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Paul Stastny

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Old
02-02-2013, 10:12 AM
  #176
AslanRH
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
I guess my question would be, why does the Avs coaching staff feel that PS in unworthy of playing with the top O wingers on the team.

If he is still this PPG C, why is he not being put in a position to succeed and better the club?
One could argue that he was initially put with the #1 wingers offensively after how they played the end of last year together. I think you will see Stazz and Lando get some time when he returns, and both players should benefit. Jones is famous for starting slower than a dead snail, so for those of us who have suffered along with Stazz game in game out over the years, its easier for us to know what he truly brings to the table beyond just his stat line.

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02-02-2013, 10:16 AM
  #177
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
He has been, before injuries took over this team he was playing with McGinn and Jones. Both guys are top 6 wingers when healthy, and if Ginner wasn't snake bitten badly he would have had 5-7 goals by now all direct passes from Stastny and wide open nets.

Jones has apparently been playing injured for a little while, as he's now out with a leg injury.

McGinn has been playing very well with PAP and Duchene recently so if they keep that up Landy could be paired with Stastny when he comes back, and then we'll really find out if its just been a lack of finishing on Stas's line or if he really has lost it.
Well my concern is the #s put up over the past 2 seasons.

I'm seeing many posts laying the blame on his wingers.

My confusions is, why has it been this way for so long, if thats the core issue.

Don't get me wrong, i think PS would be a solid fit between Lups,Kessel.

I just don't understand why the AVc top O C is not playing with their top O wingers.

2 Blacker HEH we are the mighty blue and white, you do know we have cloning technology,right?

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02-02-2013, 10:20 AM
  #178
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
We could get 2 Blackers?

Sign me up.


Avs are not trading Stastny for futures or a package, it'll be for someone straight up(Like Bouwmeester or Phaneuf) or they add to Stastny to get a younger Top 2 Dman.

And I don't think its a coincidence that after the injured Jones was taken off Stastnys line against Calgary Thursday for the 3rd period, he went and score 2 goals including the game winner.
No offense intended but i have serious doubt that PS could garner that from a team with that cap hit and the 2 years of declining #s and UFA status after next season.

Seeing how the cap drop is going to affect so many teams next year and all.

Maybe on the leafs end a name like Gunnersson has to be in the mix.

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02-02-2013, 10:25 AM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Aslanrh View Post
One could argue that he was initially put with the #1 wingers offensively after how they played the end of last year together. I think you will see Stazz and Lando get some time when he returns, and both players should benefit. Jones is famous for starting slower than a dead snail, so for those of us who have suffered along with Stazz game in game out over the years, its easier for us to know what he truly brings to the table beyond just his stat line.
I have to admit ,i know little of RORs game but i can't help but feel that he is a little over rated and that line last year was more about Lando.

Kinda like a Bozak with Kessel analogy, so to speak.

Is ROR able to put up those kinda points with lesser linemates? Kinda like the same doubt put toward Bozak.

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02-02-2013, 10:32 AM
  #180
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
I have to admit ,i know little of RORs game but i can't help but feel that he is a little over rated and that line last year was more about Lando.

Kinda like a Bozak with Kessel analogy, so to speak.

Is ROR able to put up those kinda points with lesser linemates? Kinda like the same doubt put toward Bozak.
I think he could, but Colorado used him as a shut down defensive center for two years, which I think his final role will be similar to Kessler in Vancouve. A solid two way player who is not primarily the top offensive center on the team, but still very effective at both ends. I have very little doubt he is going to be a very good 2C from here on out.

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02-02-2013, 10:42 AM
  #181
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Originally Posted by Aslanrh View Post
I think he could, but Colorado used him as a shut down defensive center for two years, which I think his final role will be similar to Kessler in Vancouve. A solid two way player who is not primarily the top offensive center on the team, but still very effective at both ends. I have very little doubt he is going to be a very good 2C from here on out.
So along the lines of M Richards,Bergeron?

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02-02-2013, 12:05 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Aslanrh View Post
I think he could, but Colorado used him as a shut down defensive center for two years, which I think his final role will be similar to Kessler in Vancouve. A solid two way player who is not primarily the top offensive center on the team, but still very effective at both ends. I have very little doubt he is going to be a very good 2C from here on out.
Oh good were starting to make things up about Stastny again.

Avs fans excuses for Stastny include, the coach, his stick, line mates and now this... What's next itchy jock strap?

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02-02-2013, 12:07 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
Oh good were starting to make things up about Stastny again.

Avs fans excuses for Stastny include, the coach, his stick, line mates and now this... What's next itchy jock strap?
Good reading there buddy.



He was talking about O'Reilly. Why don't you look at who he replied to. He even bolded the part about ROR to make it easier.

