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Boston Bruins v. Buffalo Sabres - 1/31/13 - Part III

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Old
02-01-2013, 04:05 PM
  #126
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People keep saying Lucic has to answer for last season. He already answered when they sent out Gaustad. It's not his fault they didn't have anyone better at that time.

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02-01-2013, 04:10 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by CamFan81 View Post
I LOVE THAT THIS IS THEIR CUP.

If you travel to the Marchand thread, the Hamilton thread, the Thornton thread, jack Edwards threads its all filled with fan bases that hate the bruins.

Do you know why they hate the bruins? Because the bruins at one point or another have completely embarrassed them. Perhaps with an epic trade, or a playoff upset, or our power forward destroying their "tough guy" Dman's career, or outlasting them in the cup finals.

They all have an axe to grind and I for one ABSOLUTELY love their hate. We earned it, rejoice, and hope that there is plenty more "earning" going on.

When a bruins thread goes up and the first 5-6 responses are bitter fans who have been seething at the opportunity to be happy at the bruins expense for years I can't help but chuckle at their "release".

Well said


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02-01-2013, 04:11 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by patty59 View Post
Who are these other teams? Go look at their production from last season and tell me there's a huge difference there.
Good call ... did a quick run through of hockeydb ... top 6 F production for "Elite" teams last season.

Pitt = 408
Phi = 361
Bos = 351
Chi = 349
Det = 346
SJ = 339
Van = 331
NYR = 326
LA = 271

All teams who I'd presume would be judged to have a stronger "Top 6", and more "Elite talent", than the B's.

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02-01-2013, 05:13 PM
  #129
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People keep saying Lucic has to answer for last season. He already answered when they sent out Gaustad. It's not his fault they didn't have anyone better at that time.
Exactly. And being honest-the last thing I want Lucic to do is go out and fight a scrub like Scott. Not because I think he is scared (fear wise Lucic would probably do it) but because the trade off and risk isn't worth it (this team can survive without Thornton-he would be missed but he isn't irreplaceable, but they will be in trouble if they lose Lucic who isn't replaceable).

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02-01-2013, 05:19 PM
  #130
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Pretty hard to take, especially when you hear PC talking about how their cap situation is pretty good right now. Hopefully they do something at the deadline, but I'm not counting on it.
i'd count on it, personally. after last year's K with pouliot, they bring in another questionable option (even more than benny) in bourque along with guys like caron and sauve as other possibilities. chia said recently if things don't work out, they'll make a deal (ryder?). i don't pay too much attention to cap space, but i believe there's enough to bring in a difference maker. and since i don't believe bourque can be a 3rd line LW on a cup team, IMO, they'll upgrade (i also expect them to bring in a 5-6-7 type Dman, hopefully better than greg zanon).

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02-01-2013, 05:21 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by DoubleAAAA View Post
Good call ... did a quick run through of hockeydb ... top 6 F production for "Elite" teams last season.

Pitt = 408
Phi = 361
Bos = 351
Chi = 349
Det = 346
SJ = 339
Van = 331
NYR = 326
LA = 271

All teams who I'd presume would be judged to have a stronger "Top 6", and more "Elite talent", than the B's.
Thanks, good stuff.

File under "Grass, Greener."

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02-01-2013, 05:53 PM
  #132
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Yikes... exaggerate much? Certainly can't put 7 goals scored (of which he was on the ice for only 3 of them) all on Z, and I think last night is the first game Chara's looked out of character. Prior to last night he'd been a force at both ends of the ice in every game -- scoring, hitting, and playing excellent D in his own end.

He sucked last night for sure, but I don't agree with your overall sentiment at all.
Perhaps seeing an opponent that's as big as he is pound Thornton into the ice made Chara a little tenative.

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02-01-2013, 06:18 PM
  #133
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
Perhaps seeing an opponent that's as big as he is pound Thornton into the ice made Chara a little tenative.
Oh no he dit int.

You need to be around more often!

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02-01-2013, 06:22 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
Perhaps seeing an opponent that's as big as he is pound Thornton into the ice made Chara a little tenative.
Scott had a total of 4:28 TOI, and I doubt he was on the ice with Chara more than 30 seconds.

