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01-25-2013, 11:13 AM
  #276
JackBauer
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e) View Post
I agreed with you, except, didn't you contradict yourself in the 2nd part? First you say, take the best player available period (Agree!), then you say we need to take a forward because our system is shallow. Can't have it both ways...
No, people are saying we need a d-man or a centre. I'm saying draft for talent because we could use wingers as well (ie: we're not as stocked there as people think). So I'm saying, yes we need defenders but we also need forwards so just draft BPA and slot them in.

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01-25-2013, 11:19 AM
  #277
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Thanks for the info guys

Mike Richards isn't elite in the sense that he'll put up as many points as Crosby but what makes him elite in my books is the fact that the guy is a bonafide leader/winner. He is outspoken, gritty, delivers big game goals, and just has that "Messier" factor. Crosby is more closer to Gretzky. I personally loved MR in Philly and was rooting for him the whole way in LA. Few players can play like he does in the league. Getzlaf is real close to what a larger Richards would be like however Getzlaf has had a couple bad years.
I think most Sens fans would love to have Mike Richards as a captain and in our top 6. The challenge, is that Mike Richards skill level is still really high - he was a dominant junior scorer. He fell a bit because of his size and skating and also a bit because it was a tremendous draft year, but it is really hard to find a guy with that type of skill level / production, who also has all the intangibles. He basically produced at a comparable level to Monohan in his draft year, but brought a lot more to the table (other than frame). Really hard to find a guy like that beyond the top 10 most of the time. Your main hope is if he was with a really weak team with little support, which brought his numbers down. But once he gets on a decent team with better support, his production takes off. Look for guys who lead their teams in scoring by a decent margin. That is your first indicator they might be better than their numbers suggest.

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01-25-2013, 11:20 AM
  #278
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Originally Posted by JackBauer View Post
No, people are saying we need a d-man or a centre. I'm saying draft for talent because we could use wingers as well (ie: we're not as stocked there as people think). So I'm saying, yes we need defenders but we also need forwards so just draft BPA and slot them in.
Ah, didn't realize the context. I agree, take the best skater in the 1st few rounds, period. Team need can be addressed later on, once the talent all shakes sorts itself out in terms of who busts and booms.

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01-25-2013, 11:21 AM
  #279
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Monohan is more of a Couturier type, really. Given the team passed on Couturier when he was generally regarded as the best available forward on the board, I doubt they go for Monohan if we have a top 10 pick, but you never know. I certainly don't expect us to have a shot at him (nor did I Couturier), so I'd certainly be pleased if we landed him.

But Monohan is not overly physical, although he will take abuse to make a play and doesn't completely shy away from contact. Big frame and pretty strong. But he doesn't have the motor or the "bust through anything" to get to the net attitude that Toews has. But he definitely has top 6 skills.

If you are looking for a Richard's or Landeskog type, I'd say your best bet would be Ryan Hartman. He is fast, physical and definitely raised his game at key times. He is outpacing Noesen and Rackell in Plymouth, despite being quite a bit younger. He had a really good WJC for an underager in bringing home gold for US.

He has been projected late 1st round because most have figured his skill set is more a 2nd-3rd line tweener, but based on his recent play and a longer look by scouts, it's looking more and more like he has legit top 6 potential. A Ryan Callahan type. I'd love for us to land him.

The other guy I'd like late in the 1st is Kerby Rychel. Is a little lower because of his skating, but is the top scorer in Windsor by 10 points, has great goal scoring ability and is tough with leadership qualities.
It wasn't couteriers skill level or style of play. There was loads of talk about consistency and compete level going into the draft and that is why he fell. I doubt if he was the BPA they would pass on him.

Plus a lot of people including myself think Zibanejad was as good or better pick than Couterier. He needs more developement but was also a year younger.He does things offensively I didn't see from Couterier but didn't watch Couts like crazy so maybe a grain of salt is needed. I still it's the better pick right now tbh but would probably have liked Hamilton in retrospect.

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01-25-2013, 12:02 PM
  #280
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It wasn't couteriers skill level or style of play. There was loads of talk about consistency and compete level going into the draft and that is why he fell. I doubt if he was the BPA they would pass on him.

