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Holland Really Screwed the Pooch

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Old
02-01-2013, 11:26 AM
  #126
zetterberg40
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Not going to lie, i would have rather had Hudler on this roster stay then even think about having guys like Cleary or Samuelsson. Abdelkader is also starting to become worthless. Guy is probably a career 4th liner. I just don't get why we commit so much money to idiots like Samuelsson when we could save more money bringing up someone with more talent like Nyquist.

Sorry but I love Holland for all he's done but lately, my buddy and I question him a lot. Last time he won a trade was Stuart, 5 years ago. Before that, maybe Schneider (even though he never helped us win ****).. He overpaid a ton for an aging, overrated Lang (traded a damn good prospect too in Fleischmann)..

He thinks we got problems now, unless he unloads or lets go some of these scrub forwards, he's going to have a hell of a time next season.

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02-01-2013, 11:27 AM
  #127
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
Well, he should. He's better offensively and costs a lot more.
Your saying 1 million bucks is a lot? I dont think so.

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02-01-2013, 11:33 AM
  #128
Heaton
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Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
Your saying 1 million bucks is a lot? I dont think so.
4 years 16m >>>>> 2 years 6m

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02-01-2013, 11:39 AM
  #129
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
4 years 16m >>>>> 2 years 6m
Once again, when you have a billionaire pizza baron owner, the total amount is kinda irrelevant. I'm not sure if I'd like him for 4 years, but I would 100% certain like him at 3 years 12 million or Sammuelson's contract.

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02-01-2013, 11:44 AM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
4 years 16m >>>>> 2 years 6m
you gotta factor in age here though, as Hudler is a lot younger than Sammy, I think the 4 year deal is fair for him and not a major issue. At the same time, you also gotta factor in whether hudler wanted to play for Babcock still, and whether Babcock himself wanted Hudler on the roster still. I'm sure these are things that Holland considered.

I was ok with Huder walking, as I thought we needed something different in our top 6, but I didn't think we needed to resign Sammy, when Sammy comes back if he's not in the top 6 its no big deal, but if we were keeping him in the bottom 6 as well, I would have really liked to give our youth some experience this season. So far its good that Nyquist isnt too upset that he is still in the AHL, but I hope Tatar is ok that he is still there, this is his 4th full season and I think he needs to be resigned this season. Can he even be sent down without going through waivers next year? if not i guess that means at least next year we will get to see him with the big club for sure lol

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02-01-2013, 11:48 AM
  #131
Heaton
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I'm not defending Samuelsson or anything. All I'm saying is that anyone pointing out that Hudler is better offensively than Samuelsson is being extremely obvious.

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02-01-2013, 11:56 AM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
He was given a shot because we had so many injuries. Holland made his decisions over the summer and decided guys like Samuelsson and Bertuzzi were better to play than Nyquist. Babcock wanted Smith up last year and played him an appropriate amount of time when he was re-called but he didn't stay.
Agreed on why he was given a shot, and that he was not given a roster spot before camp, but you have no idea if it was Holland, or Babcock or the entire management team that made that decision. We do know Babcock has some say though, as it was him who said he wanted Damien Brunner in the top 6.

Also the myth that Babcock wanted Smith on the team last year is just that...fiction.
He may have said it in an interview but his actions said otherwise.

Babcock played him roughly the same amount of minutes a game he gave Doug Janik and said he gave up as many chances for the opposition as he created for the Wings. He also had him available for the entire playoffs and didn't even give him a single minute.

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02-01-2013, 12:01 PM
  #133
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Cleary needs to be bumped out of the top six.

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02-01-2013, 12:04 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by tfong View Post
Cleary needs to be bumped out of the top six.
Cleary isn't in the top 6 right now

Franzen - Z - Brunner
Flip - D - Bert

Cleary needs to be bumped out of the lineup though LOL

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02-01-2013, 12:06 PM
  #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I'm not defending Samuelsson or anything. All I'm saying is that anyone pointing out that Hudler is better offensively than Samuelsson is being extremely obvious.
Hudler's short, too.

