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Old
08-19-2012, 03:14 AM
  #301
seventieslord
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ROFL, I found a two-page long passage in Dick Beddoes' Greatest Hockey stories that goes much more in depth about Charlie Conacher's member. I'll post it some time if I'm ever drinking at the computer.

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09-02-2012, 12:39 PM
  #302
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Interesting tidbit about Dolly Swift that I accidentally found in the Gazette:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Montreal Gazette 1/13/1893
"Dolly" Swift, a member of the old Quebec Hockey team, arrived in Montreal yesterday. Although "Dolly" has not had on skates for two years, he will play in to-morrow night's match.
Assuming this phrase wasn't being used rhetorically, it's pretty remarkable that he could step in after two years out of skates and still be effective. He scored 2 of Quebec's 3 goals his first game back and was the only player on the team singled out for effectiveness; he ended up with 11 goals in 8 games that season.

Anyone know why he left the game for 3 seasons?

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09-05-2012, 01:58 PM
  #303
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Seeing as this is on wikipedia it's probably common knowledge, but I found it interesting.

Following game 1 of Dawson City's fated challenge against Ottawa, Norman Watt a player for the Nuggets was quoted as saying "Frank McGee doesn't look like too much."

Of course we know what happened next and 14 goals later we see that even in 1905 it was unwise to light a fire under your opposition's star players.

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09-05-2012, 02:23 PM
  #304
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring Back Scuderi View Post
Seeing as this is on wikipedia it's probably common knowledge, but I found it interesting.

Following game 1 of Dawson City's fated challenge against Ottawa, Norman Watt a player for the Nuggets was quoted as saying "Frank McGee doesn't look like too much."

Of course we know what happened next and 14 goals later we see that even in 1905 it was unwise to light a fire under your opposition's star players.
In my research of Harvey Pulford, Alf Smith, and Billy Gilmour, I found a couple references to Frank McGee being hated by the rest of the team.

I'll have to check if I ever get time to open my laptop again, but i believe it had a lot to do with McGee being from a wealthy family, acted like a spoiled brat, and didn't work hard.

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09-07-2012, 10:47 AM
  #305
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There was a claim that Tommy "Bomber" Williams is one of the top 1200 players of all time. Not only did he receive 0 all star awards (not even a 2nd Team WHA), but as a forward he only scored 430 points in 663 games for a PPG average of less than 2/3 during the 61-76 period which was not a low scoring period in the NHL (he only played 2 full seasons in the WHA). He's a AAA player at best.

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09-07-2012, 11:05 AM
  #306
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Quote:
Originally Posted by God Made Me View Post
There was a claim that Tommy "Bomber" Williams is one of the top 1200 players of all time. Not only did he receive 0 all star awards (not even a 2nd Team WHA), but as a forward he only scored 430 points in 663 games for a PPG average of less than 2/3 during the 61-76 period which was not a low scoring period in the NHL (he only played 2 full seasons in the WHA). He's a AAA player at best.
...and this is dishing the dirt, how?

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11-10-2012, 08:03 PM
  #307
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Posted this in the goalies project but it should be posted here too, because we've talked about the MacLean's list quite a bit:

Apparently the 1925 article in MacLean's magazine selecting Georges Vezina the best goalie of all time up to that point was referring to All-Star teams put together by some serious heavyweights.

From the hockey history site on yahoo:

Quote:
I believe it has been mentioned before that Charlie H. Good compiled
a list in 1925 of the best all-time positional players. Good was the
respected Sporting Editor for the Toronto Daily News until that paper
folded in 1919. Maclean's Magazine asked Good to put a best-of list
together for the March 15th edition. Good, in turn, called upon his
peers in the sports writing fraternity to submit their picks. From
those lists three all-star teams were compile.

1st Team

Goal : Georges Vezina
Defense : Sprague Cleghorn
Defense : Hod Stuart
Centre : Frank Nighbor
Right Wing : Allan "Scotty" Davidson
Left Wing : Tom Phillips


2nd Team

Goal : Percy Lesueur
Defense : Eddie Gerard
Defense : George Boucher
Centre : Russell Bowie
Right Wing : "Babe" Dye
Left Wing : Harry Watson


3rd Team

Goal : Clint Benedict / Hugh Lehman
Defense : Joe Simpson
Defense : Lester Patrick
Centre : Newsy Lalonde
Right Wing : George Richardson
Left Wing : Cyclone Taylor


