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Old
01-30-2013, 11:51 AM
  #26
GoneFullHextall
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Originally Posted by Ciccio1980 View Post
If Phaneuf is overrated your defence is brutal he would be your #1 defenceman
Timonen and Grossman are both better then Nion Dion.
Pass.

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01-30-2013, 06:37 PM
  #27
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To many personality flaws and not enough skill. I'm not saying he's horrible, but to much negativity shadows that.

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01-30-2013, 08:30 PM
  #28
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Phaneuf is garbage. Awful captain, overpaid, and overrated.

Pretty much everything wrong with the Maple Leafs franchise.

Just a low hockey IQ player. Honestly one of the dumbest players I've ever seen step on an NHL rink.

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02-01-2013, 02:00 PM
  #29
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It's funny that a fan base happy with Luke Schenn would complain about big dumb slow and overrated defensemen...

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02-01-2013, 02:01 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
It's funny that a fan base happy with Luke Schenn would complain about big dumb slow and overrated defensemen...

You mean the same Schenn who has looked outstanding so far and the teams best defender? Might want to check your facts first. Schenn lost weight and has been getting training from Timonen and Pronger.

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02-01-2013, 02:13 PM
  #31
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I don't understand the hatred for Dion Phaneuf.. ok, I get it... he's a Maple Leaf. Is he a sure fire number 1? Meh, he's a borderline top pairing defenseman and probably not suited as true number 1 and he makes a bit more than what you'd want to pay for his play, but overall, he's still a valuable asset.

I'm not keen on the Flyers trading for him, but overall, we could do a whole lot worse if h were available cheap (which I know he is not).

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02-01-2013, 02:14 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
It's funny that a fan base happy with Luke Schenn would complain about big dumb slow and overrated defensemen...
Cool. You keep Phaneuf then, ok? Schenn has been excellent by the way.

I would take Phaneuf, but not at that price tag and not in the role that would be required of him at that salary.

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02-01-2013, 02:24 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Broad Street Elite View Post
I don't understand the hatred for Dion Phaneuf.. ok, I get it... he's a Maple Leaf. Is he a sure fire number 1? Meh, he's a borderline top pairing defenseman and probably not suited as true number 1 and he makes a bit more than what you'd want to pay for his play, but overall, he's still a valuable asset.

I'm not keen on the Flyers trading for him, but overall, we could do a whole lot worse if h were available cheap (which I know he is not).
Considering everything you just described and his 6.5 million dollar cap hit, I think trading for him would be a major mistake. That has nothing to do with him being a Leaf, and everything to do with him.

I'd rather seek a better solution. We need a true number one, not another not-quite #1.

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02-01-2013, 02:27 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by MrKurri'soupkitchen View Post
3 words: Dressing room cancer. 3 More: Most overrated player (voted by his NHL peers 3 years running)

There's a rumour that's been kicking around forever in hockey circles that the 2005 Gold medal winning Canadian World Junior team all got together for a hunting-fishing trip/reunion and "Neon Dion" was the only player not invited.
I'm sorry what?

where in the name of tar-nation would you have heard something like that

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02-01-2013, 02:27 PM
  #35
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It's not that he's a bad player. I just think he's worth more to Toronto than his actual value. And his big cap hit doesn't really help either.

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02-01-2013, 02:37 PM
  #36
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He's not a bad player at all he just has character concerns and he isn't a big time defenseman. I don't think he is a #1 d-man. He is more of a #2. I'm not a big fan of his inconsistent hockey sense. At his salary he's not really worth it.

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02-01-2013, 03:07 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Considering everything you just described and his 6.5 million dollar cap hit, I think trading for him would be a major mistake. That has nothing to do with him being a Leaf, and everything to do with him.

I'd rather seek a better solution. We need a true number one, not another not-quite #1.
I agree, but the hatred clearly extends beyond "bad value" and that was my larger point.

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02-02-2013, 12:25 AM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Roo Mad Bro View Post
Phaneuf is garbage. Awful captain, overpaid, and overrated.

Pretty much everything wrong with the Maple Leafs franchise.

Just a low hockey IQ player. Honestly one of the dumbest players I've ever seen step on an NHL rink.
He's played great so far this season.

He's also better than any D-man you have on the roster. I'm not sure if a Leafs fan started the thread here but Dion Phaneuf is not available.

