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Has Gagner proven to you to be a legit 2C?

View Poll Results: Is Gagner a legit 2C
Yes proven 2C keep him 184 67.40%
Yes proven 2C trade him 44 16.12%
No not a proven 2C 45 16.48%
Voters: 273. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
02-01-2013, 09:39 PM
  #26
tiger_80
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Unless he really falls off the cliff, they should re-sign him. I think a 5-6 year deal in the 4-4.5M range would be fair.
I think Hemsky is the one who draws a short straw at this time. Replace Hemsky with a bigger grittier top 6 forward (centre or winger) to play with Yakupov-Gagner and the 2nd line should be set.

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Old
02-01-2013, 09:40 PM
  #27
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Gagner was -2 for the SJ game. I would like to see EDM move Hemsky as it seems he is just not fitting in on the 2nd line with Gagner and Yak. Give Harti a chance as long as he keeps using his size.

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Old
02-01-2013, 09:44 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rockinghockey View Post
Gagner was -2 for the SJ game. I would like to see EDM move Hemsky as it seems he is just not fitting in on the 2nd line with Gagner and Yak. Give Harti a chance as long as he keeps using his size.
Not a bad idea.

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Old
02-01-2013, 09:44 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
Gagner already was a #2 center. Now he's proving he can be a very good one.
Yeah if you look at who passes as a 2nd line center these days, saying he is not a legit #2 is ridiculous. I dont know what people expect. He is 23 and will be a consistent 50+ point guy. Maybe even 65+ points considering who he will be playing with.

Obviously if we can get someone like Hanzal for him, I wouldn't feel too bad about him leaving. However trading him for the sake of trading him is beyond stupid.

We finally have 2 good scoring lines. If we trade Gagner now, it had better be for a better C. Who is available?

Exactly

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Old
02-01-2013, 09:49 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by supert View Post
Yes ,he starts picking it up in Jan . Oh it is already Feb . Lets wait and see if he breaks out and continue to play this way all year .
Here a question for you what about trading Yak ? He been clutch for us , But on the Main Board CBJ are looking for a pure goal scorer . Would anyone consider moving him for CBJ first and something else ? Maybe we draft that big center then
Posts like this are the reason I hate checking these boards

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Old
02-01-2013, 09:55 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joey Moss View Post
Gagner already was a #2 center. Now he's proving he can be a very good one.
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Originally Posted by TennisBalls View Post
Instead of replacing Gagner with a big #2 centre like many people have been saying. I would look to getting a big gritty guy in place of Hemsky.
These two posts pretty much sum up what I've felt for quite some time. He is not very strong defensively or in faceoffs, but I think he works very well as a #2C. He's looked phenomenal so far this season too in the offensive zone. Very physical, and gritty in front of the net. Love it.

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Old
02-01-2013, 10:00 PM
  #32
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There are some nice free agents wingers this year, though not sure the Oilers are in a good position to go after any of these guys:

Perry
Iginla
Semin
Morrow
Clowe
Horton

Horton is the one I am most interested in. Others are either a bit too old (Morrow, Iginla) or will command a lot of money (Perry, Semin).

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Old
02-01-2013, 10:05 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by supert View Post
Yes ,he starts picking it up in Jan . Oh it is already Feb . Lets wait and see if he breaks out and continue to play this way all year .
Here a question for you what about trading Yak ? He been clutch for us , But on the Main Board CBJ are looking for a pure goal scorer . Would anyone consider moving him for CBJ first and something else ? Maybe we draft that big center then
There is nothing the CBJ have that I'd even consider trading Yakupov for.

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Old
02-01-2013, 10:13 PM
  #34
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the problem isnt with gagner as an individual, its our top-6 as a whole is very small...one change (hemsky) may not be enough.

at the same time those type of players are very hard to find, esp centers...so we keep him unless we can somehow actually manage to upgrade on him...which seems unlikely.

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Old
02-01-2013, 10:24 PM
  #35
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Sam Gagners evolution has been textbook in the NHL, he came in a a highly touted offensive star, was allowed to use that skill for a year and a half, then was abruptly put into defensive learning mode which he has just emerged from this year as a well rounded two way NHL centerman.

