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Lightning keep Jets grounded - 8-3 - "Hit the reset button"

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Old
02-02-2013, 09:57 AM
  #101
Gump Hasek
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Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
You did , Scheifele lined up at C to take the draw to open the third between Ladd and Little . He played well , spirited , forechecked well , went to the net , got PP time and imo certainly showed he should be used this way going forward.

IMO the JETS are better off to get his real baptism in , let him grow at this level and be fully prepared for next year by having top 6/9 , PP minutes this year.

Unlike most of the team , he visibly played hard , with energy and showed a high compete level. How is that bad?
+1

They should just shave this kid's head and then hold a press conference announcing that he will be staying with the team. Last night was perfect evidence of how he is capable of playing with a bit of confidence on his side. Taking him out of tryout limbo will only add to his confidence. Get it done, Chevy. The time for some change here is nigh.

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02-02-2013, 10:11 AM
  #102
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This game was all about goaltending. Pavelec simply didn't let us have a chance. Out of his 5 goals:

1) Was a tip in on the PP. Defense should've had the stick
2) Bad angle shot on the 5 on 3.
3) Completely out of position on a 5 on 3.
4) Tip on the PP. Again defense fault
5) Bad angle shot that went in the 5 hole

To me 3 out of 5 are clearly Pavelecs fault, and he should let at most one of those goals in per game in order for us to win. Tampa Bay was constantly trying tip in shots and east-west passing. Our defense doesn't track people properly in front of the goalie, we seem to ignore tip-ins.

I said it last year and I'll say it again, we really don't have a good goalie.

The positives out of this game? Our PK was great at tying up passing lanes, and was somewhat aggressive. They just have to be better in front of the net with tying up sticks. Our main Pker has to be better as well.

Scheifele was good. He had a couple icings and at least one giveaway, but his faceoffs were great. He seemed to win the majority of them pretty clean, and the ones he lost weren't clean at all. His forecheck was good, zone entry was good, backchecking was good, just his timing is off with shots. One thing I noticed with Scheifele that I really liked is if it's two on two coming into our zone and he's third man in, he'll put the brakes on a bit and cover their third man. I don't think I ever see any Jets do this. His vision/IQ will be the highest on our team in the future. He also needs to work on staying further away from the puck carrier. Often he's too close to receive a pass, or he slows down the puck carrier through the neutral zone.


Last edited by allan5oh: 02-02-2013 at 10:20 AM.
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02-02-2013, 10:26 AM
  #103
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It became clear to me last night, that the ONLY solution to the Jets woes will have to come from GM Kevin Cheveldayoff. Lets face it guys, we do not have the right combination of players. I have a gut feeling that we will need to say goodbye to some key players in order to make some blockbuster trades that will benefit the team long term. Its also time to spend some of David Thomson's money!
I disagree with this. At this time I think the team has talent in the right areas (some players are obviously underperforming by a country mile).

I see Chevy as giving Claude a team that has size, speed, youth and now a mix of some veteran size. Sure, some players are fairly interchangeable but overall I truly believe the talent on the ice should be able to -make- the playoffs this year.

Injuries to D non-withstanding, most of the issue I see right now stems from coaching. Specifically, strategy against some teams is severely lacking. Special team setup is horrendous. The energy when the the team is away is lethargic at best.

Further to that the teams greatest issues are STILL unresolved from last year (even with some new players sprinkled on the team.)

I really like Noel, but I have lost faith in him entirely this season. Repetitive issues that I'm personally seeing are only going to be resolved by good, solid, fundamental guidance.

Let me ask you this.... how do you think our record would be with let's say... Paul Maclean as the Jet's coach?

When I ask myself that sort of question I instantly imagine an improvement in special teams, and a better transition game that utilizes, and defends the neutral zone much more effectively. I also see a game that would be much less wide open, however more effective and disciplined.

I hope I am wrong, but now into year two we are seeing developmental and strategic issues that are still largely unresolved.

Conversely I don't think changing 2-3 players is going to improve this team's record ONE bit. (Unless you are fanatasy drafting). Change the coach? It won't happen; I realize this but my greatest frustration in watching them chase their tails this year is what I consider to be a failure in coaching at the top.

