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Redmond & Postma > Hainsey & Clitsome?

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02-02-2013, 12:33 AM
  #1
HPsauce
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Redmond & Postma > Hainsey & Clitsome?

One highlight (for me) from this evenings debacle, was at one point Noel had Redmond and Postma together, Burmi was also on the ice with them. The chemistry was pretty amazing, they looked a lot like Buff and Toby when it came to holding the opposition in their zone.

Clitsome and Hainsey have been pretty brutal so far this season.

It's odd how much their games have changed since last season. Both used to be very physical.

What's better?

Toby Buff
Hainsey Bogo
Clitsome Stu

-or-

Toby Buff
Stu Bogo
Redmond Postma

Personally, the fact that some people will write off postma and redmond as "offense first" is moot. The bottom line is that they are more capable players.

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02-02-2013, 12:55 AM
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Lynk
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I think the bottom line is many of you have seen 2 games out of these guys and are jumping the gun a littttttle tooo quickly.

They. Have. Potential.

Looking for a silver lining in games like these is always nice, but it also usually causes extreme brash reactions.

Clitsome, yes. He unfortunately has never looked good (except of course in those first 2 or 3 games when we picked him up last season).


Last edited by Lynk: 02-02-2013 at 01:02 AM.
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02-02-2013, 01:01 AM
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I've seen them play much more then two games.

Hainsey and Clitsome look totally lost out there.

Even if i had only seen them play two games, i'd rather roll with them over the potential-less Hainsey and Clitsome.

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02-02-2013, 01:05 AM
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Lynk
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Ah well, we'll find out soon enough anyways right.

Hainsey will be gone by the deadline most likely and then we can probably see Bogo with Redmond and Stu with Postma.

Just a matter of time at this point.

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02-02-2013, 01:10 AM
  #5
HPsauce
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynk View Post
Ah well, we'll find out soon enough anyways right.

Hainsey will be gone by the deadline most likely and then we can probably see Bogo with Redmond and Stu with Postma.

Just a matter of time at this point.
Trading Hainsey would be fantastic. I assume he wouldn't draw much in return, a 3rd possibly.

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02-02-2013, 02:41 AM
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Hainsey would garner more than a 3rd... after all Hainsey is worth more than Oduya (or Stuart) and remember what we got for Oduya. Also remember there is a high price on D-men right now as everyone wants to shore up their depth. We kind of ***** CHI for Oduya so my guess is we'd get similar value for Hainsey (haha involuntary acts of is censored).

Hainsey is on average a #4 on most teams, results-wise. Stuart, Postma, Redmond and Clitsome are not. Most scouts put Postma and Redmond's ceiling as above average #4s or low #3s...
The only time Ron would look "lost" to a lot of people, is that some don't realize that Noel buries Hainsey in the defensive zone because he trusts Hainsey there, which in turn pushes everyone else into the offensive zone making their job that much easier to minimize defensive threats and maximize there offensive chances... ie: Noel's usage of Hainsey will tend to make Hainsey look worse and the rest better defensively then they actually are because Hainsey tends to be in the defensive zone all the time.

Personally what I'd do until one of Byfuglien or Bogosian returns:
Enstrom - Postma
Hainsey - Redmond
Stuart - Clitsome
You could use these lines similarly to how Noel already prefers to use his defense. Postma can create offense with Enstrom. Redmond isn't as good as Bogosian but he's a very good decision maker which is why I'd like him on the second to be the puck mover for that pair. Stuart can be a sturdy partner for Clitsome and can (hopefully) teach/guide Clitsome to minimize his errors.

Then when Byfuglien returns you can do:
Enstrom - Byfuglien
Hainsey - Postma
Stuart - Redmond
Clitsome
You then would split the match-ups for the 2nd and 3rd pair. If Noel wants to use his usual match-ups, then switch Postma and Redmond (which I'm kinda 50/50 on right now).

Then when Bogosian returns you can do:
Enstrom - Byfuglien
Hainsey - Bogosian
Stuart - Redmond/Postma
Clitsome - Redmond/Postma
And questions about our defensive depth all of a sudden disappear.

Then (if Scheifele stays up and Miettinen returns) you can package Wellwood and Clitsome for an upgrade some where... or better yet add in Hainsey and see if you can get a LHD who is young with potential (AKA a LHD version of Postma/Redmond***) (quantity for quality seems to work in HFBoards land haha)


To answer your Q though.
Overall: Hainsey > Redmond = Postma > Clitsome
Offense: Postma > Redmond > Hainsey > Clitsome
Defense: Hainsey >> Redmond > Postma > Clitsome


Last edited by garret9: 02-06-2013 at 12:42 AM. Reason: ***Redmond not Clitsome
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Old
02-02-2013, 06:46 AM
  #7
King Woodballs
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There is no way Hainsey is a #4 on a legit stanley cup contender

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02-02-2013, 07:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynk View Post
Ah well, we'll find out soon enough anyways right.

