. Seriously. That's equivalent to the guy in the main ROR thread who suggested Keith and/or Seabrook.
You're seriously not comparing Jack Johnson to Keith or Seabrook are you? Not to mention bringing up Crosby and Malkin. Please tell me I read that wrong or I'm going to start thinking im in bizarro world.

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02-01-2013, 12:19 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by DropkickQuinn View Post
Johansen has looked like a whole new player this year. Don't see the Jackets giving up on him that easily
REGULAR SEASON 8 0 2 2 -3\

Garbage player

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Old
02-01-2013, 12:20 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I imagine the Avs would also have interest in guys like Sidney Crosby and Claude Giroux, but nobody bothers to ask about them.

There are names you just don't even bring up in discussions like this. Seriously. That's equivalent to the guy in the main ROR thread who suggested Keith and/or Seabrook.
Holy honking hyperbole.

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02-01-2013, 12:29 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
I imagine the Avs would also have interest in guys like Sidney Crosby and Claude Giroux, but nobody bothers to ask about them.

There are names you just don't even bring up in discussions like this. Seriously. That's equivalent to the guy in the main ROR thread who suggested Keith and/or Seabrook.
Lets not go overboard here.

Jack johnson AND 8th overall was traded for Jeff Carter, kind of implying that Johnson is worth a decent amout less than Carter.

And I know that ROR is worth less than Carter, but seriously...Giroux, Crosby, Keith??? Lets not go crazy here.

I didnt know JJ went from being worth less than Carter to being in the same realm of trade talks as a generational talent, a norris winner, and quite possibly one of the best young centers in the game.

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02-01-2013, 12:33 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by EddieAVS View Post
Lets not go overboard here.

Jack johnson AND 8th overall was traded for Jeff Carter, kind of implying that Johnson is worth a decent amout less than Carter.

And I know that ROR is worth less than Carter, but seriously...Giroux, Crosby, Keith??? Lets not go crazy here.

I didnt know JJ went from being worth less than Carter to being in the same realm of trade talks as a generational talent, a norris winner, and quite possibly one of the best young centers in the game.
Those were two separate deals

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02-01-2013, 12:38 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by candyman82 View Post
Those were two separate deals
From TSN:

"Los Angeles Kings traded Jack Johnson and a conditional first-round draft pick in either 2012 or 2013 to the Columbus Blue Jackets for Jeff Carter."

Edit: Im wrong about it being the 8th overall.

Its actually just a 1st rounder. Was it decided if it was 2012 or 2013?

Regardless, the LA kings, at the time of the trade, were tied for 15th in the league. So the pick, at the time, was 13th to 15th overall.


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Old
02-01-2013, 12:46 PM
  #84
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Pushed on 2012, so CBJ has LA's 1st this year.

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02-01-2013, 01:10 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by hockeyGod View Post
You're seriously not comparing Jack Johnson to Keith or Seabrook are you? Not to mention bringing up Crosby and Malkin. Please tell me I read that wrong or I'm going to start thinking im in bizarro world.
Only in terms of relative team value. Certainly not in terms of overall talent or league impact.

The problem here is that every once in a while I find myself trying to find a way to reply to something wherein it feels like the only sensible followup is "**** off, *******", and yet one can't actually come out and SAY that because it's not permitted under HFBoards rules of conduct. So I start searching - sometimes in vain - to get a similar message across in a way that at least approximates being respectful and reasonable without going totally off the deep end. This - someone asking for JMFJ for, well, anything - is one of those times.

I mean, c'mon. You're in a discussion about a high-quality #2C with upside. Previous discussion has established that there are lines neither team wishes to cross, and this has been agreed upon. Then someone comes in, blithely ignores that prior discussion and goes well beyond those limits by casually suggesting you should throw in the closest thing to the face of your franchise - and when blown off, continues to push the idea as though it is somehow a legitimate, serious concept to be considered. How is one supposed to react? "Oh, sure, go right ahead, take all our 1st round picks while you're at it?"

* * *
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Originally Posted by EddieAVS View Post
Lets not go overboard here.
We went overboard when you asked for JMFJ. Too late.

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Old
02-01-2013, 01:41 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Cash for Nash View Post
Yep....There isn't one. We (CBJ) are going to be bad for awhile and the last thing we need to be doing is screwing around trading our best prospects, one of which is seemingly turning the corner for a good player with not nearly the upside of RJ.
Things have gotten a little wacky in here, but this is what it boils down to for CBJ. While sure anyone would like to add a good young player like ROR, it doesn't make much sense to give away two young players in the process, the kind of players the team needs to be adding to, not swapping out.