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02-01-2013, 12:09 PM
  #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussha View Post
Cleary isn't in the top 6 right now

Franzen - Z - Brunner
Flip - D - Bert

Cleary needs to be bumped out of the lineup though LOL
I'd bump Miller when we get healthy. Knock Cleary's IT down to the 12-13 mins a night Miller gets, and I think we start liking him more, and that he'll bring more to a bottom line than Miller. Let both walk in the offseason.

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02-01-2013, 12:29 PM
  #137
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Wow, people here are really bemoaning the loss of Hudler?!?!? He's slow, small, and weak, the very last things this team needs. He went to Calgary, a franchise that flawed players (like him) go to fade away.

It's extremely unfortunate Holland decided to sign Samuelsson, but I'd take him at 2 years over Hudler's 4 for the simple reason it's 2 less years of having one of these bums on the team.

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02-01-2013, 12:47 PM
  #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heaton View Post
I'm not defending Samuelsson or anything. All I'm saying is that anyone pointing out that Hudler is better offensively than Samuelsson is being extremely obvious.
Hudler is vastly more talented, end result has often been negligible because of obvious physical attributes, or lack thereof. Hudler was too easy to play against in the playoffs(the people busy moaning over the "decline" of Pavel and Z probably didn't notice) the last couple of seasons, and his four year deal wouldn't fit this team trying to infuse some home-grown talent in the next two years. Hudler's drive and output never bothered me one bit though, it was just time to move on.

But the way I see things unfolding, they didn't replace Hudler with Sammy. They replaced Hudler with Brunner. Brunner to this point has been as good as Hudler was on Z's wing, he's also younger and faster, and Sammy's gonna fit in better on the 3rd line. They got both Brunner and Sammy for the same price as Hudler. Looks like a good deal to me right now.

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02-01-2013, 01:28 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Hudler is vastly more talented, end result has often been negligible because of obvious physical attributes, or lack thereof. Hudler was too easy to play against in the playoffs(the people busy moaning over the "decline" of Pavel and Z probably didn't notice) the last couple of seasons, and his four year deal wouldn't fit this team trying to infuse some home-grown talent in the next two years. Hudler's drive and output never bothered me one bit though, it was just time to move on.

But the way I see things unfolding, they didn't replace Hudler with Sammy. They replaced Hudler with Brunner. Brunner to this point has been as good as Hudler was on Z's wing, he's also younger and faster, and Sammy's gonna fit in better on the 3rd line. They got both Brunner and Sammy for the same price as Hudler. Looks like a good deal to me right now.
Judging from the first few games Sammy for $3 million doesn't look worth it at all. His groin may have been bothering him, but the guy literally did nothing. I'm not even sure if Ken Daniels has said his name during play-by-play

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02-01-2013, 02:08 PM
  #140
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Originally Posted by Spitfire11 View Post
Wow, people here are really bemoaning the loss of Hudler?!?!? He's slow, small, and weak, the very last things this team needs. He went to Calgary, a franchise that flawed players (like him) go to fade away.

It's extremely unfortunate Holland decided to sign Samuelsson, but I'd take him at 2 years over Hudler's 4 for the simple reason it's 2 less years of having one of these bums on the team.
Mostly just eva unit zero.

Jiri Hudler seems to be his only talking point on these boards.

Well, that and hating on the guys the KH signed in his stead.

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02-01-2013, 05:29 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by EZBAKE View Post
The difference is basically the cost of another 4th line scrub like Emmerton.

I honestly think the constant hatred for Hudler is just as funny as Eva's fanatical love. So underrated/underutilized in Detroit
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spitfire11 View Post
Wow, people here are really bemoaning the loss of Hudler?!?!? He's slow, small, and weak, the very last things this team needs. He went to Calgary, a franchise that flawed players (like him) go to fade away.

It's extremely unfortunate Holland decided to sign Samuelsson, but I'd take him at 2 years over Hudler's 4 for the simple reason it's 2 less years of having one of these bums on the team.
Personally, I view Hudler as being marginally useful but expendable and replaceable.

Small skilled player who has good hands but can't PK or backcheck or play with any physicality? They have a bunch of guys that fit that bill but have better speed. Granted, they're not proven at the NHL level, but at least one of them could prove themselves if given the opportunity. And they all cost about 1/6 of what he does.