I see him a statisticly being our #1 centerman right now and have no reason to believe this will change all year long. Nuge will need to really find ways to help his line produce within Ralphs system of play as this is where Gagner is excelling and will continue to excel. Eihter we allow the system to compliment the elite players or we allow the system to collar their individual special dimensions and seek player parity systemwise. So far the system itself has collared this talent, the defense has been nice to see but this has nothing to do with catalysing the offense. Our current system neglects dynamic cohesion in terms of line structure and personel matchups.

Sam Gagner has had to adjust to Hemskys game and style , it is working to some degree but nowhere near as well as Gagner could produce linewide offense if he had Hall instead of Hemmer making zone entrys. Sam is the anchor and needs to catalyse the lines offense for 60 mins. Same with Nuge, he is also a 3 dimensional thinking player who needs to be the catalyst of his line, in other words both men need their linemates to do consistant predictable things on the ice so they can use their creativivty and vision to catalyse offense by breaking the opponents system. They need to be setting up the coup de gras every night not always executing the coup de gras but always catalysing it.

Sam isnt 2nd line center material as he is a 3D thinker and has the capability of running a 1st line dynamicly at the NHL level. Gagner will push for the team points lead for the rest of his career if he is in the top 6, its that simple. Our biggest problem is already deciding if we shouls push Hemmer and gagner up to the first line and drop RNH and a winger down to the 2nd with Yakupov, RNH might have more chemistry in this dynamic, the wingers mean little outside of Hemmer they are all two dimensional and can be inserted anywhere in the top 6 with predictible results.

Sam Gagner and Ryan Nugent Hopkins are 3D visual thnkers who see the ice differently than their teammates do, they are our two top 6 line catalysts we need to be relying on to guide us into the future. Hemsky is also a line catalyst capable of anchoring an NHL top 6 line but on this team he is better suited for a 3rd line role , this is because the rest of our top 6 are all 2 and 3D thinkers and players who dont need to adjust or change their games to execute together this way. Hemmer is elite but he forces his entire line to adjust so he can play this way, with the exception of the last game where he was going to the tough spots and drawing coverage by going into the shoting lanes and areas, this opened up the ice for his line a bit more than usual and if he continues to do this and can get Sam and Yak both scoring he may prove he can be more 2 dimensional. We still need Hemmers scoring on the 3rd line and this is a coaching error period. Our recent sucess is nice to see but does not preclude constructive observations.

Sam Gagner should be wearing the C this year in my opinion and he is going to make the Oilers pay dearly for his services next contract, they will regret not tieing him up long term, you see we wont be able to just trade and replace him because of how he thinks and sees the ice now that he has evolved. After he carries the 2nd line and the team this year and into the playoffs it will take a real idiot to even whisper Sam Gagners name in a negative way as has been done here in Edmonton for far to long.

The Oilers organisation has proven that you can take an offensive player who is very young and play him in the NHL early and often and still evolve him into a two-way player, a completely well rounded two-way NHL player with NHL caliber upside. Now that Sam has obviously taken the next step and evolved as an over a PPG NHL two-way offensively capable centerman the Oilers need to support him as he continues his offensive and leadership evolution. We wont see Sams ceiling till the end of next year. Sam has never regressed in his entire career, once he establishes himself as a PPG NHL player as he has done this year he will maintain that for the rest of his career. I challenge anyone to put Sam in the top line, he can effectively provide gamechanging offense from both the 1st and 2nd lines because of how he generates it, once Nuge figures out what Sam knows now he will eclipse Sammys numbers but it wont be a slight on Gagner because I see 120 pts from Nuge within 3 yrs. Silent Sam had to "learn" to be a 3 dimensional thinker on the ice and it is what catalysed the final phase of the evolution we are now seeing from him into a two-way offensive threat for 60 mins, Sam recently altered the way he sees the game in some huge core value areas and it changed his game permanently. Nuge was born with this ability to see the ice 3 dimensionally, he didnt have to feel his way towards it, he just woke up with it on day one-- rumor has it he deked his way out into the world on his first birthday before his mom even knew what was happening and then went high glove side before the doctor trying to help out could get the assist, he probably had the cookie jar delivered to him instead of dragging a chair up to the cupboard to get it down when he was a wee kid.

Sam Gagner will show us all what he is worth at his age with his resume when he renegotiates his contract, and trust me we will not get off easy, and quite seriously when we realise this year that he is the catalyst of the 2nd lines gamebreaking offense we will be in a poor negotiating position for sure, if Sam puts up a few 5 or 6 point nights and maintains a PPG pace this year which is highly likely can you imagine how his resume will look?