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02-02-2013, 10:30 AM
  #104
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Well, one problem with this current roster is that they were formed under Waddel's vision of popularizing hockey in the deep south and developed a losing attitude/culture in the process. This new management should want to instill a winning culture, to do that they need to develop players in the juniors. It will be unpleasant for them there, but that's the whole point, If they start plopping players like Scheiffele and Trouba early on, sure they'll be happy and rich and all but they'll certainly not develop fully into true players with a deep sense for winning.

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02-02-2013, 10:50 AM
  #105
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When the 3rd highest scoring D man on the team has more points than all but 3 forwards on the team you have a problem, Jets forwards truly are overrated, there big, some can skate but the majority don't seem to have a lot of fight or a lot of will to win.

What PMO is not that we lost the last three but HOW we lost the last three, undisciplined hockey with forwards not willing to pay the price to get us back into the game when we were down, the way this team plays they may as well be the smallest team in the league none seem to want to hit. Goal-tending is also the big issue, Pav's has given us 5 periods of good goal-tending and 15 periods of poor/shaky goal-tending. 3.55 GAA, .888 SV %


Last edited by sipowicz: 02-02-2013 at 10:57 AM.
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02-02-2013, 11:00 AM
  #106
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
When the 3rd highest scoring D man on the team has more points than all but 3 forwards on the team you have a problem, Jets forwards truly are overrated, there big, some can skate but the majority don't seem to have a lot of fight or a lot of will to win.
You have a problem, agreed. But overrated ? This team has come back from (unnecessary ) 2 goal deficits. This team has taken Boston to O.T. on the road, and beat the Pens at home.

The same team has lost horrendously to bottom tier teams.

That would not indicate an overrated offense to me, and it's simply too much to call it 'luck' against good teams.

You know where I'm going with this (see my post above). It's in the same vein as 'Will to win'. Is that a talent issue? Or a leadership issue?

I would have to imagine if you are one of those guys in the dressing room, right now you are wondering 'what is wrong?'. Why aren't we turning this around? Why can we hang with the best in the league, then look like an AHL team the next night?

The team needs the sort of direction that will get them further away from that kind of thinking and closer to something that resembles *confidence* and *purpose* within a *system* that you can hang your hat on and go out on the ice with less doubt.

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02-02-2013, 11:00 AM
  #107
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Everyone needs to take a step back and calm down. It was one game (or one road trip).

Lets move on. Tuesday is another game.

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02-02-2013, 11:01 AM
  #108
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I hope I am wrong, but now into year two we are seeing developmental and strategic issues that are still largely unresolved.

Conversely I don't think changing 2-3 players is going to improve this team's record ONE bit. (Unless you are fanatasy drafting). Change the coach? It won't happen; I realize this but my greatest frustration in watching them chase their tails this year is what I consider to be a failure in coaching at the top.
Under your assesment coaching is the reason for developmental and strategic issues not being resolved. But I would suggest that due to coaching the games we do play well in is done with a very mediocre team as a whole that overachieves at times. Craig Ramsay didn't have any success with these players. Claude Noel isn't having any success with these players. What does that tell you?

ps...I really like the players we have as they have heart & the desire to win, but they just don't have enough talent & skill to win.


Last edited by KBADCJET: 02-02-2013 at 11:07 AM.
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02-02-2013, 11:03 AM
  #109
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I dont know how we are going to get him but I hope we can grab getslaf at the free agency. Getslaf and Ladd have proven chemestry between them

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02-02-2013, 11:04 AM
  #110
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Originally Posted by KBADCJET View Post
Under your assesment coaching is the reason for developmental and strategic issues not being resolved. But I would suggest that due to coaching the games we do play well in is done with a very mediocre team as a whole that overachieves at times. Craig Ramsay didn't have any success with these players. Claude Noel isn't having any success with these players. What does that tell you?
Well they aren't the same players. Some are different, and a good handful have definitely matured.

I will tell you this, there isn't a lot for systematic play going on out there. There's a lot of running around, doing whatever works at the moment.

I see a lot of people want to pull the trigger on a lot of players that I could easily see haunting us on different teams.

But to answer your question: For the time being this tells me quite clearly that Noel is not the coach for this team.

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02-02-2013, 11:05 AM
  #111
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+1

They should just shave this kid's head and then hold a press conference announcing that he will be staying with the team. Last night was perfect evidence of how he is capable of playing with a bit of confidence on his side. Taking him out of tryout limbo will only add to his confidence. Get it done, Chevy. The time for some change here is nigh.