The participants : Charles H. Good, W. A. Hewitt, Lester Patrick, J.
F. Ahern, Tommy Gorman, W. J. Morrison, Lou Marsh, Bruce Boreham, K.
G. H. McConnell, Roy Halpin, Ross Mackay, Harry Scott, O. F. Young,
Art Ross, Frank Shaughnessey, James T. Sutherland, Bill Tackabery,
Basil O'Meara, Ed. Baker, "Dusty" Rhodes, Walter McMullin, E. W.
Ferguson, Joe Kincaid, and W. A. Boys, M.P.
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group.../message/20402

Note that Benedict's revival with the Maroons would not be included in these rankings as it happened afterwards.

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01-24-2013, 07:19 PM
  #308
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1960s Blackhawks 1 of 3

The 1960s Blackhawks are an enigma - 4 players drafted in the top 42, yet only 1 Stanley Cup in a 6 team league. The following post isn't specifically about why they didn't win as much as should be expected, although it will touch on that. These posts are about the style that team played and how it should perhaps affect our perceptions of their star players.

I started to suspect that the Blackhawks might have been a very favorable environment for their stars to put up points when I was searching for information on their coaches and found that Mikita and Hull's complaints were part of the reason that Rudy Pilous was fired in 1963, not long after coaching the team to their only Cup in forever.

I'm going to focus on passages that address the style of the team, rather than on the personalities of the coaches:

Quote:
No team in the NHL has more individual stars or more temperamental individualists than Chicago. Bobby Hull, year by year, is skating his way into history as one of the game's alltime superstars. Outspoken Stan Mikita, who likes to describe himself as a dirty player, is one of the game's top hustlers. Glenn Hall won the Vezina Trophy as the league's best goalie last year, and Captain Pierre Pilote won a similar award as the top defenseman. Five of the stars chosen by a panel of hockey writers and sportscasters to play in the season-opening all-star game were Black Hawks.

Molding that kind of talent and temperament into a smoothly working unit is not easy, but Reay does it with an easy touch. "He treats us," says Mikita, "like men."

One of the complaints that both Hull and Mikita had last year was that Pilous did not give them enough ice time, a deprivation that cut down their opportunity to score. One of Reay's first changes was to put these high shooters on a schedule that has them skating for 40 minutes of every game. Both of them are now serving not only in their regular lines but as penalty killers and key men. Chicago's players are known for being among the roughest and toughest in the league, but under Reay they seem suddenly to have become also the happiest.
The Rich Bounty Of Mutiny, Sports Illustrated, Dec 2, 1963

Note the implication that Chicago has a group of "temperamental individualists." But to me, the most interesting part is what it says about ice time. I think the 40 minutes per game is probably an exaggeration, but I don't doubt that after Reay took over prior to the 1963-1964 season that he gave Bobby Hull and Stan Mikita significantly more ice time than stars on deeper teams like Montreal or Toronto. We know for a fact that Beliveau, H Richard, and Backstrom were rarely on the ice at the same time, so they almost certainly were getting significantly less ice time than Hull and Mikita.


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01-24-2013, 07:38 PM
  #309
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1960s Blackhawks 2 of 3

Okay, so Hull and Mikita spent a good portion of the 60s seeing more ice time than stars from some other teams. But what style of play did Chicago play?

Mike Farkas first posted the following article on HOH a little while back:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Frederick Daily Leader: May 4, 1971
Only a few years back Bobby Hull was the same dominant force for Chicago that Bobby Orr is now for Boston. The Hawks played hockey only one way. Offense, offense and more offense. But then they finished in the basement two years ago and decided to change their entire style. They became a defensive club and Bobby Hull, the celebrated golden jet, had to change along with them whether he liked it or not.

The change came hard for Hull. "I was used to having the puck all the time, skating with it, and playing 45 minutes of the game," he says. "After the club and I had a little contract difficulties I guess I didn't have the right attitude to begin with. When I came back the team was playing very well defensively. They wanted us wingmen to just go up and down in a straight line and simply watch the guy we were playing against so that they wouldn't do anything against you.

"That's what I did, I started going up and down and watching my guy and I just got into playing the different style of hockey. Oh, every once in a while you like to go back, pick up the puck and go with it, I expect you always have something left that you had before."

Bobby Hull showed everybody he did last Sunday afternoon.

That was the old Bobby Hull out there, not the new one. He was playing offensively, not defensively. He was playing the way he always had for most of the 14 years he has been with the Hawks.

