HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > Other Sports > Football
Football NFL, NCAA, CFL

Academics and recruiting

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-29-2013, 07:31 PM
  #26
Mathradio
Go Roy Munson!
 
Mathradio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,477
vCash: 500
Do schools recruit hockey players with no academic merits? Or college hockey players usually more fit to study in college than football and basketball players?

Mathradio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-30-2013, 01:36 PM
  #27
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
RIP Kev
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 31,019
vCash: 2498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathradio View Post
Do schools recruit hockey players with no academic merits? Or college hockey players usually more fit to study in college than football and basketball players?
Well, even non-scholarship players will be given more lax standards to get into a university if they're an invited walk on. Not sure about the Ivy League schools but the standards to get into a lot of schools if you're even an invited walk on are pretty ridiculous compared to what the average student needs to get in.

Not sure about the specific sports though. I mean Jack Johnson's wasn't exactly studying to be a rocket scientist, now Joe Juneau on the other hand...

DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-31-2013, 08:37 PM
  #28
Mathradio
Go Roy Munson!
 
Mathradio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,477
vCash: 500
Academic statistics for the 2001 UCLA hockey team (keep in mind that UCLA is a Division II hockey school and this data is a little dated; couldn't find more recent data):

Average entering UCGPA: 4.07 (this means adding a grade point to one's eight best AP/IB classes, honors classes count towards UCGPA if a Californian kid)
Average SAT scores: 1274 (1600 scale; would translate to 1910 on the 2400 scale)

I believe these are way better credentials than football, baseball or basketball players (even if UCLA plays in Division I for the 3 other sports, rather than Division II)

For each John Urschel (a Penn State player who, at one time, maintained a 4.0 GPA as a mathematics major, and, if I'm not mistaken, could have been a legitimate PhD student while still on scholarship) or Tanner Shuck (Rice; was a 4.0 student back in the high school day), there are always going to be college football students with no academic merits, some 2.5/22 kids making it to big-time football teams.

P.S.: For instance, if, say, Laval University or U Manitoba recruited an American 2.5/22 kid, the kid would likely flunk his way out of CIS football.

Mathradio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-01-2013, 01:25 AM
  #29
XX
... Waiting
 
XX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: 48th State
Country: United States
Posts: 27,236
vCash: 500
There are new rules this year. You cannot send out more LOIs than you have offers or space. It's not really feasible to take a flyer on a kid who may not make it academically anymore.

XX is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2013, 09:44 AM
  #30
Mathradio
Go Roy Munson!
 
Mathradio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,477
vCash: 500
Would you then expect Canadian schools (Bishop's, Laval, UMB, for instance, knowing UBC, U Toronto or McGill will not) to take the players who don't have the academics to qualify for NCAA Division I (even FCS standards) play?

Because easy majors are notorious to be "open-admissions" at certain Canadian schools.


Last edited by Mathradio: 02-02-2013 at 09:51 AM.
Mathradio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2013, 10:43 AM
  #31
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
RIP Kev
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 31,019
vCash: 2498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathradio View Post
Would you then expect Canadian schools (Bishop's, Laval, UMB, for instance, knowing UBC, U Toronto or McGill will not) to take the players who don't have the academics to qualify for NCAA Division I (even FCS standards) play?

Because easy majors are notorious to be "open-admissions" at certain Canadian schools.
Most of them tend to go the Junior College route in the US. There will be some that take the Canadian route, there was a guy drafted out of either Regina or U. Sask this past year (can't remember which), but most (probably over 90%) will go to a JuCo and then look to transfer to a major university where they can get immediate playing time. Cam Newton and Bruce Irvin from recent years both took that route ending up at Auburn and West Virginia respectively.

DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2013, 03:08 PM
  #32
Mathradio
Go Roy Munson!
 
Mathradio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,477
vCash: 500
Then again, is it common to do so in other sports!

Mathradio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-02-2013, 03:17 PM
  #33
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
RIP Kev
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 31,019
vCash: 2498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathradio View Post
Then again, is it common to do so in other sports!
Basketball yes, same thing, juco then transfer if they don't go to a lower tier school (NC A&T, etc).