We agree.

IMO the benefits of growth , experience and productivity should mean Mark gets a regular , meaningful slot for the last 40 games. Really , what is he going to get from being in Barrie for far less games than that? He has dominated there and NHL time will advance him more and more quickly than playing against competition where he is not as challenged. He has done that , and excelled at that , very little future development would occur imo.

His spirit , energy , competitivenss and leadership would be a welcomed addition to a team that has not yet truly created the identity management wants and is working towards. Part of the answer , not part of the problem , plus it would be nice to actually have a C that will create and distribute the puck well and use his wingers.

It's time to build. Scheifele is a major building block and ready to be put in place imo.

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Old
02-02-2013, 11:09 AM
  #112
sipowicz
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Burmi: 8 games, 1 goal, 0 assists

Last 29 games as a Jet, 2 goals, 4 assists

Overrated I think so, if you guys think he is a key piece of the puzzle I don't know.


Last edited by sipowicz: 02-02-2013 at 11:14 AM.
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02-02-2013, 11:13 AM
  #113
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Its still early. One thing that is troubling is how they have played the last two games (maybe three).

I, like many, saw a much different team in wins over Washington, Pitt, and NYI. Especially against the Caps, though i guess you could argue the Caps were just awful, where their forecheck and structured play was impressive. In their other wins, they didn't waver. They continued to play, and had success.

Now, it appears they are okay with losing. The effort isn't there. The compete level isnt near where it needs to be. I was sitting on my couch watching the game last night and thought, 'Wow, Scheifele looks like one of (if not the) best forwards for Jet last night. Is that a good thing, or a bad thing?

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02-02-2013, 11:14 AM
  #114
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Well they aren't the same players. Some are different, and a good handful have definitely matured.
True enough, but the core of this team is still the Atlanta Thrashers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jetkarma View Post
It's time to build. Scheifele is a major building block and ready to be put in place imo.
Agreed! Plus move Big Buff back to the forward line. We NEED that big frame in front of opposing goalies!

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02-02-2013, 11:21 AM
  #115
sipowicz
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Wellwood:

5 games, 0 goals, 1 assist

Last 23 games as a Jet

6 goals, 6 assists

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02-02-2013, 11:25 AM
  #116
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Everyone needs to take a step back and calm down. It was one game (or one road trip).

Lets move on. Tuesday is another game.
I'm with you, sir..

We weren't going to win every road game. Let's see how we do when Byfug and Bogo are back in the lineup and Stuart-Postma are our 3rd pairing.

My feeling,in hindsight, is that Pavelec should've kept playing hot instead of sitting the NYI game.

We are still a playoff team.

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02-02-2013, 11:34 AM
  #117
sipowicz
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Jets Centre position

equivalent to 56 games played, 6 goals, 9 assists

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02-02-2013, 11:36 AM
  #118
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Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Burmi: 8 games, 1 goal, 0 assists

Last 29 games as a Jet, 2 goals, 4 assists

Overrated I think so, if you guys think he is a key piece of the puzzle I don't know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by sipowicz View Post
Wellwood:

5 games, 0 goals, 1 assist

Last 23 games as a Jet

6 goals, 6 assists
Your sentiments are well known, but, just like last year, the Jets' problem is not scoring, it is defending. They are 4th in the conference in GF and dead last in GA.

They need to have better goaltending, get Bogo and Buff back and upgrade Clitsome. It'd be nice to have burmi and welly score, but that is not the cause of our current woes.

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02-02-2013, 11:59 AM
  #119
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Your sentiments are well known, but, just like last year, the Jets' problem is not scoring, it is defending. They are 4th in the conference in GF and dead last in GA.

They need to have better goaltending, get Bogo and Buff back and upgrade Clitsome. It'd be nice to have burmi and welly score, but that is not the cause of our current woes.
To me, Pavelec looked lazy and not ready last night. I understand that there are bad bounces now and again, but I have serious concerns about Pavelec's demeanor and approach. I hope I'm wrong.

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02-02-2013, 12:18 PM
  #120
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A lot of people are ragging on Pavelec... and Montoya.

I am not the 'Goalie defense lawyer' however, I honestly think you could put Vladislov Tretyiak (sp?) in his PRIME on this team and he would look like a shooter tutor.