Now with the Montreal Canadiens coming up in the finals, Hull will return to the Hawks' present style of play. That means he'll ne playing defensively again because that figures to be the way all the rest of the Hawks are going to play the Canadiens. Why abandon a successful formula, one that brought you two straight division championships and this far up to now?

Don't become startled though if Bobby Hull suddenly returns to his old way. Particularly if the series goes right down to the wire.

"Every once in awhile you like to go back, pickup the puck and go with it...
The article is crystal clear that Bobby Hull was capable of playing well defensively when asked, but that he usually wasn't asked to. It is also clear that the Hawks were basically a run-and-gun team (at a time when every other team thought defense-first to varying degrees). After a poor showing in 1968-69, they recommited to a more defensively responsible brand of hockey and from 1969-70 to 1972-73, they won 4 consecutive regular season titles.

How does all this affect Hull and Mikita's numbers?

Bobby Hul pointsl

1959-60 NHL 81 (1)
1961-62 NHL 84 (1)
1962-63 NHL 62 (9)

Reay brought in - Chicago stars start seeing massive ice time

1963-64 NHL 87 (2)
1964-65 NHL 71 (4)
1965-66 NHL 97 (1)
1966-67 NHL 80 (2)
1967-68 NHL 75 (6)
1968-69 NHL 107 (2)

Chicago recommits to a more defensively responible version of hockey (Hull is 31 years old)

1970-71 NHL 96 (5)
1971-72 NHL 93 (7)

After in 1972, Hull bolted for the WHA

Bobby Hull goals

1959-60 NHL 39 (1)
1960-61 NHL 31 (5)
1961-62 NHL 50 (1)
1962-63 NHL 31 (6)

Reay brought in - Chicago stars start seeing massive ice time

1963-64 NHL 43 (1)
1964-65 NHL 39 (2)
1965-66 NHL 54 (1)
1966-67 NHL 52 (1)
1967-68 NHL 44 (1)
1968-69 NHL 58 (1)
1969-70 NHL 38 (4)

Chicago recommits to a more defensively responible version of hockey

1970-71 NHL 44 (3)
1971-72 NHL 50 (2)

After in 1972, Hull bolted for the WHA

Mikita points

1961-62 NHL 77 (3)
1962-63 NHL 76 (3)

Reay brought in - Chicago stars start seeing massive ice time

1963-64 NHL 89 (1)
1964-65 NHL 87 (1)
1965-66 NHL 78 (2)
1966-67 NHL 97 (1)
1967-68 NHL 87 (1)
1968-69 NHL 97 (4)
1969-70 NHL 86 (3)

Chicago recommits to a more defensively responible version of hockey (Mikita is 30 years old)

Mikita has no top 10 points finishes after 1970, though he was still a very good player. He was over a point-per-game 4 times in the 70s, but this wasn't enough to be a top 10 scorer. He was, however, 3rd in points per game, while playing 57 games in 1972-73.


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01-24-2013, 08:01 PM
  #310
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1960s Blackhawks 3 of 3

Overpass posted some articles about Sawchuk, Plante, and Hall in the HOH goaltenders project. There is a lot of excellent information about their personalities and styles of goaltending and I would recommend that anyone interested in finding out more about these great three goaltenders read this post: http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...&postcount=340

But here I'm going to focus on the passages that address the Hawks' style as a team and what it meant for Glenn Hall:

Quote:
Close behind Hull in the point parade were his teammates Hay and Mikita. When Hay, Hull, Mikita and the rest of the Hawks are playing as a team, as they have been recently, they are virtually unstoppable. But much of the time, particularly in the early months, they played like five strangers scrambling for the pot in a crap game when the cops walk in. The only thing that has saved them from a fate worse than Boston's during these periods was the virtually impassable fortress in their goal: 30-year-old Glenn Hall, a stoic family man whose major dream is to settle down and raise cattle.

Playing goal for the Chicago Black Hawks is a little like fielding bricks with an eye socket. The big, bruising, fast-skating muscular Hawk forwards are determined to beat the frozen inferno out of any team they can catch; the trouble is they can't always catch them. The result is that while Hawk forwards are milling malignantly around the other fellow's goal looking for somebody to bruise, the other fellow's forwards (particularly if they happen to be the fast-skating Montreal Canadiens) are more than likely at the Chicago end swarming all over Goalie Hall. "Only 10% of goals are the fault of the goalkeeper," he says without rancor. "The rest are the result of mistakes up the ice that let a guy get through to take a shot. The goalkeeper either makes the last mistake or makes the great save that wipes out the other mistakes."