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Old
02-01-2013, 02:06 PM
  #87
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A more fair deal would be

Brassard
Erixon

For

O'Reilly

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02-01-2013, 02:14 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Numbers View Post
A more fair deal would be

Brassard
Erixon

For

O'Reilly
And I would hate it for the Avs.

Don't know why you are freaking out viqsi.

I think something around ROR for JMFJ is a better and fairer proposal than 70 % of other deals proposed on here.

Don't get me wrong. JJ is good. But he is not Keith/ Karlsson / Doughty kind of good.

So no reason to get mad IMO.

We are not going to get JJ for ROR. But it is not some kind of ridiculous or insulting kind of proposal...

Don't think that CBJ and COL are good trading partners.
CBJ is too high on Johansen to trade him right now.
The other young talent is off limit as well.
And Avs have no interest in Brassard, Dubi or Erixon ( I am not high on him. Barrie and Elliott are at least not too far behind him)

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02-01-2013, 02:17 PM
  #89
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Originally Posted by Rockies94 View Post
Jesus, a few games and Johansen has gotten a little overrated eh?

O'Reilly is more proven and I question some that are saying Johansen has higher upside. A 70+ point center who could have some selke trophies vs a ppg center with solid defense.. Which is more valuable to you?
Where is there a 70+ center anywhere is these proposal's ?? The poster who said Brassard and Erixon for ROR is onto something.

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Old
02-01-2013, 02:29 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Only in terms of relative team value. Certainly not in terms of overall talent or league impact.

The problem here is that every once in a while I find myself trying to find a way to reply to something wherein it feels like the only sensible followup is "**** off, *******", and yet one can't actually come out and SAY that because it's not permitted under HFBoards rules of conduct. So I start searching - sometimes in vain - to get a similar message across in a way that at least approximates being respectful and reasonable without going totally off the deep end. This - someone asking for JMFJ for, well, anything - is one of those times.

I mean, c'mon. You're in a discussion about a high-quality #2C with upside. Previous discussion has established that there are lines neither team wishes to cross, and this has been agreed upon. Then someone comes in, blithely ignores that prior discussion and goes well beyond those limits by casually suggesting you should throw in the closest thing to the face of your franchise - and when blown off, continues to push the idea as though it is somehow a legitimate, serious concept to be considered. How is one supposed to react? "Oh, sure, go right ahead, take all our 1st round picks while you're at it?"

* * *


We went overboard when you asked for JMFJ. Too late.
Well that makes sense, but you should probably just stick with Jack Johnson is too valuable to our team to trade at the moment.

In terms of league value I would say that ROR and JMFJ are very close. Both bring different things to the table, personally I'd rather have ROR but thats just my preference.

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02-01-2013, 02:50 PM
  #91
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Originally Posted by Mr Tarkanian View Post
Where is there a 70+ center anywhere is these proposal's ?? The poster who said Brassard and Erixon for ROR is onto something.
Replacement offensive center that wouldn't beat Stastny or Duchene for a roster spot and isn't really suited for the 3rd line role (ignoring that we have Mitchell currently who seems to be doing fine there and Sgarbossa in the system) and a defensive prospect that doesn't surpass any of Elliott/Barrie/Siemens in any significant way.

Why do we trade O'Reilly for that?

Just like the people scoffing at Johansen having been brought up, Avs have no reason to move O'Reilly for pieces that don't address our needs.

I would want two pieces to move O'Reilly. A quality 3rd line defensive center and a young, top 4 with top 2 upside defender. If we have to add, we have to add. But I would not move O'Reilly for less than that (unless our 3rd need, being a top line scoring RW was brought up, which is more rare than what I'm asking for).

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02-01-2013, 03:19 PM
  #92
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Sorry, but who is JMFJ ??

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02-01-2013, 03:29 PM
  #93
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Sorry, but who is JMFJ ??
http://mgoblog.blogspot.com/2007/03/jmfj.html

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02-01-2013, 03:47 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
And I would hate it for the Avs.

Don't know why you are freaking out viqsi.
Because YOU DON'T ****ING PUSH FOR JMFJ.

This should not be a difficult concept for people to swallow.

Remember what the one, only, exclusive, and immutable answer for anyone in any way asking in any form for any deal about Rick Nash was, before he actually requested a trade? It's like that, only JMFJ is not about to request a trade. JMFJ loves it here. And yes, Nash loved it here too, but he'd also been here for a decade of horror and abuse.

This is a market and a fanbase that is constantly - constantly - browbeaten by idiots insisting that our very existence is an insult to and a curse on the game of hockey. That we caused the lockout. That we should never have existed. That there are no fans here - or at least any that matter.

