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All purpose Shawn Thornton Thread: Update: Out 7-10 days (Concussion) See post #125

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Old
02-01-2013, 05:27 PM
  #276
Colt.45Orr
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I've appreciated some of you long-time Thornton fans coming on here and reminding how I am not supporting him and just can't wait to replace/bury the guy: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...508&highlight=

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Old
02-01-2013, 05:27 PM
  #277
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48 game season. If Chara breaks his hand or hurts his shoulder in a fight, the Bruins chance of success this season is over. Risk vs. reward. Thornton's spot on the team is contingent on his ability to be the guy that answers the bell. He can also play a bit but not enough to justify his spot unless he brings the toughness to the table. If Chara has to fight his battle, then he's not worth a roster spot. Scott vs Chara is a no win situation for Boston.

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02-01-2013, 05:32 PM
  #278
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We should have done a third man in, don't give me any crap about code or honour. Shawn was giving away 50lbs on Scott, there was no fairness or honour in it. They have weight classes in the fight game for a reason. If we had Krejci receiving a beat down from somebody outweighing him by 50lbs Thorts wouldn't allow it to happen. Scott could really hurt somebody from sheer force so we shouldn't pretend to send in a tough guy half his size, nobody on the team should go it alone unless maybe Z and then it's a poor trade off.
I know Colton beat Scott last week and I think Shawn could get the upper hand as well but it would be few and far between. I fear for Orr his next meeting with Scott.

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02-01-2013, 05:32 PM
  #279
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Originally Posted by BNHL View Post
Not a fan of the Orrs,Scotts,McGrattans. I would nullify them by refusing to dress Thornton and directing the rest that they were off limits. I love tough hockey but that fight last night is needless rubbish.
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02-01-2013, 05:46 PM
  #280
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Thornton got beat, hope he's feeling OK. Svott did his job. They both did. No way you trade a Norris caliber for a 3 min a night thug regardless. No you don't look for revenge, you look for a win. Thornton will live and learn like the rest of us. Suck it up like he will... can't win'em all.

What's so complicated with all of this. If he wasn't injured we wouldn't have gotten out of the GDT...

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02-01-2013, 05:51 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by Fierce1 View Post
We should have done a third man in, don't give me any crap about code or honour. Shawn was giving away 50lbs on Scott, there was no fairness or honour in it. They have weight classes in the fight game for a reason. If we had Krejci receiving a beat down from somebody outweighing him by 50lbs Thorts wouldn't allow it to happen. Scott could really hurt somebody from sheer force so we shouldn't pretend to send in a tough guy half his size, nobody on the team should go it alone unless maybe Z and then it's a poor trade off.
I know Colton beat Scott last week and I think Shawn could get the upper hand as well but it would be few and far between. I fear for Orr his next meeting with Scott.
That's exactly what Thorts was doing, ya banana. Protecting his players. Thorts just didn't tie up his right hand like he usually does.

Scott is huge. Any big man can hit. But Orr has a gift. Crazy reach for his size, and bone breaking power. Orr catches you, you're going to sleep. Actually what was impressive a/b Lucic taking his shots and staying vertical. Something even Scott couldn't do.

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Old
02-01-2013, 05:56 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by loudi94 View Post
48 game season. If Chara breaks his hand or hurts his shoulder in a fight, the Bruins chance of success this season is over. Risk vs. reward. Thornton's spot on the team is contingent on his ability to be the guy that answers the bell. He can also play a bit but not enough to justify his spot unless he brings the toughness to the table. If Chara has to fight his battle, then he's not worth a roster spot. Scott vs Chara is a no win situation for Boston.
Let's see, here are some guys Chara fought last year

Jay Harrison
Robyn Regehr
Jody Shelley
Chris Neil

The year before that

Chris Neil

The year before that

Mike Rupp

The year before that

Chris Thorburn
Boris Valabik
Evgeny Artyukhin

The year before that

David Koci
Guillaume Latendresse
Georges Laraque
Donald Brashear


So, big Chara is no shrinking violet. He has fought a bit for a star player and his fight card is strong for a star player. Also I think the Bruins made the playoffs a few times during those years and even won a Stanley Cup - I think? I'd have to check the box scores but I'll even bet the Bruins won a game or two on those nights when Chara fought. There are some true scrubs on that list and also guys that could have hurt him too. He lived, the Bruins were successful - what's the problem?