Hall, who leads the league in shutouts with eight scoreless games to his credit, prefers to make the great save—and generally does—even though the effort makes him actively sick.
The above article is quite clear that Chicago's offense-first style predates Reay's arrival as coach.

A Sick Goalie Saves Chicago, Sports Illustrated, March 12, 1962

____________

Quote:
To many observers, of course, the Hawks have had the best team in the NHL for the last five years. After all, they had the top goal-scorer in Hull, the top defenseman in Pierre Pilote, the all-star goalie in Glenn Hall and the best forward line in the Scooters (see cover), a line consisting of Mikita, Kenny Wharram and, during the last three years, Doug Mohns. Yet every March, with the long-awaited championship in sight, the Hawks would collapse. Explanations for this phenomenon have ranged from the mythical Muldoon Jinx—a curse allegedly pronounced by the team's first coach, Pete Muldoon, when he was fired in 1927—to accusations of "choking," but the Hawks tend to explain their past failures in more basic, physical terms.

"There was a simple reason for those late slumps," says Pilote, the 35-year-old team captain. "We always depended too much on a few stars. We had to use them a lot and they got worn out. And when the stars got tired the team faded. This season the load is more evenly distributed, so the stars have stayed strong all year long."
Quote:
It was probably more difficult—and certainly more expensive—to induce Hall to make a comeback. But Ivan did it, and now he has the best and the most unusual goaltending combination of all. Hall, 35, has the perpetually sour expression of a menial office worker who hates his job; actually he is a brilliant hockey player who hates his job. "Enjoy this?" he says. "Are you kidding? I'm around here for one reason and that's the money." He gets sick before each game and occasionally wakes up from naps to find himself kicking out at imaginary flying pucks. But now that he plays only half as much, he is even better than before.
No Foldo in Chicago, March 20, 1967

The above article makes it clear that it's not revisionist history to talk about Chicago's playoff woes, they were well discussed at the time. And more support for the general perception that the Hawks lost in the playoffs because their lack of depth caused them to overplay their stars in the regular season.

I think the stars of Chicago can be somewhat excused for not winning as much in the playoffs as expected, but at the same time, their regular season offensive numbers are probably somewhat inflated from all the additional ice time (and of course, the offensive style they seemed to play).

________________________

If it wasn't clear before that Chicago played an offensive-first style where they often left Glenn Hall out to dry, the following article makes it crystal-clear:

Quote:
What particularly distinguishes Hall's iron-man mark was the quality of his play throughout it. In '55-56 he was NHL rookie of the year. In '60-61 he led the Hawks to an unexpected Stanley Cup championship. During those seven seasons Hall was named to the first or second All-Star team six times—a feat made more amazing by the competition. This was the golden era of the goalie (or the "goolie," as Hall was nicknamed). Five future Hall of Famers were manning the nets in the six-team NHL then: Terry Sawchuk, Johnny Bower, Jacques Plante, Gump Worsley and Hall. "You pretty much saw good goaltending every night," Hall says. "That was one of the great things about the old six-team league. You always wanted to force the guy in the other net to play well."
Quote:
Hall was known as a reflex goalie, one who relied more on quickness of hand and foot than on angles and positioning. Playing most of his career for the run-and-gun Hawks of the Bobby Hull era, he was often left to fend spectacularly for himself. Opponents had no reliable book on how to beat him, except to keep gunning.
In the following passage, Glenn Hall basically calls Bobby Hull a puck hog:

Quote:
Those Hull-Mikita-Hall-led Hawks were a thrilling team to watch, but despite their great talent, they only won the one Stanley Cup, in 1961. Hall believes that the Black Hawks' penchant for the offensive game—and a lust for goal scoring—may have been a factor. "They sacrificed passing the puck for the shot," he says. "Bobby just loved to shoot the puck more than anything."
Scotty Bowman is pretty clear about what he thought about the Hawks' style:

Quote:
"Those Hawk teams never paid much attention to defense," says Scotty Bowman, who coached Hall for four seasons with the St. Louis Blues. "One year Glenn was leading the race for the Vezina Trophy [which in those years went to the goalie who allowed the fewest goals against] by six goals with two games left in the season, and on the plane trip to Toronto all the Black Hawks were talking about was how many goals they needed to make their bonuses. Glenn never said a thing, which he wouldn't, knowing him. So Chicago ends up getting in a couple of shoot-outs, and Glenn lost the Vezina on the last day of the season. It tells you how well Glenn had to have played all season to even have been close."
Bowman was not a fan of offensive hockey, and ended up being Hall's coach later on in St. Louis, so it's possible that he had an interest in pimping his ex-player. Even so, I don't think his story leaves much room for doubt as to the mentality of the Chicago team.