Hainsey will be gone by the deadline most likely and then we can probably see Bogo with Redmond and Stu with Postma.

Just a matter of time at this point.
Trading Ron Hainsey will be EXTREMELY difficult. He is being paid 4-5 Million this year and is not producing. I wish Winnipeg would have just bought him out but all he adds is salary floor cap

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02-02-2013, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Burmistrov08 View Post
Trading Ron Hainsey will be EXTREMELY difficult. He is being paid 4-5 Million this year and is not producing. I wish Winnipeg would have just bought him out but all he adds is salary floor cap
I think he is bring paid 3 million this year with a cap hit of 4.5

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02-02-2013, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynk View Post
They. Have. Potential.
What does this mean with the periods in between each word??

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02-02-2013, 07:27 AM
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Scheifele55
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Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post
I think he is bring paid 3 million this year with a cap hit of 4.5
I see that he dropped from 5M to 3M i take it this is the final year of his contract?

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02-02-2013, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post
There is no way Hainsey is a #4 on a legit stanley cup contender
Probably not, no.

But we would have a cup contender D with this lineup:

Enström - Buff
good 2nd unit LHD - Bogosian
Hainsey - Stuart/Postma
Redmond

This D COULD win a cup.

We don't have this good 2nd unit LHD unfortunately

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02-02-2013, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post
There is no way Hainsey is a #4 on a legit stanley cup contender
Maybe not, but he is a perfectly fine fourth D on most teams with legitimate playoff aspirations.
The coupling of Clitsome and Hainsey together in this thread is just wrong, IMO. By almost any objective measure, Hainsey is a better, safer D than Clitsome ever was. Why he is such a lightning rod for criticism is baffling.
BTW, I'd be perfectly fine to trade Hainsey for real value if we have a losing record by game 20, precisely because he has high worth in this market and because we are still building for the future.

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02-02-2013, 10:03 AM
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I would have to say I find Stuart's play much more frusterating than Hainsey at this point.

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02-02-2013, 10:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post
I think he is bring paid 3 million this year with a cap hit of 4.5
Exactly. Not only that, but he is actually only being paid a prorated amount of that $3 million - based upon a fewer number of games played this season.

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02-02-2013, 10:44 AM
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I also think it would be hard to move Hainsey at this point.

I think he might be more suited to playing 3rd tier minutes along with Stuart.

I also agree that we need a capable 2nd pairing LHD... I want Leddy.

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02-02-2013, 10:50 AM
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Hainsey should be easy to flip at the deadline. Teams are always looking to bolster their defense for the playoffs and would only be on the hook for $600-800k in salary. Oduya fetched a couple of second rounders. It depends on his play obviously, but he should be worth a second.

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02-02-2013, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gil Fisher View Post
Hainsey should be easy to flip at the deadline. Teams are always looking to bolster their defense for the playoffs and would only be on the hook for $600-800k in salary. Oduya fetched a couple of second rounders. It depends on his play obviously, but he should be worth a second.
I would rather resign Hainsey than trade him for a second. Second round draft picks have a poor likelihood of ever contributing on an NHL level. In Wpg/Atl's case, the historical likelihood approaches zero! Hains is worth more than that.

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02-02-2013, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
I would rather resign Hainsey than trade him for a second. Second round draft picks have a poor likelihood of ever contributing on an NHL level. In Wpg/Atl's case, the historical likelihood approaches zero! Hains is worth more than that.
He may well be worth more than that, a lot depends on his play over the next two months.

I'd rather have a couple of draft picks and $3m to spend in the summer than Hainsey extended.

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02-02-2013, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
I would rather resign Hainsey than trade him for a second. Second round draft picks have a poor likelihood of ever contributing on an NHL level. In Wpg/Atl's case, the historical likelihood approaches zero! Hains is worth more than that.
You can get some gems in the 2nd round, though i agree the Thrashers/Jets have yet to see that.

For me, it all depends what the market is for him, and whether he is willing to sign. If he's like Slater and might re-sign, then by all means sign him to a fair contract. If he's going to check the market and move on, then a 2nd and 3rd (Oduya deal) is better than truly nothing.

You can use the extra picks to move draft positions or gain prospects, etc.