Vanek skating around like a man possessed probably had more to do with it. He appears to be one of the very few top NHL forwards who flourishes against Chara.

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02-01-2013, 06:36 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by DoubleAAAA View Post
Good call ... did a quick run through of hockeydb ... top 6 F production for "Elite" teams last season.

Pitt = 408
Phi = 361
Bos = 351
Chi = 349
Det = 346
SJ = 339
Van = 331
NYR = 326
LA = 271

All teams who I'd presume would be judged to have a stronger "Top 6", and more "Elite talent", than the B's.
Those numbers are a bit skewed, IMO. The Rangers added Nash this year. Crosby barely played for the Pens last year. The Kings added multiple pieces at the deadline so they haven't had guys like Carter and Richards for a full year yet.

Just look at it this way:
Rangers - Gaborik has 3 40 goal seasons and 7 30 plus goal seasons. Nash has 2 40 goal seasons and 7 30 goal seasons. Richard has had multiple 90 point seasons. Callahan is basically on par with what the Bruins have up front.

The Penguins have Malkin and Crosby (do I really need to list this out for you?), and even Neal has a 40 goal season.

The Blackhawks have Toews, Kane, Hossa, and Sharp, FFS.

The Wings have Zetterberg and Datsyuk.

Do I really need to list this all out for you? If you can't even see that other teams have just as much depth in their top 6, if not even more high end scoring, then I don't think this is worthwhile.

At least show a little credibility and be honest with yourself. The top end Bruins players aren't nearly as elite as the players on teams you mentioned, for the most part. It doesn't mean they can't win, or won't win, it just means that they need all 4 lines to play well in order to do so. One little injury and they couldn't beat a team that barely made the playoffs last year, who were so inept in goal that they threw a rookie in net.

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02-01-2013, 06:37 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Artemis View Post
Thanks, good stuff.

File under "Grass, Greener."

See: Sand, head buried in

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02-01-2013, 06:39 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Dennis Bonvie View Post
Perhaps seeing an opponent that's as big as he is pound Thornton into the ice made Chara a little tenative.
I'm sure Chara wanted to fight him, but seeing as how he was out of position all night, he probably just missed him...

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02-01-2013, 06:39 PM
  #138
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i also expect them to bring in a 5-6-7 type Dman, hopefully better than greg zanon
They seemed to have picked up a pretty good 7th in Johnson. The games he has played in I thought he looked pretty good for a 7th-good enough that if anyone other than Chara of Seids and to some degree Boychuk goes down, I would be okay with Johnson stepping in).

I think Johnson is probably the best 7th d-man the team has had for a while.

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02-01-2013, 06:40 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by neelynugs View Post
i'd count on it, personally. after last year's K with pouliot, they bring in another questionable option (even more than benny) in bourque along with guys like caron and sauve as other possibilities. chia said recently if things don't work out, they'll make a deal (ryder?). i don't pay too much attention to cap space, but i believe there's enough to bring in a difference maker. and since i don't believe bourque can be a 3rd line LW on a cup team, IMO, they'll upgrade (i also expect them to bring in a 5-6-7 type Dman, hopefully better than greg zanon).
I'd love to see it because the depth they constantly preach about is dangerously thin...

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02-01-2013, 06:44 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
See: Sand, head buried in
Oh, stop. It's getting tiresome. The Bruins are one of the elite teams in the NHL if you ask any neutral observer. And they'd undoubtedly laugh incredulously if you argued they're not.

And if you want to add to your list of "team X didn't have player Y," the Bruins were without Nathan Horton for most of the last season.

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02-01-2013, 06:44 PM
  #141
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Cam Jannsens would be a nice temp fix. He can't score but at least he can take care of Scott and then Lucic can run over Miller again.

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02-01-2013, 06:48 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by CamFan81 View Post
I LOVE THAT THIS IS THEIR CUP.

If you travel to the Marchand thread, the Hamilton thread, the Thornton thread, jack Edwards threads its all filled with fan bases that hate the bruins.

Do you know why they hate the bruins? Because the bruins at one point or another have completely embarrassed them. Perhaps with an epic trade, or a playoff upset, or our power forward destroying their "tough guy" Dman's career, or outlasting them in the cup finals.

They all have an axe to grind and I for one ABSOLUTELY love their hate. We earned it, rejoice, and hope that there is plenty more "earning" going on.

