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We're not really the "youngest" team

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Old
02-01-2013, 05:46 PM
  #1
Hero
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We're not really the "youngest" team

I hear this thrown around a lot, that the leafs are the first/second youngest team in the league, and that's a bit inaccurate imo.

Average age does not tell the whole story, it's actually a fairly skewed stat.

For example

Team A
18 yr old - 18 yr old - 18 yr old - 1st Line 22 mins/night
18 yr old - 18 yr old - 18 yr old - 2nd Line 18 mins/night
35 yr old - 35 yr old - 35 yr old - 3rd Line 7 mins/night
35 yr old - 35 yr old - 35 yr old - 4th Line 3 mins/night

18 yr old - 18 yr old - 1st pair 30 mins/night
35 yr old - 35 yr old - 2nd pair 15 mins/night
35 yr old - 35 yr old - 3rd pair 5 mins/night

18 yr old - 70 starts
35 yr old - 12 stars

Team B
35 yr old - 35 yr old - 35 yr old - 1st Line 22 mins/night
35 yr old - 35 yr old - 35 yr old - 2nd Line 18 mins/night
18 yr old - 18 yr old - 18 yr old - 3rd Line 7 mins/night
18 yr old - 18 yr old - 18 yr old - 4th Line 3 mins/night

35 yr old - 35 yr old - 1st pair 30 mins/night
18 yr old - 18 yr old - 2nd pair 15 mins/night
18 yr old - 18 yr old - 3rd pair 5 mins/night

35 yr old - 70 starts
18 yr old - 12 stars

The avg age of Team B is lower than Team A. But when you look at the roster and how much each piece plays, you see that actually Team A is an extremely exaggerated young team that looks like it's getting better, and Team B is a very old team that looks like it's about to fall apart.

Average age is not a good indicator of "team age" because it isn't weight, based on the players value to the team.

Going with our current roster (When healthy)

Lupul - Bozak - Kessel
Kulemin - Grabovski - MacArthur
JVR - Kadri - Frattin
Orr - McClement - Komarov

Kostak - Phaneuf
Liles - Franson/Komisarek
Gardiner - Gunnarsson

Reimer
Scrivens

29 - 26 - 25
26 - 29 - 27
23 - 22 - 25
30 - 29 - 26

27 - 27
32 - 25/31
22 - 26

24
26

This isn't a "young" team, it's a team that actually, as sad as this may or may not be, in it's prime.
It's not like Colorado where you're waiting for Landeskog/Duchene to develop, Edmonton where you're seeing Schultz/Nuge/Yakupov/Hall/Eberle develop, or Minny etc...

For every team each year their young guys get better till they hit their prime, then their prime players get worse till they retire. The leafs have just as many players who will be improving each year as those who will be declining.

This isn't a bash leafs, leafs suck etc thread. Just saying we aren't a young team full of developing kids. We're a team of players who are (for the most part) in the younger parts of their prime, with a few young guys who will improve (Kadri/Gardiner) with a few older guys who are moving into their 30's (Grabo, Liles, Komi), our avg age may be low, but are weighted avg age, isn't as low.

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02-01-2013, 06:02 PM
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johnny_rudeboy
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While I totally agree with you and I am pretty tired about hearing "we are the youngest, 2nd youngest, 3rd youngest" crap that is used as an excuse for our poor results and as if the current roster would grow in to be more then it already is. When it fact it won't seeing as the talent is not there.

But both your teams in the example above really sucks only showing up for 50 minutes per night.

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02-01-2013, 06:02 PM
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Yeah its weighted here.http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_AverageAge.php The leafs are 2nd youngest normal,or 3rd youngest weighted. Unless you want to go team by team by minutes played every single game, you have to accept this chart bro.


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02-01-2013, 06:08 PM
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Our goalies are young too.

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02-01-2013, 06:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafspring View Post
Yeah its weighted here.http://www.quanthockey.com/TS/TS_AverageAge.php The leafs are 2nd youngest normal,or 3rd youngest weighted. Unless you want to go team by team by minutes played every single game, you have to except this chart bro.
That last part though in the opening post, our team age's core is spread out, every year our young guys get better is also a year our older guys are getting weaker.

