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Subban is 1 of 15 defencemen in the entire NHL to:
Post over 32 points
Play over 24 minutes per game
Give over 100 hits
Make over 100 blocked shots
Play in every situation (PK, PP, ES)
Play against the opposition's top line
Add the fact that all of the guys who played with him had a higher +\- rating when he was on the ice, the fact that he is top 5 in the league at drawing penalties, has only played 2 seasons, and is only 23 years old. Montreal fans are not "hyping/overvaluing" their player, they realize what he has already achieved AND know he is still improving. What you are seeing in this thread are typical "take our quantity for your quality" offers, or hockey ignorant people hoping to get Subban for cheap getting pissy when Habs fans point out the lack of value in the offers. I could also add that he is signed to an amazing deal. Even some hockey analysts thought he should get 5 million per season.
Subban is already a #1 defenceman and would be on multiple teams. You want him, pay. You don't, ignore the thread. Please, just don't make bull$#!t offers and get upset when they are laughed at (this was a general comment for all, not the guy I replied to).
Petry had 25 points but did everything else on your little list .. With prime PP minutes he couldve even matched the points.
Not taking a shot at Subban but he does get overrated a little around here due to his flashy personality.
DD scored 60 points last year in his first full season. He is worth more than a negative which is what you are treating him as when you include him in a deal that doesn't offer fair value for the primary player involved. As far as Subban goes, if you haven't figured out how valuable he is by now, I can do nothing to help you. I have posted in this thread what type of defenceman Subban is. I gave clear details on how good he is. You do NOT give a player like that away for Petry and a 1st. Bergevin could have made a deal with Philly for Subban and refused to do so. That seems to indicate he values him quite highly. Don't worry. Subban will play this week-end. Therrien is simply tryiong to prove he is a hard @$$ and put his stamp on the team by pushing a team concept over an individual concept. Subban will be fine, will continue to play well, and will be the great player knowledgeable hockey people have always claimed he will be.
Subban will not be traded for a decent defenceman and a 1st. We will definitely be adding DD to that stupid offer. Why are there so many fans of other teams who seem to grasp this and you don't??
So i do not get an answer to my question regarding the valu of Desharnais. He played his first full season when he was 26. I would like you or someone to give me a team who would be interested and what would they have to give up. Then we will touch on Subban for Petry and a first.
Petry had 25 points but did everything else on your little list .. With prime PP minutes he couldve even matched the points.
Not taking a shot at Subban but he does get overrated a little around here due to his flashy personality.
Overrated is an understatement. You think he was a saviour. There is no doubt he has the skillset and size to become one of the top 10 defenceman in the league. I would even go as far to say he is in the top 20 today. There is also no denying some other issues. So far i have seen the coach and other players explain in the MEDIA that this is now a team first team. Who else does that? Not exactly a vote of confidence. More like throwing him under the bus to me. How many other teams sign a top pairing defenceman ( who is in tiptop shape ) and sit him so he can know the system. Thats crap. I actually like Subban and i think when he thinks before he speaks, he will be ok. I wonder if people realize though that he led the nhl in minor penalties the past two years. Wait till he takes a really stupid one and see Therien's reaction. Some how i just think Therien is waiting for this. It's like the guy is not even gonna be given a fair chance. I hope they do but i get the feeling they don't want to even bring him into the dressing room.
DD scored 60 points last year in his first full season. He is worth more than a negative which is what you are treating him as when you include him in a deal that doesn't offer fair value for the primary player involved. As far as Subban goes, if you haven't figured out how valuable he is by now, I can do nothing to help you. I have posted in this thread what type of defenceman Subban is. I gave clear details on how good he is. You do NOT give a player like that away for Petry and a 1st. Bergevin could have made a deal with Philly for Subban and refused to do so. That seems to indicate he values him quite highly. Don't worry. Subban will play this week-end. Therrien is simply tryiong to prove he is a hard @$$ and put his stamp on the team by pushing a team concept over an individual concept. Subban will be fine, will continue to play well, and will be the great player knowledgeable hockey people have always claimed he will be.
Subban will not be traded for a decent defenceman and a 1st. We will definitely be adding DD to that stupid offer. Why are there so many fans of other teams who seem to grasp this and you don't??
the only reason why subban didn't play vs ottawa and winnipeg is because you can't introduce a player without practice and without any indications about the game plan and the new therrien system.
It is all new this season and he have to know what is the new system before he get in a game.
So i do not get an answer to my question regarding the valu of Desharnais. He played his first full season when he was 26. I would like you or someone to give me a team who would be interested and what would they have to give up. Then we will touch on Subban for Petry and a first.
It is difficult to gauge DD's value because he scored 60 points in his first full season, but that season was at age 26. DD's lack of size also goes against him. However, his value is far more than a throw in for a deal that is not enough to get Subban. DD would easily fetch a 2nd from a team in need of a small, heart and soul, point producing center. However, Montreal should not trade him for that little due to the reasons why other teams might offer that amount for him. Give DD another season where he produces at the same pace as last season and offers will increase. Right now we will not get good enough value for him. Apparently not even from Habs fans for crap's sake...