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02-02-2013, 12:10 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by Avsare1 View Post
We could get 2 Blackers?

Sign me up.


Avs are not trading Stastny for futures or a package, it'll be for someone straight up(Like Bouwmeester or Phaneuf) or they add to Stastny to get a younger Top 2 Dman.

And I don't think its a coincidence that after the injured Jones was taken off Stastnys line against Calgary Thursday for the 3rd period, he went and score 2 goals including the game winner.
So, given that you cannot get Phaneuf. Nobody is going to trade you a younger top 2 defenceman for a package centered around Stastny (who at this point is not a top line player) with 1 1/2 years left at $6.6m. That potentially leaves Bouwmeester.

Are you prepared to trade Stastny for a 29-year old defenceman with the exact same contract? Or would you prefer something different?

What don't you like about Bouwmeester? (age?, calibre?, contract length?, position?, money owed?, style of play?), and what are you prepared to sacrifice on the return in order to improve whichever aspects you don't like?

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Old
02-02-2013, 12:18 PM
  #185
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He's a Kings fanboy.
Well then, that makes this even easier. We'll buy out Stastny if LAK buys out Mike Richards.

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Old
02-02-2013, 12:25 PM
  #186
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Originally Posted by Avs44 View Post
Good reading there buddy.



He was talking about O'Reilly. Why don't you look at who he replied to. He even bolded the part about ROR to make it easier.
I'm in a Stastny thread and posting on my phone. It's a little difficult but still my bad. Thx for letting me know.

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Old
02-02-2013, 12:33 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
So, given that you cannot get Phaneuf. Nobody is going to trade you a younger top 2 defenceman for a package centered around Stastny (who at this point is not a top line player) with 1 1/2 years left at $6.6m. That potentially leaves Bouwmeester.

Are you prepared to trade Stastny for a 29-year old defenceman with the exact same contract? Or would you prefer something different?

What don't you like about Bouwmeester? (age?, calibre?, contract length?, position?, money owed?, style of play?), and what are you prepared to sacrifice on the return in order to improve whichever aspects you don't like?
Just stop. You pull stuff out of your rear and present it as fact, and it's annoying. You cannot say definitively that Stastny is not a first-line player at this point.

Take last year for example. It was the worst year of his career, bar none. It was considerably worse than any year except for the previous one. Still, he was good for 25th in center scoring league wide. That was two off the team lead. A team that is playing a less than ideal style for Stastny and does not have a single defenseman that has anything resembling puck poise. I'm happy to keep him, and in fact disagree with my fellow Avalanche fans about him being on his way out. I think he's a core part of this team moving forward.

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02-02-2013, 10:48 PM
  #188
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Originally Posted by Faltorvo View Post
I guess my question would be, why does the Avs coaching staff feel that PS in unworthy of playing with the top O wingers on the team.

If he is still this PPG C, why is he not being put in a position to succeed and better the club?
It's because Duchene's had a lot of problems with his wingers getting hurt, so as the experienced vet, Staz would lose his wingers to Dutchy's line. Plus Sacco buttbuddied Landy and Radar really early in camp last year, and was trying him out with Dutchy to see if they'd click this year. So it's actually the Avs trusting him to make do with less help better than the kids.


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02-02-2013, 11:09 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Avec Fromage View Post
The argument that Stastny's point totals have decreased purely because of who he plays with is moronic. "Oh, if Stastny played with *insert star player* then he would have 70~ points!" Of course he'd have that many points with a PPG winger, but Stastny's job is to make his wingers better - not the other way around.

Every year, he scores less points and every year, Avs fans blame his wingers and claim he's a star centre or could easily regain that status. I don't see it. And at $6.6M and the ludicrous price tag that Avs fans demand, I have no interest.
I'll preface this by saying I'm not sure if Stastny will ever become that legit PPG top line center again, but the linemates argument is a big factor with him.

There's different types of playmaking centers. There's the very special kind like Gretzky or Forsberg that just see things on a different level and create things out of nothing. Other playmaking centers have a little if that.

Staz is a smart player but he's not flashy. He doesn't have a whole lot of tools in the toolbox, but if he plays with good players his vision and instincts will find them. He makes smart little plays, not big flashy plays that you didn't see coming.

Some players are so special they make sub par line mates better. It doesn't appear that Stastny is on that level, but its still a valuable asset to have if the player can play up to the level of his linemates if they are legit top line threats. The Avs have a lot of solid good wingers, but they haven't had a lot of top quality scoring wingers the last few years, and its probably watered down his contributions.

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02-17-2013, 07:53 AM
  #190
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Originally Posted by Ronaldo View Post
Oh good were starting to make things up about Stastny again.