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02-02-2013, 11:27 AM
  #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scelaton View Post
I would rather resign Hainsey than trade him for a second. Second round draft picks have a poor likelihood of ever contributing on an NHL level. In Wpg/Atl's case, the historical likelihood approaches zero! Hains is worth more than that.
Not to derail this thread too far, but I'm interested in acquiring more draft picks to give Chevy flexibility on draft day to move around and pick up guys that he feels will be impact players. Whether that's moving up spots in the first round or packaging a bunch of seconds to get another first rounder. Otherwise I agree that a second rounder in a vacuum will not solve all our problems.

Edit1: Not to mention that all those picks could be traded to land a real life player (for those of you who hate draft picks).

Edit2: And I'm not advocating dumping players for more picks unless we are already out of it at the deadline and those players are not identified as being part of the longer term plan (i.e. re-signed).


Last edited by Stej: 02-02-2013 at 11:38 AM.
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02-02-2013, 12:36 PM
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Hainsey and Ladd will never get the respect they deserve.

If we're out of it at the deadline, fine move Hainsey, but we need a player at least that good, or better in the off season. Not so easily done.

Hainsy will get a decent return because he's in demand. in demand means short supply. short supply means less chance of getting something equal or better.

frankly my wishlist would go
Improvement on Hainsy + draft pick
Improvement on Hainsy
Wash + Draft pick
downgrade + draft pick
downgrade

Unfortunately i think the bottom three are more likely to happen this off season then we're willing to believe.

That being said, not moving Hainsey doesn't mean he'll resign with us, so i guess he's almost worth shipping out no matter what.

Either way

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02-02-2013, 12:41 PM
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garret9
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Originally Posted by King Woodballs View Post
There is no way Hainsey is a #4 on a legit stanley cup contender
I said on most teams he averages out to a 4, so he'd be a 3-5 on probably 80% of teams.

There are a ridiculous amount of variables on that too. It takes a whole team and no team is perfect top to bottom.
For example I'd say that CBJ have a top 10 defensive depth in the league... but lacking almost everywhere else.

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02-02-2013, 12:42 PM
  #24
garret9
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Let's see how Hainsey would fit on team's 2011-12 rosters.
I'll split defensively and offensively as guys are brought in for different reasons... Remember this isn't by your "preference" in style, but by actual results (so example net clearing, shot blocking Stuart < effective Hainsey who has lacks some things we desire)

Defensively (ie: "beating" {out-chancing} tough minutes/matchups {stat heads >0RelQoC}):
*ANA #3/4
*BOS #4
*BUF #3/4
*CAR #1/2
*CBJ #3
*CGY #1/2
*CHI #5 (still beats Oduya!!)
*COL #2
*DAL #4
*DET #5
*EDM #3
*FLO #3
*LAK #4
*MIN #1 (poor poor Suter)
*MTL #3
*NJD #6
*NSH #3
*NYI #3/4
*NYR #5 (wow Staal got pummelled hardcore relative to the rest of the D)
*OTT #3/4
*PHI #5 (if Pronger had played)
*PHO #4/5
*PIT #3/4
*SJS #4/5
*STL #5/6
*TBL #2
*TOR #3
*VAN #5
*WPG #4
*WSH #2/3

Offensively (ie: even strength point production {stat heads 5v5 p/60})
*ANA #5
*BOS #4
*BUF #5
*CAR #5
*CBJ #6
*CGY #4
*CHI #6 (Oduya wins )
*COL #4
*DAL #4
*DET #5
*EDM #5
*FLO #4
*LAK #4
*MIN #3
*MTL #4
*NJD #4
*NSH #4
*NYI #4
*NYR #5
*OTT #5
*PHI #6 (if Pronger had played)
*PHO #5
*PIT #5
*SJS #4
*STL #4
*TBL #3
*TOR #4
*VAN #5
*WPG #4
*WSH #4

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02-02-2013, 12:47 PM
  #25
Stej
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grind View Post
Hainsey and Ladd will never get the respect they deserve.

If we're out of it at the deadline, fine move Hainsey, but we need a player at least that good, or better in the off season. Not so easily done.

Hainsy will get a decent return because he's in demand. in demand means short supply. short supply means less chance of getting something equal or better.

frankly my wishlist would go
Improvement on Hainsy + draft pick
Improvement on Hainsy
Wash + Draft pick
downgrade + draft pick
downgrade

Unfortunately i think the bottom three are more likely to happen this off season then we're willing to believe.

That being said, not moving Hainsey doesn't mean he'll resign with us, so i guess he's almost worth shipping out no matter what.

Either way
I think the organization will have a good read on whether or not Hainsey would be willing to come back next year and act accordingly. We simply can't afford to lose a top 4 D for nothing.

My gut feeling is that he will choose to move on, but that is baseless speculation.

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