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Can it be turned around?

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Old
02-02-2013, 12:06 AM
  #1
Unstable
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Can it be turned around?

I am afraid maybe not.

A lot is made by fans and commentators of a short season and the need to get off to a good start etc etc. And yet we can look at the standings and say, objectively, that there are not yet many points between the top and the bottom of the standings.

Yet historical stats back up the "fast start" claim, the fact that the NHL doesn't have that many huge swings in the standings.

Why is this? Because in a sport like hockey, with so much movement, so much team coordination, so many situations where heart and individual effort make a difference...it doesn't take that many games for it to be apparent what sort of a team you are.

And this team is awful. Logic tells us they can't be this awful...our hearts desperately want us to believe that tomorrow or next week they won't be this awful. But when all is said and done...why on earth should we actually think anything will change, or at least change enough? EVERY player is finding some way to do EVERY little thing JUST A TINY BIT wrong, but that's wrong enough.

They need to play 100% of the time. They need to battle on the boards. They need to complete clears. They need to complete passes. If one player were scuffling this much it would be one thing. If several players were scuffling in one or two areas, a good coaching staff could straighten them out. But they are all scuffling in every area, or at least that's what it feels like.

The mind, it boggles.

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02-02-2013, 12:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unstable View Post
I am afraid maybe not.

A lot is made by fans and commentators of a short season and the need to get off to a good start etc etc. And yet we can look at the standings and say, objectively, that there are not yet many points between the top and the bottom of the standings.

Yet historical stats back up the "fast start" claim, the fact that the NHL doesn't have that many huge swings in the standings.

Why is this? Because in a sport like hockey, with so much movement, so much team coordination, so many situations where heart and individual effort make a difference...it doesn't take that many games for it to be apparent what sort of a team you are.

And this team is awful. Logic tells us they can't be this awful...our hearts desperately want us to believe that tomorrow or next week they won't be this awful. But when all is said and done...why on earth should we actually think anything will change, or at least change enough? EVERY player is finding some way to do EVERY little thing JUST A TINY BIT wrong, but that's wrong enough.

They need to play 100% of the time. They need to battle on the boards. They need to complete clears. They need to complete passes. If one player were scuffling this much it would be one thing. If several players were scuffling in one or two areas, a good coaching staff could straighten them out. But they are all scuffling in every area, or at least that's what it feels like.

The mind, it boggles.
unfortunately, i think homer really screwed this roster up this team and i think another gm has to come in here and evaluate what players on this team are good, it's a mess right now and homer's drafting players arent really impressive either, so if this team wants to get back into contending, they have to get some good players on this team plus a coach.

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02-02-2013, 12:26 AM
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NO pack it in already. It is only 8 games give it another 10 before worrying!

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02-02-2013, 12:41 AM
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This has nothing to do with the thread, but when I first saw the title "can it be turned around" I immediately thought of an idea for a weird gameshow in which contestants are challanged with turning around various, comically oversized vehicles in a narrow alley...

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02-02-2013, 12:43 AM
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If only we had Thomas Hyka, we wouldn't be in this mess....

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02-02-2013, 01:12 AM
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If only we had Thomas Hyka, we wouldn't be in this mess....
... or John Carlson.

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02-02-2013, 01:57 AM
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I'm personally ok with sucking if we get our d-man in the draft. Our core is still very young. If we didn't blow up the team earlier, sucking now would be a problem. But as it is, with a half season and some nice consolation prizes for teams like us, plus the fact Richie and Jeff would be 29(wow they age fast, don't they?) next season, I think we should fortify the young core even more with some nice, nice pieces this year. I still enjoy watching them and I want them to win....but I'm not gonna complain if we don't. This season might be just what we needed to get rid of some dead weight (Briere, old Timo, maybe Mesz?) and still get something for them if we aren't competing.

If we can get some #2 or #3 guys on D with those trades, all the better. Then we can spend our money on replacing Briere with a Duck or two.

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02-02-2013, 07:31 AM
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I'm personally ok with sucking if we get our d-man in the draft. Our core is still very young. If we didn't blow up the team earlier, sucking now would be a problem. But as it is, with a half season and some nice consolation prizes for teams like us, plus the fact Richie and Jeff would be 29(wow they age fast, don't they?) next season, I think we should fortify the young core even more with some nice, nice pieces this year. I still enjoy watching them and I want them to win....but I'm not gonna complain if we don't. This season might be just what we needed to get rid of some dead weight (Briere, old Timo, maybe Mesz?) and still get something for them if we aren't competing.