Baseball no because of the way their draft works. A player selected late out of HS that doesn't have the academics will almost certainly sign to play in a rookie league somewhere instead of going the junior college route.

Hockey I would say "no, but". No it's not the same as it is in football in that regard, but if the player has the talent the CHL is an option for them. Not bashing, just being honest, some of these guys that last only a year or so in the NCAA before leaving (Thelen) are dumb as bricks. Some actually do so for their professional development too though, so I'm by no means painting all with the same brush, just saying that it does happen for that reason from time to time.

DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 06:41 PM
  #34
Mathradio
Go Roy Munson!
 
Mathradio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,477
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveG View Post
Actually happens more then one might think. A lot of the time if you hear that a school is "backing off" a recruit it's because they don't think they'll qualify academically to get in. Especially now that props are effectively gone from all the power conferences. It's why teams like Boise and pre-Pac12 Utah became teams able to hang with the big boys. They were in a conference that allowed for prop 48 players, which allowed them to load up on talent that otherwise fell through the cracks and otherwise may never have gotten the chance to play D1 ball.

The early committing that Mathradio is talking about though is almost exclusively a hockey and basketball thing. It's very rare to see a HS football player commit that far ahead of time. Mostly because you don't nearly as often see someone dominate the HS level as a freshman in football compared to other sports.

I can't remember if the SEC still allows props. I know the other 4 power conferences and the Big East do not.
How often do schools back off because that player turned out to be a marginal player?

Mathradio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-08-2013, 07:17 PM
  #35
le_sean
Registered User
 
le_sean's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Ottawa
Country: Vatican City State
Posts: 15,056
vCash: 500
During discussions of athletes and academics, I always get reminded of Leinart coming back for a 5th year and only having ballroom dancing as a course.

le_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
02-09-2013, 07:59 AM
  #36
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
RIP Kev
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 31,019
vCash: 2498
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathradio View Post
How often do schools back off because that player turned out to be a marginal player?
That happens as well, typically with skill position players. Either the player isn't producing as expected, or a better prospect that the team didn't expect to be able to sign is now looking likely to end up there. For example a junior WR can put up some monster stats as a product of a great senior QB, get all kinds of attention from big name schools early in the recruiting process, and all of a sudden when he's struggling his senior year with a weaker QB throwing to him some of the schools will move on to targets that they perceive to be better players.

DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-07-2013, 06:03 PM
  #37
Mathradio
Go Roy Munson!
 
Mathradio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,477
vCash: 500
What schools would dominate college football if NCAA required every school not to grant special admissions treatment to student-athletes (i.e. every student-athlete is forced to go through general admissions)?

I know Notre Dame and Stanford would be hurt, and I think Ivies will also be hurt to some extent.

Mathradio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2013, 01:28 AM
  #38
AdmiralsFan24
Registered User
 
AdmiralsFan24's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Wisconsin
Country: United States
Posts: 4,930
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to AdmiralsFan24
Every school in the AAU.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associa...n_Universities

AdmiralsFan24 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-08-2013, 09:12 AM
  #39
Mathradio
Go Roy Munson!
 
Mathradio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,477
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by AdmiralsFan24 View Post

Every school in the AAU would benefit from requiring all student-athletes to be competitive for general admissions or every school in the AAU be hurt by doing so?

I thought that Kansas, Missouri, Arizona, Iowa State and CU-Boulder (the one Div I school in the AAU that requires it already) would not feel the athletic effects of such a policy as much as Stanford, Notre Dame or the Ivies would... since they are not nearly as selective.

I knew there was an entire Div III conference comprised entirely of AAU members (UAA) and that Big 10 was entirely comprised of AAU members at one point, until Nebraska got ejected (the chancellor of Nebraska at the time of ejection cited the lack of an on-campus med school and mistreatment of agricultural research).