All this from a SI profile of Glenn Hall:

The Iron Man of the Ice, Oct 27, 1992


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01-31-2013, 07:23 AM
  #311
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An interesting article I found on Frank Nighbor whilst researching Eddie Shore.

http://news.google.com/newspapers?id...e+hockey&hl=en

The Ottawa Citizen - December 30, 1927:

Quote:
Peerless Frank Nighbor

Elmer Ferguson in the Montreal Herald devotes considerable space in eulogizing Frank Nighbor, Ottawa's peerless center ice player, but it was not ever thus. Fergy intimates that this famous star is at his best only on Ottawa ice or on a surface no larger than that of the local Auditorium. This, of course, is only a matter of opinion, and after all, there are no ice surfaces in the national hockey league much larger than in this city.

Frank Nighbor has played wonderful hockey on every rink in the circuit, but like all athletes, he has not always been at his best, having off nights the same as all other players have. If there has been an outstanding player in hockey, that player is Frank Nighbor. His equal for all-around play has not yet appeared, regardless of the fact that until the last season or two he was not given the support by officials due a player of his sterling qualities.

Abandoning all hope of getting the protection from referees that his sportsmanlike style of hockey entitled him to, Nighbor began protecting himself, and he has shown that he can do that about as well as the next one. Greatly to the credit of Frank Nighbor, it can be said that in fifteen years of hockey, he was never charged with deliberately fouling an opponent. He has been a credit to Pembroke, the town where he broke into the game, to Ottawa, the city that he represented in big time hockey for twelve years, and to the national hockey league, as well as to Canada.
Some interesting stuff there. We have the old familiar rink size debate, which the Ottawa writer finds silly, and an intimation that Nighbor became tougher and more physical later in his career out of necessity, but remained gentlemanly and played within the rules.

The statement that "his equal for all-around play has not yet appeared" is interesting given the context. Howie Morenz was already an established star in the NHL, although at the time this article was written, he was just beginning his first true high-peak season. I wonder what the author would have said on the subject five years later? We'll never know.

This reminds us, though, that the moniker "Peerless Frank" is a rather special sort of nickname. It seems to have been an early version of Gretzky's "The Great One" nickname - a way of stating that one player is head and shoulders above the rest. As much as we have revised our opinions on Frank Nighbor, I wonder if we do not underrate him still. He was quite clearly the titan of hockey's first 40 years.


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01-31-2013, 06:44 PM
  #312
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i mentioned that comment by elmer ferguson when i had nighbor. overpass posted a diagram of ottawa's unusual rink, which helped their defensive style of play.

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02-01-2013, 10:11 PM
  #313
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sturminator View Post
This reminds us, though, that the moniker "Peerless Frank" is a rather special sort of nickname. It seems to have been an early version of Gretzky's "The Great One" nickname - a way of stating that one player is head and shoulders above the rest. As much as we have revised our opinions on Frank Nighbor, I wonder if we do not underrate him still. He was quite clearly the titan of hockey's first 40 years.
I agree that Nighbor may still be underrated here. Nighbor was the second pick on my board in ATD 2011 at pick 30 and he was the second pick on my board here at pick 25.

It's funny because he's almost certainly rated more highly here than anywhere else in 2012. Ottawa really fell off the hockey map after the Senators left, and at some point Nighbor had no supporters left to remind people how great he was.

The 1927-28 all-star voting by managers is interesting. I posted it here some time ago. Three managers* put Frank Nighbor at centre of their first all-star team - this after a season in which he had scored 13 points at the age of 35. Howie Morenz was obviously the best forward in the league, as he won the scoring race by over 25% and received the other seven first-team votes at centre.

What were these three managers thinking, putting Nighbor at centre? All three of them put Morenz at LW of their first team all-star team. It seems that these managers were selecting their all-star team with a focus on team, and were putting together the best six-player unit. And they thought a 35-year-old Frank Nighbor, who was the lowest scoring regular on his team, was still the player to centre that unit. Morenz could play on his wing.

