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Signing Bouillon was an error

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07-02-2006, 09:01 AM
  #1
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Signing Bouillon was an error

Let make it clear at first : I love Bouillon and I would like to keep him here but, i think that Souray, Rivet, Dandenault, Komisarek and Markov are all better or more important for the CH. Coté and Streit are not as good but they have better potential and cost us cheap.

Why signing him was an error if we only have 5 dmens better than Bouillon ? Because of Spacek, McKee or Kuba. These guys could have replace Bouillon and all of them are top 4 dmens when Bouillon is a number 5 or 6 dman. With this, we didnt improve our D at all and our chance to improve our O are very small now that all interesting UFA are gone. I dont want Arnott here, neither Samsonov or Sykora. We need a dman and we sign an undersized number 6 dman at 1.9M, that shocking when you know that 1M more and you could sign Kuba or Spacek or even McKee if u add more....

I really hope Bouillon turns into top 4 dman, or we will not improve at all during summer and that suck, we wont go in 2nd round with the same lineup

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07-02-2006, 09:02 AM
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Did it occur to you that maybe McKee, Spacek or Kuba did not want to come to Montreal?

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07-02-2006, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Lordchezz View Post
Did it occur to you that maybe McKee, Spacek or Kuba did not want to come to Montreal?
Maybe 1 even 2 of these dont want but I cant believe no one want to come in MTL

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07-02-2006, 09:08 AM
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They also cost a fair bit more then Bouillon and even less room to sign or trade for some offence. As for all the FA being gone, how so?

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07-02-2006, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordchezz View Post
Did it occur to you that maybe McKee, Spacek or Kuba did not want to come to Montreal?
Exactly, I think people overestimate the Gainey and Carbo factor and since there's till 29 other teams in the league, Montreal, for a lot of them will not be their first choice. And Gainey decided to pay Bouillon accordingly since he knew that Bouillon will give it all and WANTS to be play here. Better to have players who want to play here than players who have no choice because there's no other offers on the table....

Signing Bouillon was not an error, the error might happen if Gainey has no plans for our UFA top 3.....

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07-02-2006, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by whitesnake View Post
Exactly, I think people overestimate the Gainey and Carbo factor and since there's till 29 other teams in the league, Montreal, for a lot of them will not be their first choice. And Gainey decided to pay Bouillon accordingly since he knew that Bouillon will give it all and WANTS to be play here. Better to have players who want to play here than players who have no choice because there's no other offers on the table....

Signing Bouillon was not an error, the error might happen if Gainey has no plans for our UFA top 3.....
You talk about our 3 first dmens ? If yes, if u want to sign another dman we absolutly need to trade one of our defensman because we already have 7 dmens

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07-02-2006, 09:10 AM
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As I mentioned on an other thread, signing Bouillon was good, specially because Markov, Souray and Rivet will need to be signed next season.... bringing a guy that played ZERO for 4M$ a season would have allowed those guys to ask for at least the same amount......... which is ridiculous.

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07-02-2006, 09:13 AM
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I just hope the get tow of the three dmen we have signed. In order, Markov, Rivet and then Souray.

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07-02-2006, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
I just hope the get tow of the three dmen we have signed. In order, Markov, Rivet and then Souray.
Forget about Souray, the guy wants out, and he will have that chance next year. Why would he signed???

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07-02-2006, 09:18 AM
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Markov, you just have to chill out a little... the Bouillon signing was not a mistake. UFA period is traditionally a time for players to cash in on any GMs that are willing to overpay. Even if left alone our defence next season should be better than last as Komisarek and Streit improve, and hopefully Souray turns it around.

The sky is not falling. The easiest way to ruin a team is to saddle them down with a multi-year signing of an overpaid UFA or two, eliminating the GM's flexibility and ability to make shrewd trades. Don't sweat it! Personally, I'm happy that BG doesn't seem to get caught up in the machismo of it all.

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07-02-2006, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Markov#79 View Post
Maybe 1 even 2 of these dont want but I cant believe no one want to come in MTL
Unfortunately, it's difficult for us to know such things. If you look in terms of odds and probabilities, you took a sample of 3 players and there are 30 teams. That would means that theres a 1/10 chance that one of these 3 players would come to Montreal. And yes I know several factors may skew this number a bit, but if you look at the big picture, once again in terms of odds, 1 free agent out of 30 will sign with the Habs. So if there are 60 UFA's, the logic would dictate that we should EXPECT to sign 2. However, like Bob said, expect the unexpected.

I know these numbers don't take into account several factors, but I'm just going by odds in terms of raw number. Anyone who's taken a class in statistics can back me up on this one, I believe.