Plus a lot of people including myself think Zibanejad was as good or better pick than Couterier. He needs more developement but was also a year younger.He does things offensively I didn't see from Couterier but didn't watch Couts like crazy so maybe a grain of salt is needed. I still it's the better pick right now tbh but would probably have liked Hamilton in retrospect.
Well, first off, we don't really know the reason. It's not like the team publicly discloses why they dislike a guy. They just say why they liked THEIR guy. But definitely compete level was part of it I'm sure. That and to a lesser extent, skating, are really the only two things that Zibanejad does better than Couturier (for the most part). The Sens basically opted for a high energy project with some scoring upside over a more polished and complete offensive player that was closer to being a finished product. It's a risky move, but you have to believe in your scouts.

And I'm not sure why you think "A lot of people" had Zibanejad ahead of Couturier. It was an off the board pick, not matter how you cut it. Of the 8 or 9 scouting services and rankings out there, absolutely none had Zibanejad ahead of Couturier. Not really even close. In fact, only one that I know of (PuckProspectus) had Z-bad ahead of Hamilton. This doesn't mean some individual scouts saw it that way, of course. Obviously the Sens brass saw it differently.

But in the end, it was the kind of Brian Lee move that made me cringe, albeit from a scouting staff everyone respects (so there is some faith there too). Going off the board in the top 10 of the 1st round though rarely works out. Couturier and Hamilton were by far and away the highest ranked guys on the board - both were supposed to be gone by our pick (Hamilton was iffy I guess), much like when Kopitar and Staal happened to fall to us the year we took Lee. Zibanejad wasn't even ranked in the top 10 by THN, ESPN, Redline and several others, while Couturier was ranked top 5 a half dozen different rankings (Zibanejad none).

I'm not totally crapping on the pick, because the jury is still out. But I have thought a few times about what keeping Couturier, Rundblad and a 2nd rounder would have resulted in, versus Z-bad and Turris. Will make for an interesting look back a few years down the road.

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01-25-2013, 12:24 PM
  #281
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Guys we are picking in the bottom 10, who do you take? If Domi falls that far I will definitely take him or maybe Wennberg from Sweden.

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01-25-2013, 12:29 PM
  #282
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When you see Ottawa play they have a swarming attack when they don't have the puck - Zibby suits this style over Couturier by miles. Couturier is a good and smart player but he is deliberate and doesn't suit the speed and attacking style that Maclean wants.

I think by the end of the season we will see Zibby take JOB spot or be an injury fill in and we will see him add a dimension of speed and size that will make the Sens that much more scary and fast.

We saw L.A. add Nolan and King late last season and it added a whole new dimension of size and character to their team that made their bottom 6 Stanley Cup caliber. I expect Zibby to add a dimension like that to Ottawa once we get closer to the playoffs - Zibby isn't that far away and once he gets healthy and on a roll he'll be awesome when he arrives.

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Old
01-25-2013, 12:32 PM
  #283
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Guys we are picking in the bottom 10, who do you take? If Domi falls that far I will definitely take him or maybe Wennberg from Sweden.
Bottom 10 my pick would definetely be Dickinson as far as forwards go, and Zadarov on D if he's still around.

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01-25-2013, 12:33 PM
  #284
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Zibanejad wasn't necessarily a bad pick, but right now I can't see who would prefer him to Couturier or Hamilton. I wanted Strome as everyone knows, but I still thought that Hamilton would be the best defenceman to come out of the draft and really wanted to grab him after Strome was taken.

Hopefully Zibanejad can fulfil his potential though and make this a non-issue. I think this year Zadarov, Nurse or Ristolainen would be perfect to round out our squad...but someone like Monahan would also be nice.

Basically BPA.

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01-25-2013, 12:57 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e) View Post
Well, first off, we don't really know the reason. It's not like the team publicly discloses why they dislike a guy. They just say why they liked THEIR guy. But definitely compete level was part of it I'm sure. That and to a lesser extent, skating, are really the only two things that Zibanejad does better than Couturier (for the most part). The Sens basically opted for a high energy project with some scoring upside over a more polished and complete offensive player that was closer to being a finished product. It's a risky move, but you have to believe in your scouts.