*The ten managers were Cecil Hart, Eddie Gerard, Dave Gill, Connie Smythe, Shorty Green, Art Ross, Lester Patrick, Jack Adams, Odie Cleghorn, Hugh Lehman.

Edit: Given the discussion over Hooley Smith's effectiveness at RW it's interesting to see that two managers picked him over Bill Cook for their first team RW in 1927-28. The article says "Though playing center after after Eddie Gerard shook up his lineup, Smith, christened Reginald J., is really a right winger and there he is on the all-star six."


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02-02-2013, 12:04 AM
  #314
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I just noticed this while trying to find what Elmer Ferguson would have thought of Morenz vs. Nighbor, and it's kind of eerie having known what happened to Morenz in the end:

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Montreal Canadiens: 100 Years of Glory By D'Arcy Jenish
[Morenz] impressed the sportswriters from the start, none more so than Elmer Ferguson of the Montreal Herald. Three games into the season, Ferguson wrote: "Here's the best-looking youngster who has broken into the NHL in quite some time. If he isn't a star of the first magnitude before the season's over, it'll be because he's lost a leg.
Really, really creepy considering how Morenz died from a leg injury suffered in a game.

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02-02-2013, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by vecens24 View Post
I just noticed this while trying to find what Elmer Ferguson would have thought of Morenz vs. Nighbor, and it's kind of eerie having known what happened to Morenz in the end:

Really, really creepy considering how Morenz died from a leg injury suffered in a game.
that is an odd coincidence.

i think elmer ferguson thought morenz was better. i remember reading something in ottawa citizen that cited ferguson's opinion on morenz and nighbor and then slightly mocked it, similar to the piece sturm cited.

ferguson wrote for montreal herald, which is not on google newspapers, so his writing is hard to find, but i have seen him cited a couple of times in ottawa citizen and montreal gazette.

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02-02-2013, 01:12 AM
  #316
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Quote:
Originally Posted by overpass View Post
I agree that Nighbor may still be underrated here. Nighbor was the second pick on my board in ATD 2011 at pick 30 and he was the second pick on my board here at pick 25.

It's funny because he's almost certainly rated more highly here than anywhere else in 2012. Ottawa really fell off the hockey map after the Senators left, and at some point Nighbor had no supporters left to remind people how great he was.

The 1927-28 all-star voting by managers is interesting. I posted it here some time ago. Three managers* put Frank Nighbor at centre of their first all-star team - this after a season in which he had scored 13 points at the age of 35. Howie Morenz was obviously the best forward in the league, as he won the scoring race by over 25% and received the other seven first-team votes at centre.

What were these three managers thinking, putting Nighbor at centre? All three of them put Morenz at LW of their first team all-star team. It seems that these managers were selecting their all-star team with a focus on team, and were putting together the best six-player unit. And they thought a 35-year-old Frank Nighbor, who was the lowest scoring regular on his team, was still the player to centre that unit. Morenz could play on his wing.

*The ten managers were Cecil Hart, Eddie Gerard, Dave Gill, Connie Smythe, Shorty Green, Art Ross, Lester Patrick, Jack Adams, Odie Cleghorn, Hugh Lehman.

Edit: Given the discussion over Hooley Smith's effectiveness at RW it's interesting to see that two managers picked him over Bill Cook for their first team RW in 1927-28. The article says "Though playing center after after Eddie Gerard shook up his lineup, Smith, christened Reginald J., is really a right winger and there he is on the all-star six."
That's very interesting information. Lots of good stuff in there. The managers ultimately didn't have Smith on their all-star team, but they did think something of him at RW. I like the bit about Ching being a "fast albeit clumsy skater". I hadn't known that.

Yes, the lack of a persistent media machine in Ottawa has not been good for the reputation of the old-time Sens. We have corrected many distortions about that team over the course of this project, but it has been a lot of work. I really wonder what Nighbor's reputation would be if he'd played in Montreal.

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02-02-2013, 01:21 AM
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That's very interesting information. Lots of good stuff in there. The managers ultimately didn't have Smith on their all-star team, but they did think something of him at RW. I like the bit about Ching being a "fast albeit clumsy skater". I hadn't known that.

