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Phil Kessel Discussion Thread. (no goals as of Feb 4, 2013)

View Poll Results: kessel goals, 15 over or under, this year
over 86 51.50%
under 81 48.50%
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Old
02-01-2013, 08:04 PM
  #176
Hurt
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liminality View Post
Ok this is getting out of hand.

Kessel last year scored

3 goals when up by 1

3 goals when up by 2

2 goals when up by 3

7 goals when down by 1

6 goals when down by 2

1 goal when down by 4



13 goals when tied

1 penalty shot goal

1 empty net goal


Scored 7 goals in the 1st period

Scored 16 goals in the 2nd period

Scored 14 goals in the 3rd period


I know you hate Kessel with a passion obviously and anything he does can't change your mind but you're really reaching if you think Kessel's 30 goal campaigns didn't contribute as much success to McClement on the PK in 7 games.
Where did you get these stats? These are very impressive and interesting to look at.

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02-01-2013, 08:07 PM
  #177
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Phil's coming for you, Boston!

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02-01-2013, 10:06 PM
  #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Believe me I don't want to talk about his stats at all - but its the only argument his supporters have used to date. And now that he's not producing they are conveniently trying to spin the argument into something entirely different that now supports their stance.

I don't care if he scores 50 or scores 5. His success does not represent a significant contribution to the teams overall success in the only statistical category that matters - the win/loss column.

I would say right now - that Jay McClement's contribution to the PK alone - represent a greater contribution to standings than any of Phil Kessels 30+ goal scoring campaigns.
Obvious troll is obvious...

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02-01-2013, 10:17 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Yup, 8 years 7 per. Do it up.
No thanks. 4 or 5 years, 6-6.5 p/y max. Dont want to take the risk of ending up with declining winger with a 7m contract. I am ok signing elite defenders and centers to longer contracts if they have a well rounded game and not only rely on their defensive or offensive skills. But specialists should have shorter contracts so they are both motivated to get a new deal and if they decline wont be a costly burden for the organization.

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02-01-2013, 10:52 PM
  #180
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I don't think Phil is going to score tomorrow or 2 games after. Change the tape on his stick it worked last time

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02-01-2013, 11:53 PM
  #181
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LEave Phil alone.

His game is evolving.

Or have you all missed his backchecking, and holly smokes he threw a bodycheck.

HE is still getting chances. Should have had a hattrick vs WSH. That Wrister from the blueline beat everything but the iron. And Neuvirth's save late in the game made every highlite reel I saw.

He will be fine. We are not trading him. Evryone needs to relax, and focus on the bigger picture.

A top 3 pick this draft. But srsly.

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02-02-2013, 02:14 AM
  #182
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liminality View Post
Ok this is getting out of hand.

Kessel last year scored

3 goals when up by 1

3 goals when up by 2

2 goals when up by 3

7 goals when down by 1

6 goals when down by 2

1 goal when down by 4



13 goals when tied

1 penalty shot goal

1 empty net goal


Scored 7 goals in the 1st period

Scored 16 goals in the 2nd period

Scored 14 goals in the 3rd period


I know you hate Kessel with a passion obviously and anything he does can't change your mind but you're really reaching if you think Kessel's 30 goal campaigns didn't contribute as much success to McClement on the PK in 7 games.
When kessel is "on", his strengths heavily outweigh his weaknesses. He IS clutch. He DOES score when it matters.

The problem is that when kessel is "off", his weaknesses dramatically outweigh his strengths.

And now into his 7th NHL season, he's still plagued by a problem that's been there since game 1. Inconsistency. Being "on" and "off".

So OF COURSE he will turn this around... He has a 7 year history of bouncin back.
Unortunately... After being "on" for a few weeks, he'll fall right back down into one of his slumps.
And on and on we go....

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Old
02-02-2013, 02:47 AM
  #183
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I think this is the best we have seen Kessel... playing great 2-way game, has great vision it's just the bounces aren't going his way. He is not invisible on the ice, he will be fine.

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02-02-2013, 02:49 AM
  #184
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+ It's set up personally so he gets his first goal of the season against the Bruins... I mean hat-trick

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02-02-2013, 03:00 AM
  #185
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I thought Kessel showed how valuable he can be last year when playing with Lupul he was not only a scorer but also a passer something we hadn't seen before where most of his assists came off of his shots. Last year he was a more rounded player and showed that when Lupul or someone like Lupul plays with him TO can ride his coat-tails to success but he like most players can't do it all by himself.

We think because we don't watch other great players that these same great players don't have the same warts as Kessel but if you watch Ovie, Malkin, E. Staal and most other great scoring forwards you would also realize they also have warts.