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02-02-2013, 12:40 AM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Dark Knight View Post
He's played great so far this season.

He's also better than any D-man you have on the roster. I'm not sure if a Leafs fan started the thread here but Dion Phaneuf is not available.
That's great. I think if you read most of the responses on here, you would see that no one thinks he's available and if he was most here wouldn't want him due to his cap hit and what it would likely cost to acquire him.

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02-02-2013, 01:32 AM
  #40
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I think if you guys are genuinely happy with Luke Schenn, Dion Phaneuf would probably blow you guys away if given the chance.

Personally I think it's an awful suggestion to move him. I'm definitely not trading him within my conference.

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02-02-2013, 01:39 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerkini View Post
I think if you guys are genuinely happy with Luke Schenn, Dion Phaneuf would probably blow you guys away if given the chance.

Personally I think it's an awful suggestion to move him. I'm definitely not trading him within my conference.
Schenn also has a very reasonable cap hit, though.

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02-02-2013, 01:50 AM
  #42
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
Schenn also has a very reasonable cap hit, though.
I thought Schenn looked pretty bad tonight.

Overall, while I think he's looked OK, I don't think he's been exceptional. His first-passes and indecisiveness with the puck have certainly contributed to our horrible breakouts and inability to smoothly navigate the neutral zone. He's not the biggest culprit there, but it still hurts that he's effectively replacing Matt Carle. I'm far from a Matt Carle fan and I think he got vastly overpaid and I didn't want him at that price, but his loss really does hurt us from a puckmoving perspective. He was above average at that and we've replaced him w/ someone who is decidedly below average.

I also really think Timonen has in part made Schenn look better than he actually is. I see Schenn as a good 2nd pairing defenseman in his prime, but I think certain fans are overrating him a bit based on a good start and based on the fact that he plays a physical fan-favorite type of game.

With all that said, I want no parts of Phaneuf at his current cap hit. I think the only solution to this defense problem is Seth Jones (or another top D prospect). I also think that when we inevitably get rid of Lavy, a new system might help too.

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02-02-2013, 02:04 AM
  #43
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Originally Posted by FlyingHigh28 View Post
I thought Schenn looked pretty bad tonight.

Overall, while I think he's looked OK, I don't think he's been exceptional. His first-passes and indecisiveness with the puck have certainly contributed to our horrible breakouts and inability to smoothly navigate the neutral zone. He's not the biggest culprit there, but it still hurts that he's effectively replacing Matt Carle. I'm far from a Matt Carle fan and I think he got vastly overpaid and I didn't want him at that price, but his loss really does hurt us from a puckmoving perspective. He was above average at that and we've replaced him w/ someone who is decidedly below average.

I also really think Timonen has in part made Schenn look better than he actually is. I see Schenn as a good 2nd pairing defenseman in his prime, but I think certain fans are overrating him a bit based on a good start and based on the fact that he plays a physical fan-favorite type of game.

With all that said, I want no parts of Phaneuf at his current cap hit. I think the only solution to this defense problem is Seth Jones (or another top D prospect). I also think that when we inevitably get rid of Lavy, a new system might help too.
This is the second post in an hour or two where you and I essentially agree completely, though I should add that I'm skeptical that firing Lavi will help this season, considering the likely replacements...and knowing Philly, they'd likely be in place for a season or two more as well.

Schenn definitely benefits from Timonen, who has been underrated...he hasn't been as beastly as we're used to, but he's still been solid, considering the D often gets no help from the forwards, because the forwards spend most of the game having aneurysms. Tonight is the first truly bad game Schenn has had. I'm personally not sure Schenn has #1 potential...but if he can just be a solid guy to take Timonen's place someday, that's great. A solid #2 pairing anchor would be great to have...since I doubt he can be a #1, that would be fantastic. Hopefully, I'm wrong completely and he becomes an all-time franchise great Dman.

Carle is missed for getting out of the zone. He was really good at getting them into the neutral zone, and then the offensive zone. Unfortunately, once they were there, he proved to be detrimental overall.

Luke is who he is. He's shown a lot of really nice potential (with downsides...his shot can sometimes take a decade to get off, as advertised)...hopefully it actually pans out. As everyone will recall, Coburn and Carle also had lots of really nice potential, and it hasn't really panned out. Hopefully Schenn is a homerun. Hopefully Coburn stops being a jerk.

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