When a bruins thread goes up and the first 5-6 responses are bitter fans who have been seething at the opportunity to be happy at the bruins expense for years I can't help but chuckle at their "release".

I'm going to print this out and hang it in my cube I love it so much

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02-01-2013, 06:58 PM
  #143
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
I'm sure Chara wanted to fight him, but seeing as how he was out of position all night, he probably just missed him...

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02-01-2013, 06:59 PM
  #144
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Lindy Ruff is on pace to win 0 Stanley Cups in his life.

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02-01-2013, 07:05 PM
  #145
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Those numbers are a bit skewed, IMO. The Rangers added Nash this year. Crosby barely played for the Pens last year. The Kings added multiple pieces at the deadline so they haven't had guys like Carter and Richards for a full year yet.

Just look at it this way:
Rangers - Gaborik has 3 40 goal seasons and 7 30 plus goal seasons. Nash has 2 40 goal seasons and 7 30 goal seasons. Richard has had multiple 90 point seasons. Callahan is basically on par with what the Bruins have up front.

The Penguins have Malkin and Crosby (do I really need to list this out for you?), and even Neal has a 40 goal season.

The Blackhawks have Toews, Kane, Hossa, and Sharp, FFS.

The Wings have Zetterberg and Datsyuk.

Do I really need to list this all out for you? If you can't even see that other teams have just as much depth in their top 6, if not even more high end scoring, then I don't think this is worthwhile.

At least show a little credibility and be honest with yourself. The top end Bruins players aren't nearly as elite as the players on teams you mentioned, for the most part. It doesn't mean they can't win, or won't win, it just means that they need all 4 lines to play well in order to do so. One little injury and they couldn't beat a team that barely made the playoffs last year, who were so inept in goal that they threw a rookie in net.
wow.

By all means, disregard anything that doesn't support your argument.

You stated that the B's don't have the talent in their top 6 to compare with the teams with "elite" top 6 players. I merely posted the respective production that proves that statement wrong. By all means if you have anything to support your argument besides naming names and spewing a self important diatribe then have at it.

I'm not arguing that we have a Malkin, Crosby, Gaborik etc. But we have 6 players that produce as much or more combined than almost all of the teams those elite players play on.

Seriously ... I'm all for a legitimate debate, but as of yet you don't have a single shred of support for your claim.

Edit: Oh and for the record, replacing Nash for the 6th top producing forward on NYR still puts their production below the B's. Certainly Crosby would have boosted Pittsburgh who are already ahead of the B's. LA did have Richards for the full year, and Carter might have swung their number what, 25 points? Still well below the B's. The Hawks and Wings sure do have all those players .... and they produced less than the B's top 6.

Oh and the B's numbers include Peverley at 57 games and exclude Horton since he only played 47 and finished outside the top 6 production.


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Old
02-01-2013, 07:17 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by LSCII View Post
Those numbers are a bit skewed, IMO. The Rangers added Nash this year. Crosby barely played for the Pens last year. The Kings added multiple pieces at the deadline so they haven't had guys like Carter and Richards for a full year yet.

Just look at it this way:
Rangers - Gaborik has 3 40 goal seasons and 7 30 plus goal seasons. Nash has 2 40 goal seasons and 7 30 goal seasons. Richard has had multiple 90 point seasons. Callahan is basically on par with what the Bruins have up front.

The Penguins have Malkin and Crosby (do I really need to list this out for you?), and even Neal has a 40 goal season.

The Blackhawks have Toews, Kane, Hossa, and Sharp, FFS.

The Wings have Zetterberg and Datsyuk.

Do I really need to list this all out for you? If you can't even see that other teams have just as much depth in their top 6, if not even more high end scoring, then I don't think this is worthwhile.

At least show a little credibility and be honest with yourself. The top end Bruins players aren't nearly as elite as the players on teams you mentioned, for the most part. It doesn't mean they can't win, or won't win, it just means that they need all 4 lines to play well in order to do so. One little injury and they couldn't beat a team that barely made the playoffs last year, who were so inept in goal that they threw a rookie in net.
I see what you're saying here, dude... And I don't actually disagree with you.