Knock Kessel if you will but it's best not to knock him without comparing him to other great players. Brett Hull had great stats but he also had Adam Oates setting him up, Brett scored most of his goals in the slot not from in front of the net, he was never very physical and thanks to Xmas parties and team parties he actually got to know his team's goaltenders otherwise he rarely ventured inside his own blue line. Same could be said of Gretzky and many other great players.

I don't know why people choose to trash Kessel but I suspect it's because TO has been so crappy since he landed in TO. Really I don't think it's his fault that he was traded for, that he doesn't have proper linemates to make him an even greater asset and lastly that TO has had such a horrible team but to expect him to single-handidly resurrect TO is just not realistic.

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02-02-2013, 03:02 AM
  #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHockeySanctuary View Post
+ It's set up personally so he gets his first goal of the season against the Bruins... I mean hat-trick
And his 100th goal as a Leaf.

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02-02-2013, 04:04 AM
  #187
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Kessel will score tomorrow.

Maybe 2.

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02-02-2013, 04:27 AM
  #188
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He is the most frustrating player to watch when he goes in a slump.
I just want to smack him on the head everytime he comes down the right wing and takes a shot only to have it deflect on a stick and out of play.

EVERY-EFFING-TIME. The dude loses all creativity and he actually gets frustrated when his shot goes out of play.
He truly believes all those low % shots he takes are labeled.
Yes I like his backchecking efforts and so on, but he should use his brain a little more in the offensive zone and stop taking those moronic shots.


Last edited by leafers: 02-02-2013 at 04:41 AM.
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02-02-2013, 04:31 AM
  #189
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he's been doing more than just shoot pucks... playing the two way game

go **** up Boston Phil

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02-02-2013, 04:43 AM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leafers View Post
He is the most frustrating player to watch when he goes in a slump.
I just want to smack him on the head everytime he comes down the right wing and takes a shot only to have it deflect on a stick and out of play.

EVERY-EFFING-TIME. The dude loses all creativity and he actually gets frustrated when his shot goes out of play.
He truly believes all those low % shots he takes are labeled.
Yes I like his backchecking efforts and so on, but he should use his brain a little more in the offensive zone and stop taking those moronic shots.
I agree but a lot of the time those deflected shots are labelled he has one of the quickest releases and most accurate shots in the league and at the very least usually they cause rebounds and/or scrambles around the net. Look at the highlights of his goals many of them are from his own wing short side.

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02-02-2013, 07:49 AM
  #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rdawg1234 View Post
Yea the problem with trading Phil Kessel is you could essentially end up with a Rick Nash kind of trade.

So basically one elite player for 3-4 lesser support players, fine for a Columbus, but we really only need one or two more big pieces, not a bunch of support pieces.

Unless it's a number 1 Centre, or a #1 G+top 6 forward It would be a sideways move, even a #1 Centre trade would be a sideways move, as we'd just end up looking for a winger ala the Sundin days.

Keep him, end in the bottom 10 this year and draft your #1 C, none of this trade crap.

He's a great piece once the team becomes more well rounded.
MMMMM, maybe a sideways move, but the incoming player could have a different kind of game, a more well rounded game.

Say like a M Richards or Bergeron , Perry type player.

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02-02-2013, 11:02 AM
  #192
Liminality
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hurt View Post
Where did you get these stats? These are very impressive and interesting to look at.
I actually just watched the youtube video of Kessel's 37 goals again and tallied them all down.

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02-02-2013, 11:04 AM
  #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liminality View Post
I actually just watched the youtube video of Kessel's 37 goals again and tallied them all down.
Dedication right there. Respect.

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02-02-2013, 11:04 AM
  #194
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liminality View Post
I actually just watched the youtube video of Kessel's 37 goals again and tallied them all down.
That's dedication

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02-02-2013, 11:50 AM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Liminality View Post
I actually just watched the youtube video of Kessel's 37 goals again and tallied them all down.
Awesome - they are very encouraging stats for Phil

I will counter by saying that:

1. Only 6 of those 37 goals were considered Game Winners
2. 10 of those goals came on the man-advantage (3 via 5on3)
3. The TEAM finished 5th LAST overall in the standings
4. Phil was on the ice for 47 goals against!

As to my original post:
A 6.3% increase in PK profecency (77.3% - 83.6% or 28th up to 10th) would represent a 15 goal differential ... They also gave up 5 short handed - For a total of 60 goals against on the PK last season alone.

As a team Toronto gave up 259 Goals Against good for 29th Overall ! A minimal improvement from 29th-15th would represent a 41 Goal Differential.

Thats a modest improvement of nearly 60GA !

Toronto was tied for 3rd worst in the league for losing games decided by one goal or less last year.

Trading Phil Kessel has very little to do with his individual performance - but rather the teams - and how they can become more competitive moving forward. Its proven he cannot do it all on his own - but where do you get the other pieces to puzzle?

Miracle UFA's
Mortgage the Future for Help Today?

We've been down that road - do any of you really want to try again?