Mathradio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2013, 06:21 AM
  #40
Francesa
(╯□)╯︵ ʞooqǝɔɐℲ
 
Francesa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Country: United Kingdom
Posts: 179,680
vCash: 500
http://www.***********/r/CFB/comments...r_athletes_on/

Interesting Discussion

Francesa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2013, 01:35 PM
  #41
Chimaera
same ol' Caps
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: La Plata, Maryland
Country: United States
Posts: 21,698
vCash: 500
I'll step in this a tad late, but still in it.

As a high school teacher, I know that some of the athletes get every single advantage needed to make it.

Our school has programs to pay for athlete SAT/ACT tutoring, after school study hours (where tutors are paid to help kids in class), they monitor grades, they do a ton of stuff to get them there. Now, sure, there are some poor counties where they can't afford it, but in most locations, they're heavily invested in putting those athletes in colleges, because it looks good on the program and the school. They get a ton of money spent on them, and they're not really shy about it.

Chimaera is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
03-19-2013, 03:42 PM
  #42
Foy
Registered User
 
Foy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Country: United States
Posts: 20,951
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ixcuincle View Post
Sylvan LAndesberg got kicked off the team because of academics at UVA

Most get help or take easy majors
I know this is somewhat off topic, but I wanted to clear this up.

It wasn't straight up grades that got Landesberg cut off. He flat out refused to go to several of his classes, which was a big no-no for new coach Tony Bennett. My recollection of events was that Landesberg was initially suspended for refusing to go to class. Bennett flat out said that if Landesberg enrolled over the summer and got himself good enough grades that he would be welcome back to the team. Chose to drop out of school.

Both the football and basketball programs have very strict attendance policies.

Foy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-06-2013, 11:00 PM
  #43
Mathradio
Go Roy Munson!
 
Mathradio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,477
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Jones View Post
Yea, you generally know where a kid is going to be academically.

That said, the NCAA has very low academic standards, you can have a 2.5 and a 21 ACT and still qualify with them. Many schools, especially those in the SEC will take anybody who qualifies under NCAA clearinghouse rules.

Even schools that are more prestigious such as Cal and UCLA will accept players well below their typical admission standards. I saw a thing over on California Golden Blogs or somewhere stating that the average HS GPA on their team was like 3.3. That's not a bad GPA, but it's not one that will get you into top level universities.

Even so, these schools take players every year under academic exceptions that are well below those standards and barely qualify under NCAA standards.

Very few FBS colleges force students to pass through regular admissions. Some, such as Stanford force players to go through a very tough admissions process, but most players are still under below admission standards.

Actually, come to think of it the only school I know of that forces athletes to go through general admission is Colorado. Not surprisingly, they suck.
I think Tulane also does that; it's by far the toughest school to get into of all D1 FBS schools that force players to pass through regular admissions. Much, much tougher to get into than Colorado.

EDIT: Kansas admits normal students that wouldn't qualify under NCAA regulations.


Last edited by Mathradio: 06-07-2013 at 08:37 AM.
Mathradio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-23-2013, 04:17 PM
  #44
Mathradio
Go Roy Munson!
 
Mathradio's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 9,477
vCash: 500
Which one happens more often, a school backing off from a player for academic reasons or a school backing off from a player because he turned out to be a marginal player?

Mathradio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-24-2013, 08:48 AM
  #45
DaveG
Mod Supervisor
RIP Kev
 
DaveG's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Durham NC
Country: United States
Posts: 31,019
vCash: 2498
most schools scouting is good enough that they are usually on the ball before they are even offered a scholarship, so usually academic reasons. Now schools will tell players that "if we don't get our guys that we have in higher priority, we'll offer you a scholarship", and that's another matter entirely. If a school is unsure about their skill level they generally won't offer and push them towards being invited walk-ons. That said, if a player somehow was able to fool everyone and get a scholarship as a marginal prospect they'll probably be cut or encouraged to transfer to university at a lower level of competition whether it's from the SEC to say the MAC, or to FCS, Juco, or occasionally Div II or Div III.

DaveG is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:26 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.