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07-02-2006, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Markov#79 View Post
You talk about our 3 first dmens ? If yes, if u want to sign another dman we absolutly need to trade one of our defensman because we already have 7 dmens
Well I'm all for ''trying'' to trade Souray since thy guy will be gone and it's possible we don't get anything for him. In a world where everybody is overpaid, I believe you could go to a team known as being Souray's preference and trade for him. I like Souray but he will leave anyway. You also need to talk to Markov and see his intentions. Rivet I'm not worried, he'll be back.

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07-02-2006, 09:21 AM
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First thing is first, Cube wants to play here.
2ndly Gainey knows what he can do for this team and knows he fits in, not every UFA out there can fit in...the chemistry needs to be there.
Lastly the price was right, he is young and he gives us depth at the 5th and 6th spot and BG maybe looking for a 3rd or 4th Dman in a trade involving Souray.

Gainey himself stated he would be active in signing players and through trade, its been one day.

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07-02-2006, 09:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordchezz View Post
Unfortunately, it's difficult for us to know such things. If you look in terms of odds and probabilities, you took a sample of 3 players and there are 30 teams. That would means that theres a 1/10 chance that one of these 3 players would come to Montreal. And yes I know several factors may skew this number a bit, but if you look at the big picture, once again in terms of odds, 1 free agent out of 30 will sign with the Habs. So if there are 60 UFA's, the logic would dictate that we should EXPECT to sign 2. However, like Bob said, expect the unexpected.

I know these numbers don't take into account several factors, but I'm just going by odds in terms of raw number. Anyone who's taken a class in statistics can back me up on this one, I believe.
Can I know WHEN THE HELL he said that ?? I ask to the topic but no one answer me

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07-02-2006, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by RE-HABS View Post
First thing is first, Cube wants to play here.
2ndly Gainey knows what he can do for this team and knows he fits in, not every UFA out there can fit in...the chemistry needs to be there.
Lastly the price was right, he is young and he gives us depth at the 5th and 6th spot and BG maybe looking for a 3rd or 4th Dman in a trade involving Souray.

Gainey himself stated he would be active in signing players and through trade, its been one day.
Obviously we are overreacting, we're Habs Fans don't you remember????

But personnaly, I'm reacting over the fact that it's pretty surprising that the only guy, correct me if I'm wrong, that had a potentiel connection with another GM and coach was Arnott and nothing was done quickly like it should've been when you know everybody's intention and so on.....How come Chara and the others seemed to have agreed like 5 hours after the deadline but it wasn't done in our case.

Either means nothing, or means he's not coming. We'll see. But it's pretty normal to be somewhat frustrated when you see tons of movement and you're just looking at it.

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07-02-2006, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Markov#79 View Post
Can I know WHEN THE HELL he said that ?? I ask to the topic but no one answer me

He said that in an interview shortly after then end of the season.


I'm looking for a link but unfortunatelty I can't find it. But I did read it on RDS.

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07-02-2006, 09:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lordchezz View Post
He said that in an interview shortly after then end of the season.


I'm looking for a link but unfortunatelty I can't find it. But I did read it on RDS.
I might be wrong, but I think he mentionned at the end of his season ending press conference. wasn't it when a journalist asked him about the free agency or something like that?

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07-02-2006, 09:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Markov#79 View Post
Let make it clear at first : I love Bouillon and I would like to keep him here but, i think that Souray, Rivet, Dandenault, Komisarek and Markov are all better or more important for the CH. Coté and Streit are not as good but they have better potential and cost us cheap.

Why signing him was an error if we only have 5 dmens better than Bouillon ? Because of Spacek, McKee or Kuba. These guys could have replace Bouillon and all of them are top 4 dmens when Bouillon is a number 5 or 6 dman. With this, we didnt improve our D at all and our chance to improve our O are very small now that all interesting UFA are gone. I dont want Arnott here, neither Samsonov or Sykora. We need a dman and we sign an undersized number 6 dman at 1.9M, that shocking when you know that 1M more and you could sign Kuba or Spacek or even McKee if u add more....

I really hope Bouillon turns into top 4 dman, or we will not improve at all during summer and that suck, we wont go in 2nd round with the same lineup
Good post. Agree 100%. Expect to get flamed though.

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07-02-2006, 09:39 AM
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Are you expecting Bouillon to continue playing as a #2 defenceman for a good portion of the year - while others like Souray and Dandenault underachieve - all of his career while staying stuck at only 600K per season? Come on, that's unrealistic. On some nights, Bouillon was our best blueliner out there, and at least you can count on him to give an honest effort night in and night out.