There is no clean defensive system (sorry I sound like a broken record). Watching the jets in front of their own net I find myself yelling at the TV. Then often watching them break out of their zone has me throwing large spongy objects at the tv.

What goalie do you guys think would really turn this team around? Does he have super powers? Perhaps he's been exposed to gamma radiation, or simply the ability to time travel? Is he even on this planet?

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02-02-2013, 12:42 PM
  #121
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The defenisve issues with the Jets are pretty obvious at this point. They are just an incredibly soft defensive team - particularly without Buff. All I see during these games is Jet forwards getting rubbed out along the boards as they enter the opposing teams zone, but when the opposing forwards move into our zone nobody touches them. I watched last night while one of the TB players moved along the board into our zone while Enstrom skated backwards five feet away from him trying to poke the puck away all the way to the goal line. I know, Enstrom doesn't play a physical game, but come on at least impede his progress. You don't have to flatten people but don't let them free skate at will...its not just the PK that needs to be more aggresive.

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02-02-2013, 01:02 PM
  #122
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The defenisve issues with the Jets are pretty obvious at this point. They are just an incredibly soft defensive team - particularly without Buff. All I see during these games is Jet forwards getting rubbed out along the boards as they enter the opposing teams zone, but when the opposing forwards move into our zone nobody touches them. I watched last night while one of the TB players moved along the board into our zone while Enstrom skated backwards five feet away from him trying to poke the puck away all the way to the goal line. I know, Enstrom doesn't play a physical game, but come on at least impede his progress. You don't have to flatten people but don't let them free skate at will...its not just the PK that needs to be more aggresive.
I saw Enstrom rub out some guys on the boards?
He just poke checks more often because he ends up with the puck more often that way... and plus his size doesn't make him super great at the physical play haha.

I thought the PK was actually ok... except for one of the 6 players. Think about it. They almost had 4 minutes of 3v5, and BARELY had any shots and very few of them were dangerous, against one of the most offensive teams in the league... just some floaters ended up in the net.

I know some have talked about "lack" of defensive system, but really it's there and coming slowly, just doesn't help when your goalies are letting in almost every second shot...
I still have faith in Pavelec... his major issue comes from positioning and I saw him do well in that in our last road trip... so if he can get back to that I think he can sturdy around ~.915-.920 which with Byfuglien and Bogosian returned should be well enough to get into the playoffs.

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02-02-2013, 01:07 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Prot View Post
A lot of people are ragging on Pavelec... and Montoya.

I am not the 'Goalie defense lawyer' however, I honestly think you could put Vladislov Tretyiak (sp?) in his PRIME on this team and he would look like a shooter tutor.

There is no clean defensive system (sorry I sound like a broken record). Watching the jets in front of their own net I find myself yelling at the TV. Then often watching them break out of their zone has me throwing large spongy objects at the tv.

What goalie do you guys think would really turn this team around? Does he have super powers? Perhaps he's been exposed to gamma radiation, or simply the ability to time travel? Is he even on this planet?
Nobody is asking for a Vezina winner. Pavelec has been awful the last 3 games..and when he needed to make a routine save to keep us in the game, he simply couldn't get the job done. I never really understood the Pavelec love last year...he's an average goalie and statistically amongst the league's worst starters. Sure, he makes some dynamic saves once in awhile and has kept us in games we perhaps didn't deserve to be in but for every one of those games, he's cost us in games where he couldn't make the save when needed.

I agree that he's not the only problem - he's facing 35 shots per night - but I'm confident that if you were to take any one of the top 10 goalies in the league and put them in against MTL or FLA, we come out with 2-4 points on this trip, and we're trending towards the playoffs.

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02-02-2013, 01:32 PM
  #124
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What's really sad is that if you remove the PP we out-chanced and out-possessed their team, especially in the third...



That's right guys...
Remove the poor PK and poor goaltending and we could have won...

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02-02-2013, 01:34 PM
  #125
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I agree that Pavelec has been playing awful in the last 3 games & allowing some routine saves to beat him.

I still however think that the Jets defense has hung him out to dry many times & is not doing their job clearing opposing players from the front of the net for him.
It is obviously a confidence killer for him right now & he is questioning himself.

Hopefully when Byfuglien & Bogosian come back this will stop & they can make players pay for standing in front of Pavelec.

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