HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Buffalo Sabres
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Foligno vs Kassian: No Hodge

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-01-2013, 05:50 PM
  #26
Stop Winnin
TANK ON BOYS
 
Stop Winnin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 8,703
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by slowgothemo View Post
This is where I am at. Add in more points in almost half the games, I believe its:

Advantage: Foligno
Kassian played on the 4th line for much of his stint in Vancouver, and was on the 3rd or 4th line here as well. He didn't get the same opportunity as Foligno did.

Stop Winnin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 06:34 PM
  #27
SublimeNightmare
Registered User
 
SublimeNightmare's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Embrace the Tank
Country: United States
Posts: 295
vCash: 500
Send a message via Yahoo to SublimeNightmare
Jury's out on both. Until we at least at 100 NHL games played it is very hard to tell at this point.

SublimeNightmare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 07:05 PM
  #28
CrankyJay
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Lancaster, NY
Country: Lithuania
Posts: 4,913
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jame View Post
Kassian moved because a young top 6 all around center was somehow available, and **** like that almost never happens.
Yep...I think Darcy was calling around and fell into a deal. Sometimes you have to give up something difficult to give up to get what you need.

CrankyJay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 07:19 PM
  #29
McTank
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,820
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stop Winnin View Post
Kassian played on the 4th line for much of his stint in Vancouver, and was on the 3rd or 4th line here as well. He didn't get the same opportunity as Foligno did.
Foligno was with stafford and ennis, stafford is mediocre. Kassian had as much of an opportunity in buffalo. And has now play a handful of games with the sedins and yet still this season foligno is producing at pretty much the same pace so far

McTank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 07:45 PM
  #30
Stop Winnin
TANK ON BOYS
 
Stop Winnin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 8,703
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
Foligno was with stafford and ennis, stafford is mediocre. Kassian had as much of an opportunity in buffalo. And has now play a handful of games with the sedins and yet still this season foligno is producing at pretty much the same pace so far
Kassian never played in the top 6 here. Maybe for a shift or two but never sustained minutes. He has been playing with the Sedins, but it's not like the Sedins are creating opportunity after opportunity for the guy and if you watch the Vancouver games it's not like he's being carried by the line, he is playing at a very high level right now.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have Foligno but that has more to do with Foligno's character, consistent physicality and leadership qualities than his skill.

I'd like both if it was possible.

Stop Winnin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 07:47 PM
  #31
Rob Paxon
⚔Z E M G U S⚔
 
Rob Paxon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: corfu, ny
Country: United States
Posts: 18,355
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Rob Paxon
Kassian is easily the better offensive player. There's a chance that they become close offensively if Foligno maximizes his talent and becomes a consistent monster on the forecheck. But Kassian will always have a far superior shot, far superior hands, etc and should always be the better offensive player.

Foligno has shown better defense, consistency, and physical play in his career but likewise Kassian can come close to that if he maximizes his tools.

Rob Paxon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 10:09 PM
  #32
McTank
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Toronto
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,820
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stop Winnin View Post
Kassian never played in the top 6 here. Maybe for a shift or two but never sustained minutes. He has been playing with the Sedins, but it's not like the Sedins are creating opportunity after opportunity for the guy and if you watch the Vancouver games it's not like he's being carried by the line, he is playing at a very high level right now.

Don't get me wrong, I'd rather have Foligno but that has more to do with Foligno's character, consistent physicality and leadership qualities than his skill.

I'd like both if it was possible.
I have been watching the games and atleast on his goals it looks like he has been carried by the line. Almost all of them he is just standing out side of the crease and shovels in a backdoor pass. But ya I'd love to have him back aswell

McTank is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 10:34 PM
  #33
Mergus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 266
vCash: 500
I think people are pretty quick to judge who is the better offensive player. Some numbers for thought....

Their career AHL numbers...

Kassian - 58 GP, 22g, 24a, 46 points (.79 PPG), +2
Foligno - 93 GP, 26g, 40a, 66 points (.71 PPG), +26

This year only:
Kassian - 28 GP, 7g, 13a, 20 points (.71 PPG), -2
Foligno - 33 GP, 10g, 17a, 27 points (.81 PPG), +7

If Kassian was so much more gifted offensively, shouldn't that difference in skill been even more obvious at the AHL level? Or were Foligno's line mates carrying him in the AHL as well?

Anyone saying that Kassian will outscore Foligno is basically looking at where they were drafted and assuming that means Kassian is more talented. Only time will tell, but I doubt either one stands out as more skilled than the other over the long haul.

I also love hearing people talk about Kassian's puck control, have they not watched Foligno? He is just as good.

Case in point, the feed to Vanek right before the goal by Ennis. That was domination along the wall and then he had the hands to put a pass on Vanek's tape while being taken down.

Mergus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 10:40 PM
  #34
Tim Murray
HoF Turd Shiner
 
Tim Murray's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 4,427
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VilleLeino View Post
put foligno with Sedin caliber players and you would see He would be the better point getter.
Can't agree with that. Kassian is the superior skill player offensively.