Yes, the lack of a persistent media machine in Ottawa has not been good for the reputation of the old-time Sens. We have corrected many distortions about that team over the course of this project, but it has been a lot of work. I really wonder what Nighbor's reputation would be if he'd played in Montreal.
That's not the only reference I have seen to Ching Johnson being a good skater - Howie Morenz called him that in a retrospective that was published in a book I posted a little while back.

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02-02-2013, 11:32 AM
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That's not the only reference I have seen to Ching Johnson being a good skater - Howie Morenz called him that in a retrospective that was published in a book I posted a little while back.
Strange...the newspaper calls him fast but clumsy and Morenz calls hims husky and agile. Agile and clumsy are pretty much opposites...maybe he's one of those guys that has a clumsy looking skating style that is still very effective?

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02-02-2013, 11:58 AM
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Under modern voting standards, Hookey Smith was a second team all-star that year. He got two 1st team votes and one 2nd team vote. That lost to a player with zero 1st team votes and three 2nd team votes

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02-02-2013, 11:02 PM
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Poll done with 1934 all-star voting asking for fastest skater, best line, best stick handler and leading box-office attraction.

Morenz Tops Speed List - Saskatoon Star-Phoenix, Mar 13, 1934

I've seen this for other seasons, but haven't saved the links. I recall one of the questions was best story in another season.

The NHL also had actual annual speed contests with players circling the rink with the puck.

---

Save percentages and shooting percentages 1928-29 season.

Worters and Roach Lead Goalie Aces - Providence News, Jan 28, 1929

I've seen the sv% for goalies posted before, but don't remember shooting percentages being mentioned.

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02-02-2013, 11:18 PM
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Interesting that Shore was a big draw than Morenz.

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02-13-2013, 01:03 PM
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Wasn't sure where to stick this...or if it's of any real value, just came across it when I stopped in at the library today...

Neglected to write down the title of the book, I think it was "Twenty Years of Hockey: 1967-1987" or some such. By Diamond and Stubbs. I flipped through it and came across a "1967-1987 All-Star Team" with minimal explanation, but here it is regardless...

Again, All-Star Team based on play from 1967-1987.

First Team:
LW: V.Kharlamov, A.Yakushev, Bo.Hull, M.Messier
C: W.Gretzky, T.Esposito, M.Dionne, B.Trottier
RW: G.Lafleur, S.Makarov, M.Bossy, J.Kurri
D: B.Orr, D.Potvin, L.Robinson, V.Fetisov, B.Park, M.Howe
G: V.Tretiak, K.Dryden

"Defensive specialists": B.Gainey, D.Jarvis, B.Goring, G.Carbonneau, J.Schoenfeld

Coach: A.Arbour
GM: S.Pollack
-----------
Second Team:
LW: F.Mahovlich, V.Krutov, B.Barber, M.Goulet
C: B.Clarke, P.Stastny, D.Savard, M.Lemieux
RW: L.McDonald, R.Middleton, Y.Cournoyer, G.Howe
D: P.Coffey, R.Langway, R.Bourque, B.Salming, S.Savard, D.Wilson
G: B.Parent, T.Esposito

"Defensive specialists": C.Ramsay, D.Luce, E.Westfall, J.Watson, L.Fogolin

Coach: S.Bowman
GM: B.Torrey

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02-16-2013, 08:03 AM
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I see talk of Frank Boucher and when/where he learned the hook check at the end of the last draft thread.

Is it somehow going unnoticed that Boucher grew up in Ottawa and actually played for the Senators during the 1921-22 season?

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02-16-2013, 08:15 AM
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I see talk of Frank Boucher and when/where he learned the hook check at the end of the last draft thread.

Is it somehow going unnoticed that Boucher grew up in Ottawa and actually played for the Senators during the 1921-22 season?
Yeah, that occured to me, as well. There's a good chance that Boucher at least learned the basics right from the source. One thing that interests me is Hooley Smith, who played for Ottawa, but was evidently already a fine hook-checker when he was playing for the Granites. Being from Toronto, it's not clear to me where Smith would have picked up the art as a junior/senior league player.

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02-16-2013, 08:52 AM
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Yeah, that occured to me, as well. There's a good chance that Boucher at least learned the basics right from the source. One thing that interests me is Hooley Smith, who played for Ottawa, but was evidently already a fine hook-checker when he was playing for the Granites. Being from Toronto, it's not clear to me where Smith would have picked up the art as a junior/senior league player.
Any evidence that Frank Rankin, Hooley's coach with the Granites, was a hook checker? He certainly would have been exposed to Nighbor and Walker during their Toronto days.

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