I just wonder if there's a time in which it is appropriate to stop arguing against the numbers. The Bruins top-6 can play with the majority of the bigs in the league. I'd say "other than Pittsburgh" which is a trait we share with 28 other teams.

You mention names and it doesn't seem like it. I think you and I may be wrong, though.

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02-01-2013, 07:30 PM
  #147
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I see what you're saying here, dude... And I don't actually disagree with you.

I just wonder if there's a time in which it is appropriate to stop arguing against the numbers. The Bruins top-6 can play with the majority of the bigs in the league. I'd say "other than Pittsburgh" which is a trait we share with 28 other teams.

You mention names and it doesn't seem like it. I think you and I may be wrong, though.
See, that's the irony. People assume I'm down on the team. Couldn't be further from the truth. I'm just saying that for the Bruins, the depth is what makes them elite, rather than having elite players. When they start losing guys on any line, it causes problems. The same can be said for every team of course, but the margin for error when you have a game breaker is greater. When you don't have a truly elite scorer and you lose depth, it just gets that much harder to win.

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02-01-2013, 07:31 PM
  #148
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Lindy Ruff is on pace to win 0 Stanley Cups in his life.


This will always be my lasting image of the Sabres, and Ruff. Ruff of all people can certainly sympathize w/ Thornton. As most times I remember Ruff dropping them, he ended up ass up on the ice and bleeding. Then again, Neely wasn't 6'8" and 250. Nor was Milbury.

Note in the beginning MaGuire is on Miller practically before the puck drops. Classy.

The best part of this was; Buffalo had tied the series, and the game was over before this broke out. What ever momentum Buffalo had gained, it waved bye bye after this. Then there was Lindey Ruff on the local sports cast that night complaining a/b Neely in the locker room. His mouth reduced to a bloody hole under his nose, as apparently the shot he ate from Neely fully evacuated all of his chicklets. Mushmouth said, or attempted to say something like...

"Mam Meely ammacked me for mo meason! I idn't bo amything mo him!".

I'd kill for someone to put that on youtube. As well as Miller and Maguire fighting in the hallway. Can't forget Shoebottom either.

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02-01-2013, 07:32 PM
  #149
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See, that's the irony. People assume I'm down on the team. Couldn't be further from the truth. I'm just saying that for the Bruins, the depth is what makes them elite, rather than having elite players. When they start losing guys on any line, it causes problems. The same can be said for every team of course, but the margin for error when you have a game breaker is greater. When you don't have a truly elite scorer and you lose depth, it just gets that much harder to win.
So what happens when the "elite" teams lose their game breaker?

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02-01-2013, 07:34 PM
  #150
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wow.

By all means, disregard anything that doesn't support your argument.

You stated that the B's don't have the talent in their top 6 to compare with the teams with "elite" top 6 players. I merely posted the respective production that proves that statement wrong. By all means if you have anything to support your argument besides naming names and spewing a self important diatribe then have at it.

I'm not arguing that we have a Malkin, Crosby, Gaborik etc. But we have 6 players that produce as much or more combined than almost all of the teams those elite players play on.

Seriously ... I'm all for a legitimate debate, but as of yet you don't have a single shred of support for your claim.

Edit: Oh and for the record, replacing Nash for the 6th top producing forward on NYR still puts their production below the B's. Certainly Crosby would have boosted Pittsburgh who are already ahead of the B's. LA did have Richards for the full year, and Carter might have swung their number what, 25 points? Still well below the B's. The Hawks and Wings sure do have all those players .... and they produced less than the B's top 6.

Oh and the B's numbers include Peverley at 57 games and exclude Horton since he only played 47 and finished outside the top 6 production.
No, you threw out stats to back your argument without taking into consideration the actual context. If the teams all stayed the same, then sure, your numbers would be relevant. They haven't though. My statement that the Bruins top 6 isn't as elite as a lot of the other top teams is still accurate. Those guys all have the elite scoring ability the Bruins lack. The B's make for that lack of elite top end player by going with scoring by committee. It's not a slight to say that the Bruins have 6 guys who can all score 20 or more goals, while saying that the Rangers have multiple guys who can score 40. It also doesn't mean one approach is better than the other. It just means that in the context of what's happening right now, when you start having injuries to that depth, your margin for error gets smaller.

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