Tim Murray is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 11:12 PM
  #35
New Sabres Captain
ForFriendshipDikembe
 
New Sabres Captain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 39,084
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheyAreGoodScaryGood View Post
Foligno-Ott-Kassian that line would destroy
The line's nickname basically writes itself...the "FOK you" line

New Sabres Captain is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2013, 12:05 AM
  #36
Imlach a cup
Registered User
 
Imlach a cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,978
vCash: 500
Kassian's biggest issue in Buffalo is that he needs a quality line to allow him to plow the net and no one was gonna take Vanek off the top line to make room for him. So you switch from a big goal scorer whose physical to a big physical player who can score and managed to aquire a (hopefully) 2 way number 2 center who was 21(?). All around there's not a thing about the deal I didn't like. Even if it Foligno somehow gets himself attached to this move I liked it. Now if we can upgrade Stafford I think we would be headed somewhere.

Imlach a cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2013, 12:07 AM
  #37
Imlach a cup
Registered User
 
Imlach a cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,978
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrigsAndGirgs View Post
The line's nickname basically writes itself...the "FOK you" line
I would have liked a Foligno Grigs Kassian line. All over 6 ft all over 200lbs all can score and Grigs could set up Kassian all night.

Imlach a cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2013, 01:34 AM
  #38
Taelin
Resident Hipster
 
Taelin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,602
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by VilleLeino View Post
put foligno with Sedin caliber players and you would see He would be the better point getter.
I think the Sedins have only assisted on two of his goals. He was pretty much carrying that line (offensively) in the first few games of the season.

That said, I love them both.

Maybe I just have a thing for powerfowards.

Taelin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2013, 02:19 AM
  #39
Imlach a cup
Registered User
 
Imlach a cup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 3,978
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Taelin View Post
Maybe I just have a thing for powerfowards.
Who doesnt love power forwards. All those hard bodied men grappling with eachother... I've made myself uncomfortable please go to the next post. Gotta go pump some iron and talk about war for a few.

Imlach a cup is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2013, 02:25 AM
  #40
Sergei Shirokov
Registered User
 
Sergei Shirokov's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: British Columbia
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,147
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mergus View Post
I think people are pretty quick to judge who is the better offensive player. Some numbers for thought....

Their career AHL numbers...

Kassian - 58 GP, 22g, 24a, 46 points (.79 PPG), +2
Foligno - 93 GP, 26g, 40a, 66 points (.71 PPG), +26

This year only:
Kassian - 28 GP, 7g, 13a, 20 points (.71 PPG), -2
Foligno - 33 GP, 10g, 17a, 27 points (.81 PPG), +7

If Kassian was so much more gifted offensively, shouldn't that difference in skill been even more obvious at the AHL level? Or were Foligno's line mates carrying him in the AHL as well?

Anyone saying that Kassian will outscore Foligno is basically looking at where they were drafted and assuming that means Kassian is more talented. Only time will tell, but I doubt either one stands out as more skilled than the other over the long haul.

I also love hearing people talk about Kassian's puck control, have they not watched Foligno? He is just as good.

Case in point, the feed to Vanek right before the goal by Ennis. That was domination along the wall and then he had the hands to put a pass on Vanek's tape while being taken down.
Watched alot of the Wolves games.

Man our coach is an idiot. Our team was a mainly defensive team that wasn't good at that either, Rodchester's team is far superior.

AHL stats can be useful but they can also be meaningless, Everyone was worried about Schroeder and Kassian but they have come up and have been some of our best players.

Not going to comment on Foligno as I don't know a ton about him but just wanted to point out our AHL team really wasn't that great.

Sergei Shirokov is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2013, 03:11 AM
  #41
Stop Winnin
TANK ON BOYS
 
Stop Winnin's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Buffalo
Posts: 8,703
vCash: 500
The numbers are favored for Foligno but Kassian's offensive potential is miles higher than Foligno's. You won't see Foligno score goals the way Kassian will one day. His stick handling for a big man is superb and he has good vision and a booming shot. Let's compare them at the end of this season and we'll get a better look at what's these two will be like.

I watched the Canucks game today and Kassian was pretty meh, he made a very nice tape to tape pass on the Edler goal and had one big hit but was otherwise pretty invisible. I hope for Vancouver that he's gotten over his consistency issues and he doesn't start slumping soon.

Stop Winnin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2013, 04:57 AM
  #42
CCF23
Registered User
 
CCF23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Richmond, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,649
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to CCF23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stop Winnin View Post
The numbers are favored for Foligno but Kassian's offensive potential is miles higher than Foligno's. You won't see Foligno score goals the way Kassian will one day. His stick handling for a big man is superb and he has good vision and a booming shot. Let's compare them at the end of this season and we'll get a better look at what's these two will be like.

I watched the Canucks game today and Kassian was pretty meh, he made a very nice tape to tape pass on the Edler goal and had one big hit but was otherwise pretty invisible. I hope for Vancouver that he's gotten over his consistency issues and he doesn't start slumping soon.
I think it's easy to forget that it sometimes takes power forwards a little longer than other prospects to reach their potential and find consistency. There aren't many Milan Lucic types that make a consistent impact almost immediately.