Imagine going through that. Now, watch as your star player - THE face of the franchise for the last DECADE - requests a trade, and eventually leaves. And then bring in a guy who is not only the #1D that you've needed since the franchise was conceived, but also responds to coming here with not just good cheer, but out and out upbeat enthusiasm and excitement, and after his arrival suddenly the team starts playing much more effectively and much more motivated. Like a long-held dream slowly coming true.

And then have twits come along and suggest that he's dime-a-dozen and that it should be perfectly fine for you to trade him for the New Contract-Dispute-Induced-Availability Hotness. And when you tell them "hell no", you get lectured to as though, once again, you know nothing of hockey.

But, no, it's no big deal, nothing to get annoyed about.

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02-01-2013, 04:13 PM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Because YOU DON'T ****ING PUSH FOR JMFJ.

This should not be a difficult concept for people to swallow.

Remember what the one, only, exclusive, and immutable answer for anyone in any way asking in any form for any deal about Rick Nash was, before he actually requested a trade? It's like that, only JMFJ is not about to request a trade. JMFJ loves it here. And yes, Nash loved it here too, but he'd also been here for a decade of horror and abuse.

This is a market and a fanbase that is constantly - constantly - browbeaten by idiots insisting that our very existence is an insult to and a curse on the game of hockey. That we caused the lockout. That we should never have existed. That there are no fans here - or at least any that matter.

Imagine going through that. Now, watch as your star player - THE face of the franchise for the last DECADE - requests a trade, and eventually leaves. And then bring in a guy who is not only the #1D that you've needed since the franchise was conceived, but also responds to coming here with not just good cheer, but out and out upbeat enthusiasm and excitement, and after his arrival suddenly the team starts playing much more effectively and much more motivated. Like a long-held dream slowly coming true.

And then have twits come along and suggest that he's dime-a-dozen and that it should be perfectly fine for you to trade him for the New Contract-Dispute-Induced-Availability Hotness. And when you tell them "hell no", you get lectured to as though, once again, you know nothing of hockey.

But, no, it's no big deal, nothing to get annoyed about.
It seems like my slight comment seems to have pushed buttons on topics that I have had absolutely nothing to do with. I made a simple comment about JMFJ and it induced a mass commentary about Nash, the lockout, the bjs as an organization.

But yes, my 6 or 7 word sentence was me FING PUSHING for JMFJ.

In fact, I did do some homework on a proposal between these two teams that I thought would be helpful. I looked at the roster and saw that on d, the jackets have at least a couple of Dmen that can contribute offensively and on the pp in Wiz and Tyutin. So I figured that at least there are some replacements if JJ weren't there. Now, obviously, no one can make up all the PK and ES minutes that JJ plays, so I thought of offering Ryan Wilson as a guy who can play strong ES and PK minutes while giving a minor contribution to the offense.

Obviously, Wilson for JJ makes no sense. But including RoR makes it much better, and I would assume (now hopefully my minor assumption doesn't cause another random rant) that this would be skewed in the BJs favor.

So to balance, I add mark letestu, a replacement for the Avs for what they lose in the face off circle and PK from the loss of ROR.

IMO, I thought this created a good balance for each team. Gave the Avs more balance on defense and sacrificed their center depth. On the other hand, this gives the BJs also more balance and more options among their forwards.

So in all, JMFJ + letestu for ROR + Ryan Wilson. Of course, assuming the jackets speak with ROR and come to terms on a contract.

But of course, you preferred to jump all over me for a simple comment, which seems to have stemmed from years of you being insulted by other fans, posters and whatnot.

I legitimately thought this was a decent proposal that could have some basis to a deal. But you decided to lose it on me. I don't believe I've ever spoken to you on this forum, nor have I seen an incessant amount of CBj-col proposals including JJ to cause you such distress.

Perhaps next time, you should refrain from bringing up all of your past angers to a conversation.

At the end of the day, we're fans posting ideas to discuss. Perhaps you shouldn't let it get so personal. These teams don't belong to us.

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02-01-2013, 04:16 PM
  #96
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Because YOU DON'T ****ING PUSH FOR JMFJ.

This should not be a difficult concept for people to swallow.

Remember what the one, only, exclusive, and immutable answer for anyone in any way asking in any form for any deal about Rick Nash was, before he actually requested a trade? It's like that, only JMFJ is not about to request a trade. JMFJ loves it here. And yes, Nash loved it here too, but he'd also been here for a decade of horror and abuse.

This is a market and a fanbase that is constantly - constantly - browbeaten by idiots insisting that our very existence is an insult to and a curse on the game of hockey. That we caused the lockout. That we should never have existed. That there are no fans here - or at least any that matter.

