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01-29-2013, 12:53 AM
  #226
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Look vaunt the names all you like but the offense hasn't set the world on fire and is being held back by the defense. The complete lack of compete is a boat anchor on this team. Your best player cannot be a young #2/3 tweener center night in and night out. Eriksson, Whitney, Ryder, and Jagr have all mailed it in on one night or another and we're only 6 games in. If talent doesn't work hard nothing is going to be accomplished.

Between the mental errors, the lack of physical fight for the puck, the penalty parade and poor coaching talent will only take us back to that lovely 8-14th draft pick. Gulutzan is holding this team back but some of those veterans aren't helping the cause and the kids are going through the normal young player growing pains exacerbated by the abject fear that if they screw up they'll be in the press box tomorrow while their older teammates get away with murder.

Hopefully Benn will help but anyone who's expecting playoffs from this team was and is sorely mistaken.

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01-29-2013, 05:00 AM
  #227
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Gulutzan is holding this team back but some of those veterans aren't helping the cause and the kids are going through the normal young player growing pains exacerbated by the abject fear that if they screw up they'll be in the press box tomorrow while their older teammates get away with murder.
I'm not expecting playoffs or any great team success this season. The bolded part above is by far the biggest disappointment I've seen this season and the reason I hope that the GM has the balls to guide his coach to make the right decisions for the organization long term.

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01-29-2013, 09:49 AM
  #228
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post
What do you mean by bought in?

The quotes the GM gives after the draft mean nothing. He's going to parrot whatever his scouts told him about the player.

Joe sets the overall vision for the types of players he wants the organization to look for, he doesn't make picks. By removing Bernhardt it was a pretty clear signal that his vision does not include spending premium picks on goalies.
I doubt that GM's simply rubber stamp what their scouting department says and then parrot their opinions later.

For Joe, the Glennie pick would be an exception to that, because he only had a few weeks on the job so he couldn't participate in that process throughout the year.

Perhaps I'm wrong, and this probably varies by team, but I would think that in general GM's have decision rights, influence, control, and input into the scouting and drafting process.

Maybe in this case you're right about Campbell being the reason he fired Bernhardt. But keep in mind that with bloggers, message boards, speculative journalists and the like, it's easy for fans to see point A and point Z, and fill in the 24 letters in between. And finally, we don't even know whether picking Campbell over Fowler was a bad move yet.

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01-29-2013, 11:34 AM
  #229
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Sure they have some input but they don't go, "Let's draft player X and player Y", this isn't football. In a normal season NHL GMs simply don't have the time to be extensively watching junior level hockey in dozens of leagues around the world. I guess the first half of this year would be an exception, maybe you'll see some abnormal drafting this summer I don't know. The GM has to be understandably focused on A) his team, B) the rest of the NHL, C) his AHL team.

And Campbell over Fowler was a bad move. Fowler will have at least 3 seasons of NHL contribution provided to the Ducks before Campbell could even conceivably compete for an NHL spot. In all likelihood he'll have a 4-5 season head start and this is assuming Campbell makes the NHL at all. For Campbell to match this over the course of both of their careers he will have to be a significantly better goalie than Fowler is a defenseman. If Fowler doesn't progress any further and turns out to be a 2nd pairing type then Campbell will have to be a full-time starter. If Fowler gets better and becomes a first pairing D, Campbell will need to be an elite starter. If Fowler becomes an All-Star level player, Campbell will need to be one of the best goalies of all time.

I mean, watch Fowler and he's already a better player than Goligoski...

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01-29-2013, 01:52 PM
  #230
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post

And Campbell over Fowler was a bad move. Fowler will have at least 3 seasons of NHL contribution provided to the Ducks before Campbell could even conceivably compete for an NHL spot. In all likelihood he'll have a 4-5 season head start and this is assuming Campbell makes the NHL at all. For Campbell to match this over the course of both of their careers he will have to be a significantly better goalie than Fowler is a defenseman. If Fowler doesn't progress any further and turns out to be a 2nd pairing type then Campbell will have to be a full-time starter. If Fowler gets better and becomes a first pairing D, Campbell will need to be an elite starter. If Fowler becomes an All-Star level player, Campbell will need to be one of the best goalies of all time.