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02-01-2013, 05:41 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Hudler is vastly more talented, end result has often been negligible because of obvious physical attributes, or lack thereof. Hudler was too easy to play against in the playoffs(the people busy moaning over the "decline" of Pavel and Z probably didn't notice) the last couple of seasons, and his four year deal wouldn't fit this team trying to infuse some home-grown talent in the next two years. Hudler's drive and output never bothered me one bit though, it was just time to move on.

But the way I see things unfolding, they didn't replace Hudler with Sammy. They replaced Hudler with Brunner. Brunner to this point has been as good as Hudler was on Z's wing, he's also younger and faster, and Sammy's gonna fit in better on the 3rd line. They got both Brunner and Sammy for the same price as Hudler. Looks like a good deal to me right now.
Jiri Hudler was fine in last year's playoffs.
He sucked as a third or fourth line player playing with unskilled dump and chasers. Anyone surprised by that?

I was willing to dump Hudler this year because I figured it made room for Nyquist and or Tatar.

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02-01-2013, 10:50 PM
  #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Hudler is vastly more talented, end result has often been negligible because of obvious physical attributes, or lack thereof. Hudler was too easy to play against in the playoffs(the people busy moaning over the "decline" of Pavel and Z probably didn't notice) the last couple of seasons, and his four year deal wouldn't fit this team trying to infuse some home-grown talent in the next two years. Hudler's drive and output never bothered me one bit though, it was just time to move on.
Because, y'know, when we have a) tens of millions in cap space and we can afford to re-sign a talented scoring forward just hitting his prime, and b) a need for top-six scoring, then c) we should instead tell him to go somewhere else because we certainly don't want his kind around here.

Quote:
But the way I see things unfolding, they didn't replace Hudler with Sammy. They replaced Hudler with Brunner. Brunner to this point has been as good as Hudler was on Z's wing, he's also younger and faster, and Sammy's gonna fit in better on the 3rd line. They got both Brunner and Sammy for the same price as Hudler. Looks like a good deal to me right now.
If Brunner performs this season as well as Hudler has averaged over his past three (pace for 48 points) then Brunner is going to cost what Hudler costs, at minimum.

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Originally Posted by crashman View Post
Mostly just eva unit zero.

Jiri Hudler seems to be his only talking point on these boards.

Well, that and hating on the guys the KH signed in his stead.
I like Brunner. I don't like that Holland apparently set aside a certain amount of cap space to go after Suter and Parise, and basically capped himself out of free agency. Hudler's "number" was $3.3m. Holland wouldn't go above it because he "couldn't". Hudler wants a better deal. Holland signs Samuelsson for $3m and pulls the offer from Hudler.

I'm even okay with Mikael Samuelsson; I'm not okay with the price or the fact that Holland felt the need to sign him on day one.

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Originally Posted by The Fading Captain View Post
Jiri Hudler was fine in last year's playoffs.
He was better than fine, he was one of four forwards who could be considered a positive contributor.

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He sucked as a third or fourth line player playing with unskilled dump and chasers. Anyone surprised by that?
The only time Hudler "sucked" was when he slumped coming back from the KHL, and was put with a slumping Modano. This was exacerbated by the fact that Modano's play style - as I have detailed before - is about as far away from what you what for a center for Hudler as you can get.

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Old
02-02-2013, 01:46 AM
  #144
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Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
He overpaid a ton for an aging, overrated Lang (traded a damn good prospect too in Fleischmann)..
Not to derail the thread, but I think this is a case of hindsight. At the time of the trade no one knew that pick would turn out to be Mike Green, and Lang was the LEADING scorer in the league and brought size to a team that desperately needed it. While his stats were obviously known to be inflated due to Jagr, he was a legit first liner at that stage in his own right.

Some moves like bringing Sammuelson, the Quincy trade, and Jason Williams were obvious fails at the time of them happening. I dont think its fair to put the Lang trade in that group

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02-02-2013, 01:58 AM
  #145
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Originally Posted by zetterberg40 View Post
Sorry but I love Holland for all he's done but lately, my buddy and I question him a lot. Last time he won a trade was Stuart, 5 years ago. Before that, maybe Schneider (even though he never helped us win ****).. He overpaid a ton for an aging, overrated Lang (traded a damn good prospect too in Fleischmann)..
First round pick and a B-level prospect for the league's leading scorer at the time. Yeah, what an idiot.

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