Imagine going through that. Now, watch as your star player - THE face of the franchise for the last DECADE - requests a trade, and eventually leaves. And then bring in a guy who is not only the #1D that you've needed since the franchise was conceived, but also responds to coming here with not just good cheer, but out and out upbeat enthusiasm and excitement, and after his arrival suddenly the team starts playing much more effectively and much more motivated. Like a long-held dream slowly coming true.

And then have twits come along and suggest that he's dime-a-dozen and that it should be perfectly fine for you to trade him for the New Contract-Dispute-Induced-Availability Hotness. And when you tell them "hell no", you get lectured to as though, once again, you know nothing of hockey.

But, no, it's no big deal, nothing to get annoyed about.
Wow. Sounds like one hell of an inferiority complex.
And I don't blame you. But hell are you overreacting right here.

No one said that JJ is a dime a dozen.
But is he a Top5 dman in this league? Certainly not.
Is he a Top10 dman? I don't think so.
Is he a Top15 dman? Maybe. I don't know. You probably can make an argument for or against. I would certainly argue against.
(Chara,Weber, Suter, Letang, Keith, Seabrook, Doughty, Karlsson, Pietrangelo I take over him for sure and there are many others I would take over him but where I could see maybe an argument against it).



Don't get me wrong. I don't like what Nash did and I can relate a little bit (other sports) but we are discussing hypotheticals here.
Columbus will not trade JMFJ under any circumstance (well.. maybe if someone offers sth crazy) exactly for the reasons you just stated.

He means too much to you. He is the "successor" to Nash and all this.

But the bottom line is, that ROR for JMFJ is not an insulting offer.

I for one disliked everyother offer from CBJ in this thread ( probably cause I am a homer)
Everyone evaluates players differently. But there is some kind of slight consent that can be found.

And I just don't see how this offer is insulting.

The CBJ GM ( still Howson?) will say No Thanks if Sherm asks for JMFJ.
But he has no reason to get mad at Sherm for offering ROR for JMFJ.
That is my take.
That is why I was a lil confused about your outburst.

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02-01-2013, 05:34 PM
  #97
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieAVS View Post
It seems like my slight comment seems to have pushed buttons on topics that I have had absolutely nothing to do with. I made a simple comment about JMFJ and it induced a mass commentary about Nash, the lockout, the bjs as an organization.

But yes, my 6 or 7 word sentence was me FING PUSHING for JMFJ.
No, that was the fact that after it discussed, dismissed, and even brusquely brushed off as offensive and unwelcome, you decided to keep pushing the idea.

Not one sentence. Several posts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieAVS View Post
In fact, I did do some homework on a proposal between these two teams that I thought would be helpful. I looked at the roster and saw that on d, the jackets have at least a couple of Dmen that can contribute offensively and on the pp in Wiz and Tyutin. So I figured that at least there are some replacements if JJ weren't there.
You also apparently missed the first 3/4ths of last year, when we had those same guys (at times, when injuries weren't going crazy) but not JMFJ.

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Originally Posted by EddieAVS View Post
Now, obviously, no one can make up all the PK and ES minutes that JJ plays, so I thought of offering Ryan Wilson as a guy who can play strong ES and PK minutes while giving a minor contribution to the offense.
If he can't play large numbers of those minutes, it wouldn't matter. We have no shortage of guys who are "okay".

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Originally Posted by EddieAVS View Post
Obviously, Wilson for JJ makes no sense. But including RoR makes it much better, and I would assume (now hopefully my minor assumption doesn't cause another random rant) that this would be skewed in the BJs favor.

So to balance, I add mark letestu, a replacement for the Avs for what they lose in the face off circle and PK from the loss of ROR.

IMO, I thought this created a good balance for each team. Gave the Avs more balance on defense and sacrificed their center depth. On the other hand, this gives the BJs also more balance and more options among their forwards.

So in all, JMFJ + letestu for ROR + Ryan Wilson. Of course, assuming the jackets speak with ROR and come to terms on a contract.
See, I look at that and I see "#1D and #3C for #2C holdout and Yet Another #4D That We Have A Bloody Metric ****ton Of." Not good value.
Also, this is the first time you've mentioned Letestu. You were previously asking for Brassard.

As for "balance" among forwards... we've got eight centers already, and quite a few defensive forwards. ROR is a nice fit - but he's not necessarily an upgrade. He sure as heck isn't worth us giving JMFJ even before relative team value comes into play, any more than you guys would be willing to solve your "lack of scoring wingers to play with our centers" issue by trading Erik Johnson.

