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Old
02-02-2013, 01:41 AM
  #476
Cin
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Originally Posted by bigg44 View Post
mark's a funny guy:



Stepneski might need a "who are these guys?" avatar.
retire his number!

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02-02-2013, 01:47 AM
  #477
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What's the difference between a 4 and a 4.5mil defenseman?
If I may clarify:

Nowhere did I say he's "worth" the $4m+ range or that he's a bona fide $4m d-man. $4-4.1 m would've been the highest I'd have expected him getting paid considering his leverage, the market, and the 30-40 pts production capacity (yes, I don't think he ever hits the 40 or 40+ pt mark with us. Love to be proven wrong). Would that $4.0.-4.1 have been "fair?" (Grudgingly) Yes. Seeing as he gets near $5m in his last two years....I just hope we have a better squad by then.

I'd have been pretty pleased with a $3.5m hit seeing he had yet to prove much coming from a thumb injury.


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02-02-2013, 02:03 AM
  #478
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I seriously have no idea. Now I honestly feel like I wasted my time.

$500K .....
I'm sorry you felt like you wasted your time. Honestly, this "$X m player" or "$Y m player" notations make no sense to me. I think I already clarified my statement. That said, money saved is money used for some other player, and if $0.5m sends you scurrying for a smiley, then we have to wonder why our management at one point was haggling over $0.2m/year with Benn.

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02-02-2013, 02:11 AM
  #479
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then we have to wonder why our management at one point was haggling over $0.2m/year with Benn.
I've seen no indication that is an accurate statement. Every media report I'm aware of locally and from the national media indicated the dispute was over term which is supremely important.

I'm sorry if you didn't like me making a joke about the situation. We are talking about a value that is less than 1% of next year's salary cap and below the current league minimum contract.

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02-02-2013, 02:25 AM
  #480
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I've seen no indication that is an accurate statement. Every media report I'm aware of locally and from the national media indicated the dispute was over term which is supremely important.
I thought I had used the term "allegedly" in my statement, but I think I deleted it while trying to modify my sentence.

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We are talking about a value that is less than 1% of next year's salary cap and below the current league minimum contract.
Yes, but it is not like management or players don't haggle over increments we fans may consider trivial or only x% of the cap. For example, why is Strait extending at $0.775m/yr? Why not $1m? After all, $0.225m is only etc. etc.


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02-02-2013, 03:02 AM
  #481
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I seriously have no idea. Now I honestly feel like I wasted my time.

$500K .....

Ehh ... it's fun though to think about. I always love talking contract numbers. Can't wait until next summer. Reilly Smith will be a fascinating debate up until the actual contract is signed. The burned year had some people pretty angry, but it could turn out to be benefit if it lands him a bridge deal.

This summer though ... with the retirement contracts off the table for younger players, it'll be interesting to see where guys slide in with AAV. I'm not too thrilled with the possibilities after seeing the Lupul and Zajac money. However, the Edler deal was a pleasant surprise.
Let's have Reilly Smith accomplish something on the NHL level before we worry about paying him anything more than ~$1M a year.

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02-02-2013, 04:14 AM
  #482
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So Goligoski has been terrible, but is there any way he can turn it around? I'm not sure if it's bench time, reduced minutes, just making him practice until his hands bleed, etc. Frankly, I think a coaching change to someone who knows how to bring along defensemen well will be the best thing for him, though that's pretty drastic. Our defense is awful though and it would be nice to find a coach who can cover up our defensive flaws or maximize our D-men's potential. Then again maybe all this is is overexposure for every single defenseman that is playing one position up from where they should.

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02-02-2013, 08:55 AM
  #483
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Let's have Reilly Smith accomplish something on the NHL level before we worry about paying him anything more than ~$1M a year.
I didn't put a price on the guy. His contract is going to be interesting to me regardless of the AAV.

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02-02-2013, 09:05 AM
  #484
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So Goligoski has been terrible, but is there any way he can turn it around? I'm not sure if it's bench time, reduced minutes, just making him practice until his hands bleed, etc. Frankly, I think a coaching change to someone who knows how to bring along defensemen well will be the best thing for him, though that's pretty drastic. Our defense is awful though and it would be nice to find a coach who can cover up our defensive flaws or maximize our D-men's potential. Then again maybe all this is is overexposure for every single defenseman that is playing one position up from where they should.
All for a coaching change, but would that be enough? Is Dallas just unlucky with defenders or are there some flaws with the organization beyond coaching?

Niskanen, Fistric, and Vishnovsky were failures in Dallas. Grossman was just a guy, but at least a mostly solid guy. Niskanen and Grossman both look like much better defenders as soon as they leave Dallas. Goligoski was a quality offensive defender, brought that attribute to Dallas and had some success here, but his skills deteriorate the longer he's here. Daley is a successful Top 4 defender, but we can all see he has untapped potential on offense. This is all over the course over 3 NHL head coaches, and several different AHL programs.

I don't know that there is a way to answer the question, but one reasonable answer could be Dallas' amateur scouts were failing at picking the right guys. Other than Bernhardt I really don't know how much turnover the Stars have had with scouts.

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02-02-2013, 10:25 AM
  #485
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Originally Posted by BigG44 View Post
Your options were to sign Goligoski to a similar contract or lose him this coming season for nothing. Like him or not, and right now I'm not his biggest fan, you're not going to lose the asset you mistakenly acquired for James Neal for nothing.
....
It's a situation you can't win. His current contract isn't the issue. His current play is, and that should be something a good coaching staff can help him overcome. Do we have that in Dallas? That's a legitimate concern.
I agree with all of this. His contract isn't a problem today. It's not like they would have used that money for a better player

I think they also paid him at a time when he looked to be in a bit of a slump, but they expected his play to bounce back to what it was when he was acquired. They paid him to stay, to justify the trade, to hit the cap floor, and because they probably never would have guessed his play would get worse and worse.

