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HOH Top 100 Final List

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Old
07-14-2009, 10:13 PM
  #1001
Ilya Kovalchoke*
 
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It's a very solid list overall, however I do think that Lemieux was better than Howe. Mario should be number 3 on the list. The comebacks the guy had, the 199 point season with average-to-poor players on his team, single handedly saving a franchise numerous times throughout his career and his overall dominance. The injuries were the only thing that could ever slow Lemieux and if you're going to hold that against him than Orr shuld be lowered as well (I think he should be number 1, but it's close anyways). If Mario were able to stay healthy his entire career his numbers wouldn't be all far off of Gretzkys who played with one of the greatest teams ever for his best years.

I'm not complaining I'm just making a case for why I think Mario should number 3, obviously I'm in the minority as the voters decided Howe was greater.

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Old
07-14-2009, 10:29 PM
  #1002
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Originally Posted by Percyswan View Post
It's a very solid list overall, however I do think that Lemieux was better than Howe. Mario should be number 3 on the list. The comebacks the guy had, the 199 point season with average-to-poor players on his team, single handedly saving a franchise numerous times throughout his career and his overall dominance. The injuries were the only thing that could ever slow Lemieux and if you're going to hold that against him than Orr shuld be lowered as well (I think he should be number 1, but it's close anyways). If Mario were able to stay healthy his entire career his numbers wouldn't be all far off of Gretzkys who played with one of the greatest teams ever for his best years.

I'm not complaining I'm just making a case for why I think Mario should number 3, obviously I'm in the minority as the voters decided Howe was greater.
If you read all the posts I made regarding Howe vs. Orr vs. Gretzky vs. Lemieux in the original Voting threads linked on page 1 and you still feel that way, then I beg of you to give me s good reason for it. Howe IMO is closer to Gretzky/Orr and the #1 spot (where I feel he belongs) than he is to Lemieux at #4. 20 straight seasons as a top 5 scorer in the NHL? That's just plain insane.....

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Old
07-14-2009, 10:36 PM
  #1003
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Originally Posted by FissionFire View Post
If you read all the posts I made regarding Howe vs. Orr vs. Gretzky vs. Lemieux in the original Voting threads linked on page 1 and you still feel that way, then I beg of you to give me s good reason for it. Howe IMO is closer to Gretzky/Orr and the #1 spot (where I feel he belongs) than he is to Lemieux at #4. 20 straight seasons as a top 5 scorer in the NHL? That's just plain insane.....
I think it depends on whether you look at it in terms of best career or best ability. I treated the list as the top-100 careers of all time, and put Lemieux 4th (if I recall). However, I think rank him second only to Orr in terms of how good every player was at their absolute best. In that sense, it wouldn't matter that Howe had a billion years of dominance, if I felt Lemieux was just plain better than him at their best (and I do). I figured a ranking of career value was more more appropriate though.

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07-14-2009, 11:22 PM
  #1004
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I rank Howe better, he brought the intangibles that lemieux lacks. I rank Howe above orr too, two times the career and he was also an excellent two way player like Orr. Howe and Gretzky are the ones that should battle it out for #1.

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Old
07-14-2009, 11:47 PM
  #1005
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I wouldn't say Conacher was a gentle giant. He was Toronto's enforcer, according to Clancy.

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Old
07-15-2009, 12:30 AM
  #1006
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Originally Posted by ushvinder View Post
Yeah but conacher is more of a brett hull, great 3-5 year peak and then nothing else. Except hull had alot of good years to go along with his peak, unlike conacher.
Conacher's problem was injuries. So, like Orr, he's a bit of a what if. But, at the end of the day, in his seven full seasons pre-injury woes, he has 5 goal scoring titles. That is just crazy.

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Old
07-15-2009, 11:54 AM
  #1007
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Originally Posted by ushvinder View Post
Well 6 spots isn't really that big of a difference when you are comparing all players from a 100 year time period.

It certainly isn't as big as the gap between charlie conacher and doug bentley. I was surprised by that, is conacher really that much better than him?
A lot of people are going to have Doug Bentley much higher in the next time around, or so they said after I made a strong case for him.

That said, Conacher is higher on the master list than he is on my personal list, but he still deserves his accolades. Winning 5 goal scoring titles is something only the few have done, as well as placing top 4 five times with 2 Art Ross trophies.

Someone mentioned Conacher's playoff record as being a bit lacking, but in that time period, his playoff record was the norm.

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07-15-2009, 12:04 PM
  #1008
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Originally Posted by ushvinder View Post
I rank Howe better, he brought the intangibles that lemieux lacks. I rank Howe above orr too, two times the career and he was also an excellent two way player like Orr. Howe and Gretzky are the ones that should battle it out for #1.
Orr's peak was so good that there is no way I am ranking Howe better, not that Howe's peak was anything but great. Orr was supernatural. As good two way Howe was, he was no match for Orr in any way shape or form in that department.

Orr outscoring the next closest Dman by 173%, 121%, 60%, 87%(Missing 16 games), 107%, and 78% while being the best defensive defenseman in the league next to possibly Serge Savard(But its close).

Hart trophy or no Hart trophy, there was no doubt Orr was the best player in the league every single year. Could kill penalties single handedly by just skating with the puck and completely dominate games in ways nobody else ever did.

Greatest peak of all time.

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Old
07-15-2009, 12:12 PM
  #1009
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Serge Savard

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jekyll View Post
Orr's peak was so good that there is no way I am ranking Howe better, not that Howe's peak was anything but great. Orr was supernatural. As good two way Howe was, he was no match for Orr in any way shape or form in that department.

Orr outscoring the next closest Dman by 173%, 121%, 60%, 87%(Missing 16 games), 107%, and 78% while being the best defensive defenseman in the league next to possibly Serge Savard(But its close).

Hart trophy or no Hart trophy, there was no doubt Orr was the best player in the league every single year. Could kill penalties single handedly by just skating with the puck and completely dominate games in ways nobody else ever did.

Greatest peak of all time.
Serge Savard pre two broken legs. Interesting comparison. 1968 and 1969 playoffs, Canadiens beat the Bruins 4-0 and 4-2. Serge Savard outplayed Bobby Orr defensively and outscored him as well.

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Old
07-15-2009, 05:45 PM
  #1010
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Originally Posted by Canadiens1958 View Post
Serge Savard pre two broken legs. Interesting comparison. 1968 and 1969 playoffs, Canadiens beat the Bruins 4-0 and 4-2. Serge Savard outplayed Bobby Orr defensively and outscored him as well.
It was pre-Broken legs, but also Pre-Orr kicking it into high gear as well and in the middle of a few knee operations.

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Old
07-15-2009, 11:35 PM
  #1011
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This won't have to get locked will it? Lots of good info on here....Can it at least remain a sticky?

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Old
07-22-2009, 02:05 PM
  #1012
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Originally Posted by invictus View Post
This won't have to get locked will it? Lots of good info on here....Can it at least remain a sticky?
The voting on the update is starting now (finally compiled everything around my schedule) so once the new list is added I'll put a link to this one in it and ask a mod to lock this one up.

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Old
02-01-2013, 09:53 PM
  #1013
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Rolled over in my grave seeing chelios ahead of guys like scott stevens, jari kurri and al macinnis

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Old
02-01-2013, 10:35 PM
  #1014
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This thread passed the the 1000 post limit but you can comment on either this list or the 2009 update on the stickied thread at the top of this board

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