Sam Gagner is a core player on this team and will carry us to more than one Cup if we follow him and the rest of these young developing leaders. My final word concerning Sam Gagners role on this team will always be this-- only Wayne Gretzky could have grabbed the moment and taken a lineup full of first round top ten picks and catalysed their minds and emotions as he dissected an NHL team for 8 points, that epic on-ice example of leadership and class was historic and firmly established a record setting bar of performance for a group of the games best young studs to reach for, and that bar was set right before their very eyes while they were on the ice being a part of it, absolutely classic. Just try to tell me these guys like Hall and Ebbs and Nuge and Schultz and Yakupov do not trust Sams abilitys and heart, these guys will already follow him into the fire in a playoff series because in their minds and hearts will forever be burned the truth and reality of the feelings they experienced with Sam that big night. And he doesnt have the C already? I think Horcs is holding it for Silent Sam and that Ebbs and Hallsy might be As for a lot longer then they might anticipate after this years playoff run and Sammys performance. All Gagners ever asked for or needed is a chance and he delivers every single time, hes like the Mailman he always delivers one way or another he finds a way to get the job done.


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Old
02-01-2013, 10:28 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koto View Post
the problem isnt with gagner as an individual, its our top-6 as a whole is very small...one change (hemsky) may not be enough.

at the same time those type of players are very hard to find, esp centers...so we keep him unless we can somehow actually manage to upgrade on him...which seems unlikely.

Best post in the thread. Gagner is doing great, and by doing so his trade value goes up.
IMO you upgrade on Hemsky first with a bigger body, then re-evaluate and if you get the opportunity to upgrade on Gagner with a #2C with size you likely do it.

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02-01-2013, 10:57 PM
  #37
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1422 words of BadMedicine. Thanks for putting it in paragraph form this time however.

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02-01-2013, 11:21 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by blueracer17 View Post
1422 words of BadMedicine. Thanks for putting it in paragraph form this time however.
You are welcome, I also worked on the spaceing after punctuation as requested.

Sorry about the length, but on the upside so many people visit these threads on this site that the post counts rocket up so fast its not so bad because you are scrolling like mad anyways due to overall post numbers. I shall try to contain my Oilersmania and abbreviate.

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02-01-2013, 11:22 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by BadMedicine View Post
You are welcome, I also worked on the spaceing after punctuation as requested.

Sorry about the length, but on the upside so many people visit these threads on this site that the post counts rocket up so fast its not so bad because you are scrolling like mad anyways due to overall post numbers. I shall try to contain my Oilersmania and abbreviate.
Well done on that post. I like it a lot.

Sums up what I think Gagner is.

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Old
02-01-2013, 11:26 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by gooilgo View Post
Best post in the thread. Gagner is doing great, and by doing so his trade value goes up.
IMO you upgrade on Hemsky first with a bigger body, then re-evaluate and if you get the opportunity to upgrade on Gagner with a #2C with size you likely do it.
pretty much this. only move him if you can get a Zach Kassian back. I still say Tambo was sleeping when that trade was going down. is Cody Hodgesen better or more proven than Gagner? Kassian would have been the perfect player for the Oil.

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02-01-2013, 11:32 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by BadMedicine View Post
Sam Gagners evolution has been textbook in the NHL, he came in a a highly touted offensive star, was allowed to use that skill for a year and a half, then was abruptly put into defensive learning mode which he has just emerged from this year as a well rounded two way NHL centerman.

I see him a statisticly being our #1 centerman right now and have no reason to believe this will change all year long. Nuge will need to really find ways to help his line produce within Ralphs system of play as this is where Gagner is excelling and will continue to excel. Eihter we allow the system to compliment the elite players or we allow the system to collar their individual special dimensions and seek player parity systemwise. So far the system itself has collared this talent, the defense has been nice to see but this has nothing to do with catalysing the offense. Our current system neglects dynamic cohesion in terms of line structure and personel matchups.

Sam Gagner has had to adjust to Hemskys game and style , it is working to some degree but nowhere near as well as Gagner could produce linewide offense if he had Hall instead of Hemmer making zone entrys. Sam is the anchor and needs to catalyse the lines offense for 60 mins. Same with Nuge, he is also a 3 dimensional thinking player who needs to be the catalyst of his line, in other words both men need their linemates to do consistant predictable things on the ice so they can use their creativivty and vision to catalyse offense by breaking the opponents system. They need to be setting up the coup de gras every night not always executing the coup de gras but always catalysing it.