I hate the comparision game, but just let me tell you guys I'm much more comfortable with Bouillon signed for 3 yrs at 1.875M than being stuck with a freakin pylon by the name of Hal Gill for 3 yrs at 2.1M a year. Franky is much more mobile, plays the body just as much as Gill despite being a foot smaller, and has more offensive creativity than Gill will ever have. He's also a Quebecois and a fan favorite. Toronto fans have so many more reasons than Habs fans to be whining about their GM's FA signings.

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07-02-2006, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by beowulf View Post
They also cost a fair bit more then Bouillon and even less room to sign or trade for some offence. As for all the FA being gone, how so?
What offence do you speak of? To think they are saving cap room to spend on offence, you are in dreamland.

I gurantee they start the season with at least 6 million in cap space.

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07-02-2006, 09:49 AM
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Allright, so I read this thread (and a few others for that matter) and from my understanding, we spent days analyzing Arnott, Shanahan, Samsonov and Elias. Only Elias signs to what I call a ridiculous contract for the Devils and some people already complain?? I don't get it... All those we wanted this week are still there!! If Arnott and Samsonov come today, will that be that bad of a summer??

And those defensemen were wayyyy overpaid... Who would have been our replacement for Bouillon, a very solid stay at home character guy?? Kim Johnsson at 5 a year?? McKee at 4 a year?? Kubina at 5?? Ridiculous... These guys are not 2 or 3 times better than Bouillon. Bigger yes, but not necessarily better.

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07-02-2006, 09:59 AM
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Expect the unexpected is right...I expected signings and unexpectingly we didn't do any.

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07-02-2006, 10:01 AM
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Initially, I thought Cube was getting a bit too much. But after yesterday, seeing all these middle pairing D-men making almost twice as much (see Joe Corvo), I'm MUCH happier with Bouillon making 1.9/year.

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07-02-2006, 10:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Kyle Chipchura View Post
Are you expecting Bouillon to continue playing as a #2 defenceman for a good portion of the year - while others like Souray and Dandenault underachieve - all of his career while staying stuck at only 600K per season? Come on, that's unrealistic. On some nights, Bouillon was our best blueliner out there, and at least you can count on him to give an honest effort night in and night out.

I hate the comparision game, but just let me tell you guys I'm much more comfortable with Bouillon signed for 3 yrs at 1.875M than being stuck with a freakin pylon by the name of Hal Gill for 3 yrs at 2.1M a year. Franky is much more mobile, plays the body just as much as Gill despite being a foot smaller, and has more offensive creativity than Gill will ever have. He's also a Quebecois and a fan favorite. Toronto fans have so many more reasons than Habs fans to be whining about their GM's FA signings.
Good post and I agree. Sure Bouillon nearly tripled his salary and that makes some people anxious, but in my mind, in the new NHL, unless the player is on his 1st contract, we're going to see 3rd pairing guys make this kind of money. I doubt we'll see many more 500K contracts for the older players. Even Commodore signed a pretty lucrative deal that would have seemed ridiculous a few years ago.

But that's beside the point. Bouillon has shown he belongs in the NHL and can play at a high level night in and night out. He was one of our most consistent defenders last year. He works his butt off and has shown he's a dependable 3rd pairing guy. He's very well suited for the new rules and brings a lot to this team. I think that he adds depth to our defence and comes cheap, so there isn't really much to complain about.

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07-02-2006, 10:15 AM
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Well you can tell that free agent fever has got some poster here delerious.

I don't think Boullion signing is an error. Compared to the other defense signings I saw yesterday, the Boullion signing was a smart move by Gainey. I think Boullion's game can improve this upcoming year, and actually I don't think he needs to improve in any area, but consistancy. Boullion has shown that he can play an effective game many times last year.

..but back to the free agent fever.

Here we sit drooling about the players that other teams signed, not looking at the fact that 90% of them got grossly overpaid. These contracts many times in hindsight look horrible. Go back to previous free agent periods and look at how many of the UFA signings were good and how many were bad.


McKee - $4M a year!!!!!!!!
Corvo - $2.5M a year!!!!!!!
Kubina - $5M a year!!!!!!!!
Gill - $2.1M a year!!!!!!!!

Imo, the Boullion signings was alot better that any of those.


Also, why is it when we resign our own guys we don't look at ti as UFA signings. I mean if lost a couple UFA's, signed a couple other UFA's that looked similiar to thew ones we lost, we would say Gaioney was active on the market, but if we resign the UFA's that polayed on our team the previous year, why is that somehow different???? We probablely pay less for the guys who played for us the previous year. The coaching staff already knows the player and how he fits in with the team, so......

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