I'm very happy with Kassian's production so far, but my excitement is tempered. I fully expect him to go through slumps this season. The fact is he's still barely 22 years old and learning how to effectively play that style of game at an NHL level night in and night out.

The thing that pleases me about Kassian is how smart he is. The misconception about playing with the Sedins is you just need to go to the net and wait for them to pass the puck around until it's on your stick for a goal. The reason Alex Burrows has been so successful with the Twins is because of how smart he is, and I see some of that same hockey IQ with Kassian. He can work the cycle and he's smart when he parks in front. He knows when to roll off into the high slot or to the side of the net. He's been getting a ton of chances and most have been because he's been making the smart play and positioning himself where he needs to be.

Defensively, Kassian has been passable. Not great, not bad. I'd rate him as decent so far in his own end. In terms of physicality, it hasn't so much been in the way of big hits, but more how he uses his body along the boards. With the Twins, Kassian's size has been a huge asset because he's been creating more space for them along the walls because he pretty much forces extra pressure on him because he's very hard to knock off the puck. He's also been great in front, but I'd definitely like to see a little more in the way of actually laying the body.

I'll have to PVR more Sabres games to get a good look at Foligno. Will be interesting to keep an eye on.

CCF23 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2013, 07:10 AM
  #43
Duddy
Everyday is
 
Duddy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Country: Austria
Posts: 10,413
vCash: 500
oh my god
another thread, another canucks invasion.


lol

Duddy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2013, 07:14 AM
  #44
barcs
Registered User
 
barcs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 2,043
vCash: 500
I propose Vancouver ships the Sedins to Buffalo to play with Foligno so we can end this debate the right way.

barcs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2013, 04:01 PM
  #45
thekenneth
Registered User
 
thekenneth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 259
vCash: 500
to be fair kassian is on the first line and foligno isn't. a better comparison is hodgson for kasian. thus far they have the same amount of points but hodgson has been more two way. Hodgson is one of 3 skaters this year that is doing any good.


If kassian was with vanek and pominville the line wouldn't be as good. Kassian is doing well but remember at one point how amazing it seemed foligno was. I need more time to watch this for comparison though.

thekenneth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2013, 04:56 PM
  #46
Wizeman*
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,624
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thekenneth View Post
to be fair kassian is on the first line and foligno isn't. a better comparison is hodgson for kasian. thus far they have the same amount of points but hodgson has been more two way. Hodgson is one of 3 skaters this year that is doing any good.


If kassian was with vanek and pominville the line wouldn't be as good. Kassian is doing well but remember at one point how amazing it seemed foligno was. I need more time to watch this for comparison though.
Where on Gods green earth do you get this stuff? The Sedins are not dominating like they were two and three years ago.

Pominville and Vanek are now having peak years .

Hodgson is 'two way' . The guy is SLOW , and couldnt hit or fight his way out of a paper bag. We all saw that for years in Vancouver.

In fact, this whole conversation is ridiculous. Kassian is bigger, faster, stronger, can hit, fight and is a year YOUNGER .

Yet , even the only category where Hodgson should be ahead of Kassian, the big guy has the same amount of points and more goals.

So far, Kassian is kicking Hodgsons rear end. Hodgson is a minus three now.

Wizeman* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2013, 04:58 PM
  #47
Wizeman*
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 2,624
vCash: 500
By the way, Foligno is a great young power forward. Hes a keeper. Sabres got a good young pro .

Wizeman* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2013, 05:20 PM
  #48
tsujimoto74
Registered User
 
tsujimoto74's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 9,384
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wizeman View Post
Where on Gods green earth do you get this stuff? The Sedins are not dominating like they were two and three years ago.

Pominville and Vanek are now having peak years .

Hodgson is 'two way' . The guy is SLOW , and couldnt hit or fight his way out of a paper bag. We all saw that for years in Vancouver.

In fact, this whole conversation is ridiculous. Kassian is bigger, faster, stronger, can hit, fight and is a year YOUNGER .

Yet , even the only category where Hodgson should be ahead of Kassian, the big guy has the same amount of points and more goals.

So far, Kassian is kicking Hodgsons rear end. Hodgson is a minus three now.
Hosgson's speed is noticeably better than last year, and he is improving defensively. Also, irrelevant that Kass is a whopping 1 year younger; Cody lost a year to injury. They're pretty much in the exact same spot developmentally. We all know Kassian has good hockey sense for a power forward, but Cody's hockey sense is through the roof. He should outscore Kassian more often than not going forward. Kassian obviously brings the physical game too though, but that's the trade off.

tsujimoto74 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2013, 06:52 PM
  #49
thekenneth
Registered User
 
thekenneth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 259
vCash: 500
sedins not doing very well???


henrick had 81 points last year

daniel 67 in 72 games

thekenneth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2013, 08:35 PM
  #50
Have My Baby Pierre
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 9,144
vCash: 500
Not really fair to compare them...one will probably have to play under Lindy Ruff's "system" for his entire career.

Have My Baby Pierre is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:20 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.