Sam isnt 2nd line center material as he is a 3D thinker and has the capability of running a 1st line dynamicly at the NHL level. Gagner will push for the team points lead for the rest of his career if he is in the top 6, its that simple. Our biggest problem is already deciding if we shouls push Hemmer and gagner up to the first line and drop RNH and a winger down to the 2nd with Yakupov, RNH might have more chemistry in this dynamic, the wingers mean little outside of Hemmer they are all two dimensional and can be inserted anywhere in the top 6 with predictible results.

Sam Gagner and Ryan Nugent Hopkins are 3D visual thnkers who see the ice differently than their teammates do, they are our two top 6 line catalysts we need to be relying on to guide us into the future. Hemsky is also a line catalyst capable of anchoring an NHL top 6 line but on this team he is better suited for a 3rd line role , this is because the rest of our top 6 are all 2 and 3D thinkers and players who dont need to adjust or change their games to execute together this way. Hemmer is elite but he forces his entire line to adjust so he can play this way, with the exception of the last game where he was going to the tough spots and drawing coverage by going into the shoting lanes and areas, this opened up the ice for his line a bit more than usual and if he continues to do this and can get Sam and Yak both scoring he may prove he can be more 2 dimensional. We still need Hemmers scoring on the 3rd line and this is a coaching error period. Our recent sucess is nice to see but does not preclude constructive observations.

Sam Gagner should be wearing the C this year in my opinion and he is going to make the Oilers pay dearly for his services next contract, they will regret not tieing him up long term, you see we wont be able to just trade and replace him because of how he thinks and sees the ice now that he has evolved. After he carries the 2nd line and the team this year and into the playoffs it will take a real idiot to even whisper Sam Gagners name in a negative way as has been done here in Edmonton for far to long.

The Oilers organisation has proven that you can take an offensive player who is very young and play him in the NHL early and often and still evolve him into a two-way player, a completely well rounded two-way NHL player with NHL caliber upside. Now that Sam has obviously taken the next step and evolved as an over a PPG NHL two-way offensively capable centerman the Oilers need to support him as he continues his offensive and leadership evolution. We wont see Sams ceiling till the end of next year. Sam has never regressed in his entire career, once he establishes himself as a PPG NHL player as he has done this year he will maintain that for the rest of his career. I challenge anyone to put Sam in the top line, he can effectively provide gamechanging offense from both the 1st and 2nd lines because of how he generates it, once Nuge figures out what Sam knows now he will eclipse Sammys numbers but it wont be a slight on Gagner because I see 120 pts from Nuge within 3 yrs. Silent Sam had to "learn" to be a 3 dimensional thinker on the ice and it is what catalysed the final phase of the evolution we are now seeing from him into a two-way offensive threat for 60 mins, Sam recently altered the way he sees the game in some huge core value areas and it changed his game permanently. Nuge was born with this ability to see the ice 3 dimensionally, he didnt have to feel his way towards it, he just woke up with it on day one-- rumor has it he deked his way out into the world on his first birthday before his mom even knew what was happening and then went high glove side before the doctor trying to help out could get the assist, he probably had the cookie jar delivered to him instead of dragging a chair up to the cupboard to get it down when he was a wee kid.

Sam Gagner will show us all what he is worth at his age with his resume when he renegotiates his contract, and trust me we will not get off easy, and quite seriously when we realise this year that he is the catalyst of the 2nd lines gamebreaking offense we will be in a poor negotiating position for sure, if Sam puts up a few 5 or 6 point nights and maintains a PPG pace this year which is highly likely can you imagine how his resume will look?

Sam Gagner is a core player on this team and will carry us to more than one Cup if we follow him and the rest of these young developing leaders. My final word concerning Sam Gagners role on this team will always be this-- only Wayne Gretzky could have grabbed the moment and taken a lineup full of first round top ten picks and catalysed their minds and emotions as he dissected an NHL team for 8 points, that epic on-ice example of leadership and class was historic and firmly established a record setting bar of performance for a group of the games best young studs to reach for, and that bar was set right before their very eyes while they were on the ice being a part of it, absolutely classic. Just try to tell me these guys like Hall and Ebbs and Nuge and Schultz and Yakupov do not trust Sams abilitys and heart, these guys will already follow him into the fire in a playoff series because in their minds and hearts will forever be burned the truth and reality of the feelings they experienced with Sam that big night. And he doesnt have the C already? I think Horcs is holding it for Silent Sam and that Ebbs and Hallsy might be As for a lot longer then they might anticipate after this years playoff run and Sammys performance. All Gagners ever asked for or needed is a chance and he delivers every single time, hes like the Mailman he always delivers one way or another he finds a way to get the job done.
Are you young Samwise himself? Or his agent?