We're not a team that's steadily going to get better with time. Cause for each year of Kadri/Gardiner development it's a year less of Grabo/Kulie/Mac/Phaneuf in prime and a year more of Komi/Liles declining.

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02-01-2013, 06:14 PM
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This just in: averages are just averages.

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02-01-2013, 06:17 PM
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Originally Posted by hero View Post
That last part though in the opening post, our team age's core is spread out, every year our young guys get better is also a year our older guys are getting weaker.

We're not a team that's steadily going to get better with time. Cause for each year of Kadri/Gardiner development it's a year less of Grabo/Kulie/Mac/Phaneuf in prime and a year more of Komi/Liles declining.
The age is fluid every shift of every game,but the monumental task of collecting all that data is not what your examples could every be percieved to represent. It is a potential happening,but no consistancy with it.

Young come young go,and they have different ways for the charts to be calculated. It would be a monumental task compiling them stats,shift in shift out. You agree?

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02-01-2013, 06:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmart21 View Post
This just in: averages are just averages.
I think that is the point the OP is trying to make. A low average does not necessary mean the team is young, it just lack old players (30+). The youngsters on our roster is Kadri (22) and JVR (23), the rest of them except our goalies are in their prime or just entering it.

Our team will probably look a lot different next year with Rielly, Gardiner playing full time, Blacker, Biggs, Ashton and some other NHL ready youngsters getting chances with the Leafs.

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02-01-2013, 06:24 PM
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Age average would give a formula of how many games played per year? just a example of the impossible to answer. Young doesn't mean expierenced, or does it. Ryan Hamilton is neither young or expierenced,Kostka the same.

Young team tells nothing in itself. It is more than age to what is a young team.

EG: Are they a good or bad "young team". its nonsense your right.

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02-01-2013, 06:37 PM
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Don't really give too much looks into these age stats.

Our average age is about a year off the whole league's average.

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02-01-2013, 06:37 PM
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a a ron
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30 is the new 20

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02-01-2013, 06:37 PM
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These stats are always used to create team average age. Should it be changed now because we are young?

When we were an old team in the Quinn years, people loved to point out how old we were.

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02-01-2013, 06:40 PM
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The bottom line is we are a young team

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02-01-2013, 06:41 PM
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Our top 9 had an average age of 25 last night. Im not sure how you think that is not a young team?

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02-01-2013, 06:44 PM
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Originally Posted by conway902 View Post
Our top 9 had an average age of 25 last night. Im not sure how you think that is not a young team?
I think of 7 years into your career, isn't young in the way it's being used. a 25 year old isn't a young improving player, that's a player who has hit his prime and is maintaining his level of play or declining.


Kopita, M. Staal, Crosby, Price, Ryan, Setoguchi, J. Johnson are all 25.

They're not young developing players, they're players who've hit their prime and will play at the same level for awhile before they begin to decline.

Also, with our club, we're not 25 years old, the age is really distributed, and won't have our team's core in it's prime at once.

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02-01-2013, 06:49 PM
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hero even gets annoyed if the Leafs are called "young". You want nothing that can be spun as a positive.

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02-01-2013, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
hero even gets annoyed if the Leafs are called "young". You want nothing that can be spun as a positive.
That is what it is all about isnt it? Give it a positive spin.

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02-01-2013, 06:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hero View Post
I think of 7 years into your career, isn't young in the way it's being used. a 25 year old isn't a young improving player, that's a player who has hit his prime and is maintaining his level of play or declining.


Kopita, M. Staal, Crosby, Price, Ryan, Setoguchi, J. Johnson are all 25.

They're not young developing players, they're players who've hit their prime and will play at the same level for awhile before they begin to decline.

Also, with our club, we're not 25 years old, the age is really distributed, and won't have our team's core in it's prime at once.
Have you watched the last few games??? Because I dont think a Guy like Matt Frattin has peaked. lupul and Grabo would also like to say hello.