I mean, watch Fowler and he's already a better player than Goligoski...
That's a tough situation to compare. If Fowler had been drafted by Dallas he would have gone back to the OHL for at least one more season. Also the way this team handles young defensemen in the the NHL doesn't inspire great confidence that Fowler's first 3 NHL seasons in Dallas would have been better than Niskanen's. Fowler could someday be a top pairing defenseman or he could be MA Bergeron 2.0. If Dallas had drafted him and rushed him to the NHL I think we would be looking at the next MA Bergeron.

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01-29-2013, 07:19 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by piqued View Post
Sure they have some input but they don't go, "Let's draft player X and player Y", this isn't football. In a normal season NHL GMs simply don't have the time to be extensively watching junior level hockey in dozens of leagues around the world. I guess the first half of this year would be an exception, maybe you'll see some abnormal drafting this summer I don't know. The GM has to be understandably focused on A) his team, B) the rest of the NHL, C) his AHL team.

And Campbell over Fowler was a bad move. Fowler will have at least 3 seasons of NHL contribution provided to the Ducks before Campbell could even conceivably compete for an NHL spot. In all likelihood he'll have a 4-5 season head start and this is assuming Campbell makes the NHL at all. For Campbell to match this over the course of both of their careers he will have to be a significantly better goalie than Fowler is a defenseman. If Fowler doesn't progress any further and turns out to be a 2nd pairing type then Campbell will have to be a full-time starter. If Fowler gets better and becomes a first pairing D, Campbell will need to be an elite starter. If Fowler becomes an All-Star level player, Campbell will need to be one of the best goalies of all time.

I mean, watch Fowler and he's already a better player than Goligoski...
I'm with you up until about here. If Fowler becomes an All Star caliber defenseman Campbell should be an All Star caliber goalie. Given the disparity in spots available for the two positions that's a fair statement I think. I don't think he should have to be an all time great to close the gap between Fowler making a few All Star games to make up for the head start in his NHL career.

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01-29-2013, 07:24 PM
  #232
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One thing I do like about Joe is that he's looking at the future longterm, not just for the next 2-3 years. Hard to say that about quite a few GMs, looking at some of their moves.

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01-29-2013, 08:16 PM
  #233
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Pretty sad when your undrafted rookie defenseman is the only thing that can motivate your team to play. Kind of a coaching job.

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01-29-2013, 08:37 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
One thing I do like about Joe is that he's looking at the future longterm, not just for the next 2-3 years. Hard to say that about quite a few GMs, looking at some of their moves.
They are concerned about their jobs. Joe is building something but he might be out of a job by the time his patience pays off.

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01-29-2013, 11:11 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
One thing I do like about Joe is that he's looking at the future longterm, not just for the next 2-3 years. Hard to say that about quite a few GMs, looking at some of their moves.
And yet he's not insisting the kids play. He's added a lot of prospects but what does that matter when you don't give them the minutes they need when called up? The rotation of scratching the kids is beyond stupid. You can't say the long term is your focus when all your coaches actions are contrary to that.

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01-29-2013, 11:24 PM
  #236
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And yet he's not insisting the kids play. He's added a lot of prospects but what does that matter when you don't give them the minutes they need when called up? The rotation of scratching the kids is beyond stupid. You can't say the long term is your focus when all your coaches actions are contrary to that.
Seconded

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01-29-2013, 11:32 PM
  #237
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Gully's never really had the chance to even get the kids into the line-up much outside of R. Smith at the tail end of last year (which isn't nearly big enough of a sample to prove anything), not even in the AHL. I don't see how that's Joe's problem at all, it's all on Gully. If in 3-4 more games we're still losing and they're still being played like they are now, then I want to see Joe step in. But them losing 5-6 minutes for the first 10 games of the season is not going to ruin their development at all.

That, and how many prospects step into a top 6 role immediately? Very few, typically only the elite players. Smith and Vincour are both bottom 6 options, and I don't see it as a bad thing that they aren't getting significant ice time. They'll get it eventually, just need to have some patience.