Last edited by DaveT83*: 02-02-2013 at 12:07 PM.
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02-02-2013, 01:48 PM
  #196
Liminality
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Trading Phil Kessel has very little to do with his individual performance - but rather the teams - and how they can become more competitive moving forward. Its proven he cannot do it all on his own - but where do you get the other pieces to puzzle?
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I definately know where you're coming from. Trading Kessel would be the easiest path towards getting a #1 C or a #1 G. How many are available currently that are worth giving up Kessel for? We don't know. I just find it way too risky to trade a proven 25 turning 26 year old all star winger for draft picks which would be the next closest avenue we could possibly go down.

I'm not against trading Kessel for an improvement in the teams composition. I'm just disgusted by the amount of people who think Kessel does next to nothing for this team and has little to no room for improvement when he shows so much promise.

It'll be interesting to see what Nonis does after this year with Kessel but we got to wait and enjoy the season first.

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02-02-2013, 02:31 PM
  #197
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post

Trading Phil Kessel has very little to do with his individual performance - but rather the teams - and how they can become more competitive moving forward. Its proven he cannot do it all on his own - but where do you get the other pieces to puzzle?

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We've been down that road - do any of you really want to try again?
Makes little sense to me, if we do this bad with him on the team, why not just add pieces around him?

It's not his fault that his two linemates are also quite weak defensively, or that our goaltending was atrocious these past few years, so I dont know how you can blame him for those 47 goals against.

yes he is below average defensively, but extremely skilled offensively, put him with a two-way centre and you have a deadly line.

adding a top 10 pick this year, most likely a potential #1 C will do wonders, and will most likely be ready by the time he's 27-28.

I see little reason to trade Kessel, as I guarentee almost all trades would be a sideways move at best.

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02-02-2013, 02:38 PM
  #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
When kessel is "on", his strengths heavily outweigh his weaknesses. He IS clutch. He DOES score when it matters.

The problem is that when kessel is "off", his weaknesses dramatically outweigh his strengths.

And now into his 7th NHL season, he's still plagued by a problem that's been there since game 1. Inconsistency. Being "on" and "off".

So OF COURSE he will turn this around... He has a 7 year history of bouncin back.
Unortunately... After being "on" for a few weeks, he'll fall right back down into one of his slumps.
And on and on we go....
That point was more true for seasons past than this season. Kessel's work away from the puck has much improved, and he's still generating scoring chances that his linemates are cashing in on. Judging him by his play (and not just by the scoreboard), he seems very much "on" atm.

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02-02-2013, 02:46 PM
  #199
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveT83 View Post
Awesome - they are very encouraging stats for Phil

I will counter by saying that:

1. Only 6 of those 37 goals were considered Game Winners
2. 10 of those goals came on the man-advantage (3 via 5on3)
3. The TEAM finished 5th LAST overall in the standings
4. Phil was on the ice for 47 goals against!

As to my original post:
A 6.3% increase in PK profecency (77.3% - 83.6% or 28th up to 10th) would represent a 15 goal differential ... They also gave up 5 short handed - For a total of 60 goals against on the PK last season alone.

As a team Toronto gave up 259 Goals Against good for 29th Overall ! A minimal improvement from 29th-15th would represent a 41 Goal Differential.

Thats a modest improvement of nearly 60GA !

Toronto was tied for 3rd worst in the league for losing games decided by one goal or less last year.

Trading Phil Kessel has very little to do with his individual performance - but rather the teams - and how they can become more competitive moving forward. Its proven he cannot do it all on his own - but where do you get the other pieces to puzzle?

Miracle UFA's
Mortgage the Future for Help Today?

We've been down that road - do any of you really want to try again?
You know...I dislike Kassian because of things I know about that guy. You can say I loathe him. However I credit him for his work and always praise what he is capable of, and not to mention best at what he does, as dirty as it might be. Never have I held him accountable for entire team's demise nor have I gone on rampage about it.

In this post, there is way to much effort on what's wrong with a players game than actually acknowledging what he has contributed. You are fighting way to hard to prove that point he isn't a game breaker. Even the most arrogant Bruins fans who despise kessel is willing to admit more than the stats you have posted.

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02-02-2013, 02:48 PM
  #200
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
That point was more true for seasons past than this season. Kessel's work away from the puck has much improved, and he's still generating scoring chances that his linemates are cashing in on. Judging him by his play (and not just by the scoreboard), he seems very much "on" atm.
So now we can judge Phil Kessel by his play - and not his stats?

You guys make it so confusing - normally Kessel supporters completely disregard anything other than his 30+ goals. Now that he's not scoring its awfully convenient that his "play away from the puck" is fair game.

I can list you 100 players in the NHL that are far superior to Phil Kessel "Away From the Puck" .. so if he's not scoring goals - and he's below average away from the puck - why are we trying to rebuild around him?>

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