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02-01-2013, 06:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hero View Post
That last part though in the opening post, our team age's core is spread out, every year our young guys get better is also a year our older guys are getting weaker.

We're not a team that's steadily going to get better with time. Cause for each year of Kadri/Gardiner development it's a year less of Grabo/Kulie/Mac/Phaneuf in prime and a year more of Komi/Liles declining.
Who cares about guys like Komisarek, Liles, MacArthur, etc? If you actually look at the core pieces of the team, they are all in their early to mid twenties:

Kessel
Lupul (oldest core piece, still has lots to give)
Kulemin
Kadri
Frattin
Gardiner
Phaneuf
Rielly (not even 20 yet)

This will be the main group moving forward. The Leafs are nowhere close to being a contender, and are counting on these players growing and getting better each year. Sure, we've probably seen the best out of guys like Phaneuf, Lupul and Kulemin, but as long as they're able to keep their play steady for the next five years they are still effective pieces.

Then add prospects like Finn, Percy, Biggs, Ashton, Colborne and Leivo into the mix who should have some kind of impact moving forward, the team should continue to be young for a few years.

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02-01-2013, 07:00 PM
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Bomber0104
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Originally Posted by johnny_rudeboy View Post
That is what it is all about isnt it? Give it a positive spin.
From Wikipedia:

In public relations, spin is a form of propaganda, achieved through providing an interpretation of an event or campaign to persuade public opinion in favor or against a certain organization or public figure. While traditional public relations may also rely on creative presentation of the facts, "spin" often, though not always, implies disingenuous, deceptive and/or highly manipulative tactics.

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02-01-2013, 07:03 PM
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johnny_rudeboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drew311 View Post
This will be the main group moving forward. The Leafs are nowhere close to being a contender, and are counting on these players growing and getting better each year. Sure, we've probably seen the best out of guys like Phaneuf, Lupul and Kulemin, but as long as they're able to keep their play steady for the next five years they are still effective pieces.

Then add prospects like Finn, Percy, Biggs, Ashton, Colborne and Leivo into the mix who should have some kind of impact moving forward, the team should continue to be young for a few years.
You just described the situation for almost every other NHL franchise.

Can we please stop saying we are the youngest team in the NHL and use it as an excuse for not being competitive or as a way to try and feel good about the teams future?

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02-01-2013, 07:04 PM
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iPunch
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
From Wikipedia:

In public relations, spin is a form of propaganda, achieved through providing an interpretation of an event or campaign to persuade public opinion in favor or against a certain organization or public figure. While traditional public relations may also rely on creative presentation of the facts, "spin" often, though not always, implies disingenuous, deceptive and/or highly manipulative tactics.
If we're going to trot out definitions, then by definition you aren't even a fan.


Last edited by iPunch: 02-01-2013 at 07:13 PM.
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02-01-2013, 07:05 PM
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Bomber0104
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Originally Posted by iPunch View Post
If we're going to trot out definitions, then by definition you aren't even a fan.
Show me this definition.

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02-01-2013, 07:11 PM
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iPunch
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Show me this definition.
http://www.thefreedictionary.com/fanatic

Quote:
fa·nat·ic (f-ntk)
n.
A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause.
adj.
Fanatical.

fanatic [fəˈnætɪk]
n
1. a person whose enthusiasm or zeal for something is extreme or beyond normal limits
2. Informal a person devoted to a particular hobby or pastime; fan a jazz fanatic

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02-01-2013, 07:17 PM
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Bomber0104
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I definitely qualify as a fan based on this definition. I've always watched the Leafs far more than a normal person for years and years and years. Now the past 8 years have been particularly awful but I am still sticking with it because I know there's not a worse GM/combo out there than Brian Burke/Wilson and we can only improve with that in mind.

There's things to be happy with but more to be unhappy with but that is in the past (Burke/Wilson's fault) and I am very happy we have a more patient GM at the helm right now.

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