And I'm not sure why you think "A lot of people" had Zibanejad ahead of Couturier. It was an off the board pick, not matter how you cut it. Of the 8 or 9 scouting services and rankings out there, absolutely none had Zibanejad ahead of Couturier. Not really even close. In fact, only one that I know of (PuckProspectus) had Z-bad ahead of Hamilton. This doesn't mean some individual scouts saw it that way, of course. Obviously the Sens brass saw it differently.

But in the end, it was the kind of Brian Lee move that made me cringe, albeit from a scouting staff everyone respects (so there is some faith there too). Going off the board in the top 10 of the 1st round though rarely works out. Couturier and Hamilton were by far and away the highest ranked guys on the board - both were supposed to be gone by our pick (Hamilton was iffy I guess), much like when Kopitar and Staal happened to fall to us the year we took Lee. Zibanejad wasn't even ranked in the top 10 by THN, ESPN, Redline and several others, while Couturier was ranked top 5 a half dozen different rankings (Zibanejad none).

I'm not totally crapping on the pick, because the jury is still out. But I have thought a few times about what keeping Couturier, Rundblad and a 2nd rounder would have resulted in, versus Z-bad and Turris. Will make for an interesting look back a few years down the road.
I'm not to worried about public rankings like that.

People only focus on the players that are having trouble developing currently, Zibanejad is struggling from serious injuries from last year that lingered into the end of the season when he was braught to the AHL and most likely into this year but not confirmed.

I mean really Noesen was ranked closer to 55-60 but because he is getting better and better no one complains about him being an off the board pick that's an example of what I'm trying to say.

Plus if picks 6 and 7 went Hamilton and Couterier Zbad at 8 would never have been considered an off the board pick so I think you guys are stretching your opinions.

He was also ranked #2 European prospect by NHL central scouting ahead of Brodin and Armia. I mean I hear what your saying but people thinking its off the board it's seriously like 2 spots off.

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01-25-2013, 02:03 PM
  #286
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I'm not to worried about public rankings like that.

People only focus on the players that are having trouble developing currently, Zibanejad is struggling from serious injuries from last year that lingered into the end of the season when he was braught to the AHL and most likely into this year but not confirmed.

I mean really Noesen was ranked closer to 55-60 but because he is getting better and better no one complains about him being an off the board pick that's an example of what I'm trying to say.

Plus if picks 6 and 7 went Hamilton and Couterier Zbad at 8 would never have been considered an off the board pick so I think you guys are stretching your opinions.

He was also ranked #2 European prospect by NHL central scouting ahead of Brodin and Armia. I mean I hear what your saying but people thinking its off the board it's seriously like 2 spots off.
I'm not worried about public opinion either. What you and I think is of little value.

But where other scouting services rank, and even how MacKenzie aggregates scouts opinions, has value. Always has.

And you're right about it not being totally off the board. Couturier's average draft rank was 5th, where as Zibanejad was 9th. Not a couple of picks like you suggest, but not a massive reach either. But most people felt there was a gap after Hamilton /Strome, who were ranked about the same tied for 6th. But there was a notable gap to the next tier of Murphy/ Z-bad / Beaulieu/ Bartschi / Armia etc.

And re Noesen, I was really only talking about going against the grain in the top 10.

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01-25-2013, 02:49 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by Dr.Sens(e) View Post
I'm not worried about public opinion either. What you and I think is of little value.

But where other scouting services rank, and even how MacKenzie aggregates scouts opinions, has value. Always has.

And you're right about it not being totally off the board. Couturier's average draft rank was 5th, where as Zibanejad was 9th. Not a couple of picks like you suggest, but not a massive reach either. But most people felt there was a gap after Hamilton /Strome, who were ranked about the same tied for 6th. But there was a notable gap to the next tier of Murphy/ Z-bad / Beaulieu/ Bartschi / Armia etc.