If we can get some #2 or #3 guys on D with those trades, all the better. Then we can spend our money on replacing Briere with a Duck or two.

The problem is that those players have NTCs (Briere, Timonen) or are damaged goods (Mesz).

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02-02-2013, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by orange is better View Post
This has nothing to do with the thread, but when I first saw the title "can it be turned around" I immediately thought of an idea for a weird gameshow in which contestants are challanged with turning around various, comically oversized vehicles in a narrow alley...
That's awesome! I'd watch it.

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02-02-2013, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Synthetic View Post
I'm personally ok with sucking if we get our d-man in the draft. Our core is still very young. If we didn't blow up the team earlier, sucking now would be a problem. But as it is, with a half season and some nice consolation prizes for teams like us, plus the fact Richie and Jeff would be 29(wow they age fast, don't they?) next season, I think we should fortify the young core even more with some nice, nice pieces this year. I still enjoy watching them and I want them to win....but I'm not gonna complain if we don't. This season might be just what we needed to get rid of some dead weight (Briere, old Timo, maybe Mesz?) and still get something for them if we aren't competing.

If we can get some #2 or #3 guys on D with those trades, all the better. Then we can spend our money on replacing Briere with a Duck or two.
This is the approach I'd take. I still blame the lock-out for the poor start, plus injuries. We are without our leading scorer from last season, and without Mez. If we win, fine, but I am not upset if we don't win. Losing players last season and not being able to obtain replacements in the summer (which I don't blame Holmgren) really killed any legitimate shot at the Cup.

If we could trade Kimmo we could probably get a first rounder. He'd just have to approve it and not get hurt as well.

If we're going to miss the playoffs, we might as well just plain stink.

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02-02-2013, 08:02 AM
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I have a draft related question - I know that every non-playoff team now gets a shot at the #1 pick (which I hate). But do they have a lottery for each pick like the NBA where every pick is up for grabs, or is it just for the #1 overall and then everyone moves back a spot?

I'd hate to finish 2nd worst in the league and end up with the 13th pick.

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02-02-2013, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
I have a draft related question - I know that every non-playoff team now gets a shot at the #1 pick (which I hate). But do they have a lottery for each pick like the NBA where every pick is up for grabs, or is it just for the #1 overall and then everyone moves back a spot?

I'd hate to finish 2nd worst in the league and end up with the 13th pick.
I believe its only the 1st overall pick that gets determine by the lottery the rest is by the standings. Gonna go look it up now to see if I can confirm this though.

Apparently they haven't even decided how the odds are going to be weighted yet for the lottery.
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/story/?id=414864

Quote:
But the NHL and NHLPA haven't worked out the details yet of exactly what the weighted odds will be for each of the 14 non-playoff teams.


Last edited by chinatown81592: 02-02-2013 at 08:15 AM.
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Old
02-02-2013, 08:27 AM
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I believe its only the 1st overall pick that gets determine by the lottery the rest is by the standings. Gonna go look it up now to see if I can confirm this though.

Apparently they haven't even decided how the odds are going to be weighted yet for the lottery.
http://www.tsn.ca/draftcentre/story/?id=414864
With our luck we'll finish worst like in 2007 and lose the lottery and not get Seth Jones.

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02-02-2013, 08:35 AM
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With our luck we'll finish worst like in 2007 and lose the lottery and not get Seth Jones.
Getting MacKinnon or Barkov wouldn't be the end of the world.

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02-02-2013, 08:37 AM
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Getting MacKinnon or Barkov wouldn't be the end of the world.
It wouldnt be, but in order to win a Cup (other than the 2006 Hurricanes) you need a franchise defenseman. They are hard to get. Seth Jones seems to be that type of player.

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02-02-2013, 08:52 AM
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With our luck we'll finish worst like in 2007 and lose the lottery and not get Seth Jones.
Yes, but if the consolation prizes are a shot at Barkov, Mackinnon and Drouin, it's certainly a good place to start, especially if they can target a team rich with defensemen who might be desperate enough to move up to draft one of them. What if Phoenix moves to Quebec and they want to make a big splash by bringing on someone like Mackinnon or Drouin? If they were to offer say their first round pick plus Gormley and someone else, then I can easily see the Flyers making that sort of move. They still get a first and they get a solid young defenseman to help rebuild the D around. This is a good year for moving down and acquiring additional assets.