It's not really a big deal whether he did or did not fight last night. As his fights over the years have shown, he's willing to step up and take on some legit tough guys when the situation is right. What happened last night, whatever, it was one game that did not go their way. It would have been fine and probably beneficial if the Bruins, including Chara, had amped up the intensity and responded with some truculence of their own last night. I would say it would have been a good time for him to do that but I'm not going to crucify him for not doing it.

But I wish the nannying of Chara in this thread would stop. He doesn't need it. The Bruins market themselves with a certain image and style of play. The roster is built around a certain attitude and style of play. Last night, they did not really deliver. It's not the end of the world but let's see what happens in subsequent games and whether they push themselves more to execute on that part of their identity. I don't like this have-it-both-ways talk. Celebrate when they are aggressive and dominate but downplay it when they are on the receiving end.

Lastly, it just would have been nice for somebody to respond on Thornton's behalf as he has done countless times for many of them. It would be interesting to compare the discussion following this incident with the discussion in Buffalo that followed the Lucic-Miller incident. Because I'll bet there are a lot of similarities.

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02-01-2013, 05:57 PM
  #283
Colt.45Orr
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What's so complicated with all of this. If he wasn't injured we wouldn't have gotten out of the GDT...
I don't understand this reasoning.
If Miller wasn't injured by the Lucic hit than nobody would remember it either.


If Thornton had held his own (ready for round 2 or even 3) then Lucic or Chara would have known that he wasn't next in line to fight if he went over the line.

If their enforcer knocks out our enforcer then there is nobody (other than Chara or Lucic) to answer the challenge. We built a team identity based on not backing down. Chara had the worst game I have seen from him in years and years. I'd like to think he wasn't distracted, but.... I dunno man, something was off with him...

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Old
02-01-2013, 06:02 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Colt.45Orr View Post
I've appreciated some of you long-time Thornton fans coming on here and reminding how I am not supporting him and just can't wait to replace/bury the guy: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...508&highlight=
Hope you don't mean me. I just take issue w/ people who don't give Thorts the credit he deserves above and beyond fighting. He's one of the guys who began to turn it around for us, including in the room.

Now knowing how hurt he is. I don't have a problem w/ someone else coming in, even giving him an extended rest. Especially b/c I don't want Looch or Chara filling that role.

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02-01-2013, 06:07 PM
  #285
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Most of the responses on the last 2 pages are pretty good.

Chara was off that night. I think he would have liked to have stuck up for his teammate. but we can't make the trade of Chara for Scott. If we do and that is a storyline whenever we play Buffalo they've already won and are in our heads just because they signed a scrub who can't play.

Thornton lost. And lost bad. And it sucks b/c he was trending upwards and I would say after beating Rupp was considered a top 5 fighter.

Now...his career and roster spot are both in question. (He'll probably be fine but his play is slipping b/c of age and we do not need to engage in staged fights, if we get into emotional bouts that is one thing but we need to avoid staged goon fights Lucic and Chara are too valuable and both are our best fighters.)

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Old
02-01-2013, 06:16 PM
  #286
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Great article http://www.csnne.com/hockey-boston-b...31&feedID=3352

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02-01-2013, 06:40 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by mtchbx View Post
Sounds like a Bruins fan with a major case of butt hurt. Good Lord. Sabres destroyed us in all facets last night. After being Bostons biatch all year last year they deserve to gloat after that.

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Old
02-01-2013, 06:43 PM
  #288
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharaTriedToEatMe View Post
Most of the responses on the last 2 pages are pretty good.

Chara was off that night. I think he would have liked to have stuck up for his teammate. but we can't make the trade of Chara for Scott. If we do and that is a storyline whenever we play Buffalo they've already won and are in our heads just because they signed a scrub who can't play.

Thornton lost. And lost bad. And it sucks b/c he was trending upwards and I would say after beating Rupp was considered a top 5 fighter.

Now...his career and roster spot are both in question. (He'll probably be fine but his play is slipping b/c of age and we do not need to engage in staged fights, if we get into emotional bouts that is one thing but we need to avoid staged goon fights Lucic and Chara are too valuable and both are our best fighters.)
How come nobody complains when Chara beats up Harrison or Regher but when it comes to somebody that can go toe to toe with him its the "we cant afford to lose him" excuse.

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02-01-2013, 06:46 PM
  #289
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That's exactly what Thorts was doing, ya banana. Protecting his players. Thorts just didn't tie up his right hand like he usually does.