Your post is a massive collection of biased fantasy.

Sam is having a good start to the season and is starting to look like we all hoped he would. But saying sunshine is comming out his arse every time he farts is a bit much.

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02-01-2013, 11:39 PM
  #42
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Gagner has always been a decent #2C. However, he's playing like a legit #2C with a well rounded game. Their are several problems though, the ever so present Is he a good fit question and the value of his next contract will skyrocket if he maintains this level of play like into the $5 mil/yr range possibly.

Can we afford to pay a smallish center that amount of coin and sign all of RNH, Smid, Schultz, Yakupov and Petry and still build a solid supporting cast? If Gagner continues to prove his worth throughout the season, Tambellini has a real difficult decision to make because i'm pretty sure that Gagner will want a lucrative long term deal.

In any event, i'm glad for him that he has found his game. He has always been a good trooper through the tough times so it's good to see him reap some of the fruits of his labor. Lets see if he can remain consistent throughout the season, maintaining consistency has always been his problem

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02-02-2013, 12:03 AM
  #43
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The question is how long can he keep it up, Gagner usually goes in spurts, IMO he has to be consistent to be a 2nd line C.
If he's consistent at this level, he's a legit number 1 center. Most 2nd line centers are 2nd line exactly because they are streaky. Sometimes showing the skill and production of a first liner, other times, not.

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02-02-2013, 12:04 AM
  #44
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I'm happy with all of our top 6 forwards. I think in an ideal world you don't get rid of any of them. But rather you find guys who right now might not be top 6 forwards but are strong 3rd liners who can step into a top 6 role given the opportunity.

If you simply replace a Gagner/Hemsky with someone bigger you are still faced with the problem of not having any depth outside of your top 6 and not having anyone capable of stepping in in the case of injuries (like we are in right now).

The Clarksons/Hortons/Clowe's ect would all be great, but they are all going to command big money which the Oilers wont be able to afford. We need to find these guys before they are going to command the 4-5 million bucks.

Hopefully Hartikainen can turn into one.

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02-02-2013, 12:16 AM
  #45
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IMO the offense is there, whether or not the defense, decision making, and strength is there is the question. That said I am not nearly as down on him as I have been in recent years so he must be doing something right

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02-02-2013, 12:22 AM
  #46
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I'm finding it quite funny how Gags is suddenly getting all this love from some people. Be funny to do a side by side comparison of this year and previous years

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02-02-2013, 12:39 AM
  #47
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I'm finding it quite funny how Gags is suddenly getting all this love from some people. Be funny to do a side by side comparison of this year and previous years
Probably because he has actually EARNED the praise this season. He looks like a completely different player to the point of even his biggest detractors heaping praise on him. With that being said, it's only 7 games. Lets hope that he continues to build on this.

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02-02-2013, 01:37 AM
  #48
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I'm finding it quite funny how Gags is suddenly getting all this love from some people. Be funny to do a side by side comparison of this year and previous years
What's funny about some people admitting they were wrong? I wasn't a Gagner fan last year but now he's showing he can play a game that helps the team and maybe I was wrong about him being incapable of 2C duties.

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02-02-2013, 02:33 AM
  #49
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Probably because he has actually EARNED the praise this season. He looks like a completely different player to the point of even his biggest detractors heaping praise on him. With that being said, it's only 7 games. Lets hope that he continues to build on this.
He was good LAST YEAR. He started the preseason flying, got a bad high ankle sprain and then had to play wing with our two worst offensive players Belanger and MPS for a good portion of the season. He finally gets to play top 6 and his numbers for the rest of the year were definitely those of a top 6 center. Plus like others noted his defensive play last year was much improved, his zone reads and backchecks were the reason he was +5 on a terrible club last year.

He was worth taking a risk on his contract last summer. I understand why he was signed for one year 3.2 million but if you could have gotten him for 4 years at 4 million dollar it should have been done (although I'm guessing Gagner wasn't too eager about that deal).

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02-02-2013, 03:10 AM
  #50
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So funny. Gagner totally reminds me of Mike Comrie.

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