No need to touch on Subban for Petry and a 1st...especially since Oiler fans have already offered more than that! Try to remember that numbers and stats are not the only things that matter when evaluating talent. Even McGuire looks at Subban and gauges his value as double a guy like DelZotto! Subban is far better than a lot of people realize due to some of the idiocy being tossed around about his supposed character issues. My only fear is that Therrien is an idiot and will try to "show Subban who is boss" and will ruin him in Montreal. Some of the stupid crap Therrien spewed while on l'antichambre was exactly why I worried about him being our coach. Seeing him "ban" the Subban/Price victory celebration has me even more worried.
So, no need to touch on Subban for Petry and a 1st. The answer is a simple "no thanks".
So i do not get an answer to my question regarding the valu of Desharnais. He played his first full season when he was 26. I would like you or someone to give me a team who would be interested and what would they have to give up. Then we will touch on Subban for Petry and a first.
subban alone is too much for only petry and a first. why u add DD ? it is illogic
to answer ur question, we can only speculate but I personnally think that dd worth a 2nd and I prefer to keep him if we can only get a 2nd.
I'm wondering what non-oiler and Non-hab fans think about a deal where it's Subban for Petry and a first. How about some input from objective or unbiased views.
Overrated is an understatement. You think he was a saviour. There is no doubt he has the skillset and size to become one of the top 10 defenceman in the league. I would even go as far to say he is in the top 20 today. There is also no denying some other issues. So far i have seen the coach and other players explain in the MEDIA that this is now a team first team. Who else does that? Not exactly a vote of confidence. More like throwing him under the bus to me. How many other teams sign a top pairing defenceman ( who is in tiptop shape ) and sit him so he can know the system. Thats crap. I actually like Subban and i think when he thinks before he speaks, he will be ok. I wonder if people realize though that he led the nhl in minor penalties the past two years. Wait till he takes a really stupid one and see Therien's reaction. Some how i just think Therien is waiting for this. It's like the guy is not even gonna be given a fair chance. I hope they do but i get the feeling they don't want to even bring him into the dressing room.
Even you state he is a top 20 defenceman with top 10 potential. That is pretty much what I have said.
Nice to see you recognize his skill and ability. As such, he is not being overrated at all since he has not been called better than that by anyone here that I noticed.
Glad to see I am not the only one who sees Therrien potentially being as big an imbecile with Subban as Tremblay was with Roy. I pray Bergevin is smarter in that regards. Therrien is the biggest potential threat to Subban's development than anything Subban could do.
Even you state he is a top 20 defenceman with top 10 potential. That is pretty much what I have said.
Nice to see you recognize his skill and ability. As such, he is not being overrated at all since he has not been called better than that by anyone here that I noticed.
Glad to see I am not the only one who sees Therrien potentially being as big an imbecile with Subban as Tremblay was with Roy. I pray Bergevin is smarter in that regards. Therrien is the biggest potential threat to Subban's development than anything Subban could do.
I am concerned about that a lot. I just get the feeling that Therien even has his mind made up about him. I never knew that Therien squashed Subban and Price's victory handshake. I never really liked it at first but seeing how many nfl ers do it I didn't see a problem with it. Price couldn't be to happy about that. In fairness to Subban , when your playing 24 minutes a nite against the other teams best, your bound to get a tripping or holding penalty every second nite. Does anyone else have the feeling that it is only a matter of time before there is a blow-up in the media because of a perceived stupid penalty. I just think that if he's not gonna get a fair chance, were better off to get someone like Couturier for him and move on.
In this other offer from the Oilers where we were getting Petry and a first, what else were we getting? Oh no. Let me guess, Gagner or the little guy who takes the penalty shots.
In this other offer from the Oilers where we were getting Petry and a first, what else were we getting? Oh no. Let me guess, Gagner or the little guy who takes the penalty shots.
This Subban thing aside (he just signed a great contract...why does this thread even exist?), I find it amusing that Gagner is such a joke around here. The kid would be tied for the lead in scoring on the Habs. But apparently he's such a piece of trash, people are revolted when he's brought up in any trade proposal. You'd think he had leprosy or something. I'm sure it's mostly Oil fans fault for bring him up all the time, but that doesn't mean you should ignore his value. Judge him for what he is...not because you're tired of hearing his name. That's just dumb...
This Subban thing aside (he just signed a great contract...why does this thread even exist?), I find it amusing that Gagner is such a joke around here. The kid would be tied for the lead in scoring on the Habs. But apparently he's such a piece of trash, people are revolted when he's brought up in any trade proposal. You'd think he had leprosy or something. I'm sure it's mostly Oil fans fault for bring him up all the time, but that doesn't mean you should ignore his value. Judge him for what he is...not because you're tired of hearing his name. That's just dumb...
it's not that he's a joke - it's that he'd be a bottom 6 forward on the Habs. i doubt he would even see much time on the PP.
it's not that he's a joke - it's that he'd be a bottom 6 forward on the Habs. i doubt he would even see much time on the PP.
we don't have room for a player like him.
That I completely understand. Just people love to laugh when his name is mentioned...like he's garbage. I don't think he makes sense on the Habs either. Just venting I guess.
That I completely understand. Just people love to laugh when his name is mentioned...like he's garbage. I don't think he makes sense on the Habs either. Just venting I guess.
Your right to . My bad . Just joking. my apoligies.