And re Noesen, I was really only talking about going against the grain in the top 10.
Cool cant say I disagree.

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01-29-2013, 09:37 PM
  #288
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Anyone else seen a bunch of this Alex Wennberg guy? I've been watching some Djurgarden games here:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list..._VjL8XQkoJGPqv

For someone that isn't getting a ton of hype he looks awfully talented. I'm not one of the "build the Swedish machine" thing but he would fit in with our youth group and looks to have the talent that would complement our top 6 fairly well considering how well he's performing in his draft year in a men's league.

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01-29-2013, 10:46 PM
  #289
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Mckenzie reveals his list tomorrow night on TSN. Tune in!

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01-30-2013, 09:27 AM
  #290
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Originally Posted by Cujomi View Post
Anyone else seen a bunch of this Alex Wennberg guy? I've been watching some Djurgarden games here:

http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list..._VjL8XQkoJGPqv

For someone that isn't getting a ton of hype he looks awfully talented. I'm not one of the "build the Swedish machine" thing but he would fit in with our youth group and looks to have the talent that would complement our top 6 fairly well considering how well he's performing in his draft year in a men's league.
He's a skilled and intelligent player with decent speed. Used to have big problems to handle heavy traffic but he has improved that. Not sure how good he can be on a smaller ice though, he's very much a Detroit-style-pick IMO.

Funny goal by him; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yinV_0CJU1Q

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01-31-2013, 02:29 PM
  #291
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http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=9840

Bob's rankings

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01-31-2013, 02:41 PM
  #292
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As a Brandonite, Ryan Pulock has been on the radar for a while. We have a history of drafting from the Wheaties, but I'm not sure if we need another defenseman in the first round. Barring that, my pick would be Kerby Rychel. Top 20 in ability, top 5 pick in name awesomeness.

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01-31-2013, 04:12 PM
  #293
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Damn it Wennberg rose tl #11.

Erne at 16 is amazing, any other draft class and he would be a top 5 pick.

Lazar dropping that low, one team might hit the jackpot with him.

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02-01-2013, 11:52 PM
  #294
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Amazing how much this teams offence revolves around Spezza. Without him long term, a potential downward projectory could be in the cards. We might be a top 10 pick when all is said and done.

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02-04-2013, 08:09 PM
  #295
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Craigs list updated today

http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/feature/?id=49649

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02-04-2013, 08:20 PM
  #296
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I'm not totally crapping on the pick, because the jury is still out. But I have thought a few times about what keeping Couturier, Rundblad and a 2nd rounder would have resulted in, versus Z-bad and Turris. Will make for an interesting look back a few years down the road.
This is a bit older, but I just wanted to say that if taking Couturier (who I would have preferred we take) results in us not trading for Turris, then thank **** we didn't take Couts.

Turris is the real deal. Couts is a very good 2/3 line center who will probably end up putting up Mike Fisher type of numbers... good but not offensive star.

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02-04-2013, 08:46 PM
  #297
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Just seeing how this team performs without Spezza reinforces my belief that he is the most important player on our team along with Anderson. Karlsson is amazing and he may be the best player on the team (debatable) but without him Gonchar, Wierchioch and even Benoit can pick up a bit of the offensive slack from the back end. Nobody on our team is dynamic offensively like Spezza...and unfortunately it doesn't look like we have anyone to replace Spezza coming through the system (unless Da Costa finds a way to translate his game to the NHL even in which case he's more like a Spezza-lite).

What I wouldn't give to somehow get Jonathan Drouin. Honestly the more I watch this kid the more I think he is just a very special talent. More than just a small winger he could be that next offensive catalyst for this team...and he's got the drive to win -- a special kind of competitiveness.

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02-04-2013, 08:51 PM
  #298
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IMO Karlsson is most skilled, Spezza is most important.

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02-04-2013, 09:01 PM
  #299
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Don't think any team would pick Jones ahead of Mackinnon.

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02-04-2013, 09:05 PM
  #300
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Don't think any team would pick Jones ahead of Mackinnon.
I would certainly consider it. Not very often a player like him comes along.

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