Secretly, Nieuwy probably wants a do over on the trade and the extension, but not even the biggest pessimist would have predicted Goligoski looking this bad. If he had known Goligoski would start to look more and more like Andy Delmore without the offense, future Nieuwy would have built a time machine to go back and warn himself of the problem.

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02-02-2013, 10:59 AM
  #486
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Well, the good news is, if he really sucks this bad for the rest of the year, we can use a compliance buyout.

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02-02-2013, 11:14 AM
  #487
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There is no way in hell we buyout Goligoski. You guys are getting really out of hand here.

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02-02-2013, 11:46 AM
  #488
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There is no way in hell we buyout Goligoski. You guys are getting really out of hand here.
Agreed. We're stuck with him, and all just have to hope he can regain his form. Idk what that will take, but it needs to happen.

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02-02-2013, 11:47 AM
  #489
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Cap comparables to Alex "Holy **** I'm making 4.6 million" Goligoski.

Bieksa. Garrison. Coburn. Tyutin. Pitkanen. Hamhuis. Kronwall.

In short, Goligoski is massively overpaid considering he only produces a handful more points than any of these guys (if that) AND is not great defensively.

Grossmann is getting paid to do one thing, and that one thing is shut down Evgeni Malkin every time the Flyers and Pens play.

He's literally turned into Niskanen The Left Hand Shot Edition. A bit less of the deer in headlights bit though.

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02-02-2013, 11:57 AM
  #490
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Cap comparables to Alex "Holy **** I'm making 4.6 million" Goligoski.

Bieksa. Garrison. Coburn. Tyutin. Pitkanen. Hamhuis. Kronwall.

In short, Goligoski is massively overpaid considering he only produces a handful more points than any of these guys (if that) AND is not great defensively.

Grossmann is getting paid to do one thing, and that one thing is shut down Evgeni Malkin every time the Flyers and Pens play.

He's literally turned into Niskanen The Left Hand Shot Edition. A bit less of the deer in headlights bit though.
Being overpaid isn't a huge deal right now. I'd like to see Goligoski get 10 or 12 games with a legitimate D partner before right him off. Niskanen was fine playing with Zubov. By all accounts he's done well playing with the Penguins because they have competent defensemen. Goligoski may never anchor a D pairing, but there's not reason he can't be productive given a partner other than Robidas.

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02-02-2013, 12:21 PM
  #491
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Being overpaid isn't a huge deal right now. I'd like to see Goligoski get 10 or 12 games with a legitimate D partner before right him off. Niskanen was fine playing with Zubov. By all accounts he's done well playing with the Penguins because they have competent defensemen. Goligoski may never anchor a D pairing, but there's not reason he can't be productive given a partner other than Robidas.
Exactly. I say find the guy a physical defensive minded d partner and loosen the reigns on him. He is making more mistakes trying to be conservative than when he is aggressive.

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02-02-2013, 02:11 PM
  #492
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Niskanen is only good playing with Letang. There's your answer as to why he's "turned out".

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02-02-2013, 02:20 PM
  #493
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Our defense has been our "Achilles heel" for many years now, and try as he might, GM Joe still hasn't come up with a working formula that prevents Kari from being peppered in each and every start.

Once he finds that missing piece, I'm hoping we see a resurrection of Goligoski's playing ability that was apparent in the games following the deal.

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02-02-2013, 03:48 PM
  #494
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Our defense has been our "Achilles heel" for many years now, and try as he might, GM Joe still hasn't come up with a working formula that prevents Kari from being peppered in each and every start.

Once he finds that missing piece, I'm hoping we see a resurrection of Goligoski's playing ability that was apparent in the games following the deal.
See the thing about this though is that a player won't make a difference. It still comes down to coaching. Letting 28+ shots a night is absolutely mind-meltingly bad.

I agree with you though. Hope to see Goose regain form as much as I hate having him here. We need to get some value out of him.

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02-02-2013, 03:54 PM
  #495
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I still feel like the problem is Robidas. Goligoski wasn't playing over his head during his stretch here after being traded, he was just on a hot streak. You don't lose talent like that so quickly without a major injury, and I have a hard time believing his hand injury was really that severe.

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02-02-2013, 03:58 PM
  #496
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I'm having a hard time determining what 'talent' everybody is saying he's lost. He was on a team with Crosby, Malkin, and Letang. How could he look bad?

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02-02-2013, 04:00 PM
  #497
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How bout the production he first put up when coming to Dallas?

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02-02-2013, 04:03 PM
  #498
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How bout the production he first put up when coming to Dallas?
Maybe the teams we were playing didn't know how to deal with him? Not sure. I do know he looks like a lost puppy in the big west now.

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02-02-2013, 04:12 PM
  #499
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I'm having a hard time determining what 'talent' everybody is saying he's lost. He was on a team with Crosby, Malkin, and Letang. How could he look bad?
You need to compare his play now with back then.

It's the little things that are troubling. Difficulty receiving passes cleanly. Bobbling the puck when stickhandling. Passes that are not so crisp. Shots are either wide or right into a defender's pads. He and the puck aren't friends these days.

That wasn't the case when he first joined the Stars.

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02-02-2013, 04:13 PM
  #500
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You need to compare his play now with back then.

It's the little things that are troubling. Difficulty receiving passes cleanly. Bobbling the puck when stickhandling. Passes that are not so crisp. Shots are either wide or right into a defender's pads. He and the puck aren't friends these days.

That wasn't the case when he first joined the Stars.
I guess I do. I'll check out some old footage then.

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