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01-29-2013, 11:46 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
I don't see how that's Joe's problem at all, it's all on Gully.
You and I disagree on something significant - Joe is Gulutzan's boss, not some guy who is along for the ride with a rookie coach. It's the GM's job to have a philosophy and a desire for steps to be taken each season in building toward the ultimate goal. It's the coach's job to get on board not the GM's job to come around to the coach's way of doing things, especially not a rookie coach. Gully was given some nice new pieces for the top six and PP in the form of numerous veterans. It's not too much to ask him to give some responsibility to younger players to augment those additions.

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01-29-2013, 11:49 PM
  #239
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You and I disagree on something significant - Joe is Gulutzan's boss, not some guy who is along for the ride with a rookie coach. It's the GM's job to have a philosophy and a desire for steps to be taken each season in building toward the ultimate goal. It's the coach's job to get on board not the GM's job to come around to the coach's way of doing things, especially not a rookie coach. Gully was given some nice new pieces for the top six and PP in the form of numerous veterans. It's not too much to ask him to give some responsibility to younger players to augment those additions.
And how exactly do you propose to do that? 14 minutes is a top 6 - all of our wingers were healthy tonight.

Forwards aren't much of an issue anymore, once you think about it. It's mostly defense IMO.

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01-29-2013, 11:52 PM
  #240
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I put the blame on the entire team and coaching staff and organization.

The team (minus goalies) isn't stepping up. The coaching staff isn't stepping up. The organization isn't stepping up.

Step up or step off, honestly.

(Robidas, Morrow, and Dillon all stepped up tonight. Nystrom tried.)

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01-29-2013, 11:53 PM
  #241
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I put the blame on the entire team and coaching staff and organization.

The team (minus goalies) isn't stepping up. The coaching staff isn't stepping up. The organization isn't stepping up.

Step up or step off, honestly.
Best post yet in this thread.

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01-29-2013, 11:56 PM
  #242
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Oh I forgot Cody Eakin. Eakin's stepping up like a boss.

Like I said in the Sack Gully thread.

I give it another week with everyone reasonably healthy and some time off to figure **** out before heads roll.

If we're stuck with 2-3 guys stepping up, 1 of which that can't generate offense, well we're ****ed. Someone's always got to be stepping up on the ice, preferably everyone.


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01-30-2013, 01:25 AM
  #243
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Originally Posted by LatvianTwist View Post
And how exactly do you propose to do that? 14 minutes is a top 6 - all of our wingers were healthy tonight.

Forwards aren't much of an issue anymore, once you think about it. It's mostly defense IMO.
Smith was supposedly healthy scratched last night so he'd have fresh legs. He played the least minutes on the team tonight. He subbed in tonight for Vincour and vice versa last night. That is ********. What exactly has Ryan Garbutt done to guarantee him a spot in the lineup every single game? He's a 27 year old 4th liner just breaking into the NHL. There's a place in this league for guys like that but taking icetime away from actual prospects on our team isn't one of them.

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01-30-2013, 06:57 AM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Frozen Failure View Post
I put the blame on the entire team and coaching staff and organization.

The team (minus goalies) isn't stepping up. The coaching staff isn't stepping up. The organization isn't stepping up.

Step up or step off, honestly.

(Robidas, Morrow, and Dillon all stepped up tonight. Nystrom tried.)
It's all about coaching.

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02-01-2013, 10:49 PM
  #245
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Backchecking needs to better. Another tally against the coach.

Have the players for great backchecking, which makes this a head scratcher.

Eriksson, Benn, Eakin, Roussel, Vincour, Fiddler, and Nystrom. All good at doing it, but there's never really a solid team effort to get back like they should.

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02-01-2013, 10:54 PM
  #246
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Also, the passing is ****. The odd part? Our defense (other than Goli and Robidas) are making GREAT passes.

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02-01-2013, 10:58 PM
  #247
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Also, the passing is ****. The odd part? Our defense (other than Goli and Robidas) are making GREAT passes.
Because almost all of the defense besides Robidas and Goli were playing in Cedar Park

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02-01-2013, 11:00 PM
  #248
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Because almost all of the defense besides Robidas and Goli were playing in Cedar Park
Haha! Exactly sir, exactly.

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02-01-2013, 11:31 PM
  #249
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Roussel needs to stay.

Oleksiak needs to stay.

The ice may be an issue for Jagr to get used to.(Hasn't looked too great in the AAC) Plus it's his first time playing in the west.

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