Scott is huge. Any big man can hit. But Orr has a gift. Crazy reach for his size, and bone breaking power. Orr catches you, you're going to sleep. Actually what was impressive a/b Lucic taking his shots and staying vertical. Something even Scott couldn't do.
My point was who's got Thornton's back when things go wrong. I love Thornton but he was badly out matched and at least as a team we should have addressed it within the rules or otherwise. I have a ton of respect for Colton Orr as well but I doubt he gets too many more wins against Scott. Too much size and reach.

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02-01-2013, 06:49 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Fierce1 View Post
My point was who's got Thornton's back when things go wrong. I love Thornton but he was badly out matched and at least as a team we should have addressed it within the rules or otherwise. I have a ton of respect for Colton Orr as well but I doubt he gets too many more wins against Scott. Too much size and reach.
If Scott beat down Lucic or Chara like that do you have any doubt Thornton would have wanted to take round 2? Didn't think so.

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02-01-2013, 06:52 PM
  #291
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I don't agree at all with the angle that dude is trying to sell.

The Sabres were poor last year and many, including the players and organization, attributed some of the funk to how they responded to situations such as Lucic-Miller. So they went out and tried to do something about it. How it pans out remains to be seen. But they made adjustments based on widely noted problems - what else were they supposed to do?

Regarding Steve Ott, yeah he's a dirtbag, but he's not a slug. Again, whether it's a net positive or negative to deal Roy for him is TBD. But Ott is a former 1st round draft pick and has scored 19 and 22 goals in a season. I'm not overstating his skill but if he plays with the edge and toughness they need, finds some discipline, and chips in some respectable offense, that's basically what they need given the overall composition of that team.

It's not just Boston the Sabres have to worry about. The Senators have some size and toughness. Rangers, Flyers too. All the Sabres did was revisit the makeup of their team so it is not skewed a certain way.

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02-01-2013, 06:58 PM
  #292
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How come nobody complains when Chara beats up Harrison or Regher but when it comes to somebody that can go toe to toe with him its the "we cant afford to lose him" excuse.
Lou, fans can debate all we want. I'll just go with how Chara approaches it. He has shown a willingness to drop the gloves and with just about anybody. He's smart about how much he does it, but he shows little reluctance to incorporate that into his game. That trumps fans arguing about whether he should or shouldn't. He seems to have no problem with it, why should we. Besides, Chara just applies some Greco Roman ninja stuff and wrestles the guy down. It's not like he's trading shots very often.


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Old
02-01-2013, 07:04 PM
  #293
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Haggs uses a pen name now ?

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02-01-2013, 07:18 PM
  #294
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http://www.csnne.com/pages/bruinsvid...m9wVZEGM0iz9Cc

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02-01-2013, 07:35 PM
  #295
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That and get well soon Shawn

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Old
02-01-2013, 07:51 PM
  #296
Neely08
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The right time and place will come along, Colt.

Not worried a/b it.

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02-01-2013, 08:02 PM
  #297
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Fantastic article...

http://www.csnne.com/hockey-boston-b...49&feedID=3352

Haggs haters of course will dismiss it , but agree or not, a good read.

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Old
02-01-2013, 08:06 PM
  #298
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Good Lord, did they pick the two worst responses in Campbell and MacDermid?

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Old
02-01-2013, 08:11 PM
  #299
Kate08
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Originally Posted by WhamBamCam8 View Post
Fantastic article...

http://www.csnne.com/hockey-boston-b...49&feedID=3352

Haggs haters of course will dismiss it , but agree or not, a good read.
Great read, and good point of view.

The Bruins got the tables turned on them a little bit last night. I hope it reminded them how much it sucks to be the nail instead of the hammer, and get back to playing their brand of hockey.

I don't mean just rough and tumble, I mean engaged and invested. There were points last night that they looked just flat out uninspired and disinterested. When they are moving and playing tough, that's when they're at their best.

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02-01-2013, 08:13 PM
  #300
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Great read, and good point of view.

The Bruins got the tables turned on them a little bit last night. I hope it reminded them how much it sucks to be the nail instead of the hammer, and get back to playing their brand of hockey.

I don't mean just rough and tumble, I mean engaged and invested. There were points last night that they looked just flat out uninspired and disinterested. When they are moving and playing tough, that's when they're at their best.
Excellent post...I agree... You will see a more invested squad on Saturday...no doubt.

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