You guys should know this. You deal with the same issue. Why is it suddenly different when it's somebody else's everyone-else-desperately-claims-he's-not-actually-a #1D?

Quote:
Originally Posted by EddieAVS View Post
But of course, you preferred to jump all over me for a simple comment, which seems to have stemmed from years of you being insulted by other fans, posters and whatnot.
Because Colorado fans are ostensibly in an excellent position to know better than the average "lol blow jackets" fool w/r/t any JMFJ trade, and so I suppose I had unreasonably high expectations. Silly me.

That and you'd already had your answer given to you. Repeatedly.

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02-01-2013, 05:35 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
But the bottom line is, that ROR for JMFJ is not an insulting offer.
When a guy's been told "no" several times in the same thread and continues to press the issue, it gets a tad annoying. See: Stastny.

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Old
02-01-2013, 05:52 PM
  #99
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Johansen hasn't proven much so far, his value does drop each year the same as PRV from EDM. PRV pretty well now is worth nothing and in two season unless Johansen has a good year will be the same. CBJ did not develop this kid properly.

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02-01-2013, 06:03 PM
  #100
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
No, that was the fact that after it discussed, dismissed, and even brusquely brushed off as offensive and unwelcome, you decided to keep pushing the idea.

Not one sentence. Several posts.
Wow, so because one BJ fan had a small discussion with me, and actually, he spoke to me respectfully, and no other BJ fan said a word about it, I was to assume that was my suggestion was offensive, unwelcome?
He never made any type of insinuation like you're stating. He politely told me it wasn't worth JJ and brassard.
Stop trying to make it appear in a way it never was.

Quote:
You also apparently missed the first 3/4ths of last year, when we had those same guys (at times, when injuries weren't going crazy) but not JMFJ.



If he can't play large numbers of those minutes, it wouldn't matter. We have no shortage of guys who are "okay".
Wilson can play without question 20+ minutes a night, comfortably.

Quote:
See, I look at that and I see "#1D and #3C for #2C holdout and Yet Another #4D That We Have A Bloody Metric ****ton Of." Not good value.
Also, this is the first time you've mentioned Letestu. You were previously asking for Brassard.
And for me, I view letestu as a 4th C, and Wilson as a 3-4 who can play top pairing if need be.
And the reason I was asking for brassard was because I was making the package bigger. Regardless...

As for the holdout, how is this even an issue if, and I'm stating this AGAIN, the blue jackets come to terms with ROR PRIOR to the trade?

Quote:
As for "balance" among forwards... we've got eight centers already, and quite a few defensive forwards. ROR is a nice fit - but he's not necessarily an upgrade. He sure as heck isn't worth us giving JMFJ even before relative team value comes into play, any more than you guys would be willing to solve your "lack of scoring wingers to play with our centers" issue by trading Erik Johnson.

You guys should know this. You deal with the same issue. Why is it suddenly different when it's somebody else's everyone-else-desperately-claims-he's-not-actually-a #1D?
And I see this is where the major disagreement is. I see the jackets as a team that can produce from the backend even without JMFJ. And that ROR would help in providing more offense from the forward position, as that's what occurred to me was an issue.

I saw that the jackets were able to absorb the loss of JJ much more than the Avs losing EJ, because I see the jackets having more higher quality depth on defense.

For some reason you continue to include me in this group that has insulted jack Johnson, or "claimed he's not a #1D." I've said nothing of the sort, nor have I tried to make it seem like the blue jackets players are overvalued.

Quote:
Because Colorado fans are ostensibly in an excellent position to know better than the average "lol blow jackets" fool w/r/t any JMFJ trade, and so I suppose I had unreasonably high expectations. Silly me.

That and you'd already had your answer given to you. Repeatedly.
Again implying that I've insulted the blue jackets in some way by calling them the blow jackets.

And once again, the word "repeated" for some reason, to you, means 1 fan. He spoke with me in a civil manner, and never once made it seem like such an outrageous idea like you have. I guess in the future I will have to use one fan's opinion on an idea and use it as an entire fanbase's opinion.

I dont know what has happened to you in the past with other fans or posters, but perhaps, to those of us who aren't on this site as often as you are, you might want to communicate with people in a normal, non-overractive way.

My apologies for being such a d***-head and proposing an idea that I thought may develop a conversation, and insulting the entire blue jackets fan base.

Perhaps the next time you see a post that is unwelcome, and offensive, you should just refrain from posting.

You may have a hard finding other posters who would find my offer offensive.


Last edited by EdAVSfan: 02-01-2013 at 06:08 PM.
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