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02-02-2013, 09:01 AM
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It wouldnt be, but in order to win a Cup (other than the 2006 Hurricanes) you need a franchise defenseman. They are hard to get. Seth Jones seems to be that type of player.
I agree, but it's not like this draft is as weak as the 2007 draft. There are some great prospects outside of Jones.

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02-02-2013, 09:13 AM
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I'm personally ok with sucking if we get our d-man in the draft. Our core is still very young. If we didn't blow up the team earlier, sucking now would be a problem. But as it is, with a half season and some nice consolation prizes for teams like us, plus the fact Richie and Jeff would be 29(wow they age fast, don't they?) next season, I think we should fortify the young core even more with some nice, nice pieces this year. I still enjoy watching them and I want them to win....but I'm not gonna complain if we don't. This season might be just what we needed to get rid of some dead weight (Briere, old Timo, maybe Mesz?) and still get something for them if we aren't competing.

If we can get some #2 or #3 guys on D with those trades, all the better. Then we can spend our money on replacing Briere with a Duck or two.
Well, we had a #2 and #3 guy with Carle, but he is now on the best team in the East. Thanks Homer!

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02-02-2013, 09:17 AM
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In 1995, the Flyers started 3-7-1 and went to the Eastern Conference Finals.

Get back to me in 2 weeks

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02-02-2013, 09:21 AM
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Well, we had a #2 and #3 guy with Carle, but he is now on the best team in the East. Thanks Homer!
I still think Carle was overpaid, and I don't think he would make us a Cup contender.

I am of the opinion that overpaying players rarely leads to a Cup. When I think about recent Cup winners, they have a lot of players who are underpaid and then get their big payday later. Chicago had this happen, the Bruins had a bunch of 60 point players none of which were paid too much, and the Kings had players like Quick who were yet to get their payday.

I think if we settle for Carle-like players, it helps us be better than we are, but it prevents us from signing a big name player who is really worth the money. Sadly, they all went to other teams this offseason, but it still gives us that possiblility.

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02-02-2013, 09:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Pantokrator View Post
I still think Carle was overpaid, and I don't think he would make us a Cup contender.

I am of the opinion that overpaying players rarely leads to a Cup. When I think about recent Cup winners, they have a lot of players who are underpaid and then get their big payday later. Chicago had this happen, the Bruins had a bunch of 60 point players none of which were paid too much, and the Kings had players like Quick who were yet to get their payday.

I think if we settle for Carle-like players, it helps us be better than we are, but it prevents us from signing a big name player who is really worth the money. Sadly, they all went to other teams this offseason, but it still gives us that possiblility.
Just wondering, which big name defensemen this coming off-season would you like to sign to big money?

That's why they started getting in the RFA market. The good ones don't hit the UFA market. That's why you don't let them leave.

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02-02-2013, 09:49 AM
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In 1995, the Flyers started 3-7-1 and went to the Eastern Conference Finals.

Get back to me in 2 weeks
I mentioned that on another board and one of the posters there said the following:

1) Claude Giroux is not Eric Lindros
2) There is no John LeClair on this club
3) There is no Eric Desjardins on this club

I still think that the club can turn it around, but like that team in 1995, they'll need to do something to shake the club up. Is it firing Laviolette? I don't know if that's the answer. Is it trading someone like Voracek or Simmonds? I don't know if that's the answer either, especially when Simmonds has been one of the better players on the ice and Voracek has been really terrible since the season has started (I think him not being named to start on the Hartnell / Giroux line to start the year really affected him).

I agree though that it's very early and it's very possible to turn it around. The defense group hasn't been that bad and the goaltending has been really solid (minus the MFL debacle against Tampa Bay). If the offense can ever get going, they'll be fine.

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02-02-2013, 09:50 AM
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Just wondering, which big name defensemen this coming off-season would you like to sign to big money?

That's why they started getting in the RFA market. The good ones don't hit the UFA market. That's why you don't let them leave.
That's part of the reason why I'm convinced that they're going to target someone like Brandon Gormley or David Rundblad via trade.

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02-02-2013, 09:55 AM
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unfortunately, i think homer really screwed this roster up this team and i think another gm has to come in here and evaluate what players on this team are good, it's a mess right now and homer's drafting players arent really impressive either, so if this team wants to get back into contending, they have to get some good players on this team plus a coach.
So, a new GM, new players and a new coach, gotcha. What about the logo, does that need to be changed too?

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02-02-2013, 11:48 AM
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In 1995, the Flyers started 3-7-1 and went to the Eastern Conference Finals.

Get back to me in 2 weeks
Who was the coach?

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