Avs fans excuses for Stastny include, the coach, his stick, line mates and now this... What's next itchy jock strap?
Look what his hometown fans value was last year:

http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh...hlight=stastny

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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Kulemin + 1st 2012 is the starting offer Toronto should be making if they want Staz, and it won't stop there.
Now on a season pace for 26 points and -26 @ 6.6 Million cap, lol. Glad we kept Kulemin and our 5th overall first + whatever else they wanted!


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02-17-2013, 12:04 PM
  #191
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I'll preface this by saying I'm not sure if Stastny will ever become that legit PPG top line center again, but the linemates argument is a big factor with him.

There's different types of playmaking centers. There's the very special kind like Gretzky or Forsberg that just see things on a different level and create things out of nothing. Other playmaking centers have a little if that.

Staz is a smart player but he's not flashy. He doesn't have a whole lot of tools in the toolbox, but if he plays with good players his vision and instincts will find them. He makes smart little plays, not big flashy plays that you didn't see coming.

Some players are so special they make sub par line mates better. It doesn't appear that Stastny is on that level, but its still a valuable asset to have if the player can play up to the level of his linemates if they are legit top line threats. The Avs have a lot of solid good wingers, but they haven't had a lot of top quality scoring wingers the last few years, and its probably watered down his contributions.

Ya, thats right with how i see Stast.

Kinda why i see him being a solid fit between Lups/Kessel.

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02-17-2013, 12:36 PM
  #192
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Well then, that makes this even easier. We'll buy out Stastny if LAK buys out Mike Richards.
Why would they do that? He earns his money and was integral to a Stanley cup win last spring?


Remember last year when Avs fans said that Stastny has wingers now (Mcginn, PAP etc) and he'll return to his old ways? Thenwhen he doesn't produce it's on the next excuse?

Why can't Stastny produce with these wingers but O'Reilly didn't have a problem?

When is it time to acknowledge that Stastny peaked early and will never again be worth his 6.6m price tag?


There's a lot of teams that could certainly use Stastny, but I can't imagine anyone paying a premium for a 2nd line centre paid as a number 1.


What about Anaheim? They could certainly use a decent number 2 centre?

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02-17-2013, 12:47 PM
  #193
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Why would they do that? He earns his money and was integral to a Stanley cup win last spring?


Remember last year when Avs fans said that Stastny has wingers now (Mcginn, PAP etc) and he'll return to his old ways? Thenwhen he doesn't produce it's on the next excuse?

Why can't Stastny produce with these wingers but O'Reilly didn't have a problem?

When is it time to acknowledge that Stastny peaked early and will never again be worth his 6.6m price tag?


There's a lot of teams that could certainly use Stastny, but I can't imagine anyone paying a premium for a 2nd line centre paid as a number 1.


What about Anaheim? They could certainly use a decent number 2 centre?

You might want to watch an Avs game or two. We lost Downie and Landeskog to injury and Jones looks beyond horrible. I know that you love to talk about the value of our players. So watching them could definitely help.

You know with whom Stastny is playing right now? Jones who is the worst FA signing we made in the last 10 years probably and Aaron Palushaj. That is right. Aaron Palushaj. The guy who got waived by Montreal not so long ago. And Aaron looks way better than Jones right now....

No one is saying that he is worth 6.6M right now. There are reasons why he is not performing all that well ( although he has not been bad the last 8-10 games but certainly not 6.6M good).

Coaching, system that completely sucks for him, linemates are just the obvious ones.
Avs certainly won't salary dump him. He is way too good for that.
They will discuss extension with him in the offseason and if they can't find common grounds, he will hopefully be traded for decent value.

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02-17-2013, 12:47 PM
  #194
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Why would they do that? He earns his money and was integral to a Stanley cup win last spring?


Remember last year when Avs fans said that Stastny has wingers now (Mcginn, PAP etc) and he'll return to his old ways? Thenwhen he doesn't produce it's on the next excuse?

Why can't Stastny produce with these wingers but O'Reilly didn't have a problem?

When is it time to acknowledge that Stastny peaked early and will never again be worth his 6.6m price tag?


There's a lot of teams that could certainly use Stastny, but I can't imagine anyone paying a premium for a 2nd line centre paid as a number 1.


What about Anaheim? They could certainly use a decent number 2 centre?
Both play with Duchene, Downie and Landeskog are both on the IR (and have been for a while), Hejduk isn't close to where he used to be anymore and Jones looks completely lost out there this year and throw in a few other guys like he's used to playing with in past years. He still doesn't really have wingers this year, and I'd say that the biggest problem isn't so much the lack of wingers but the removal of an offensive system. Stastny can't create plays in the same way that Duchene can, he uses the cycle but Colorado doesn't use a cycle anymore... they don't really use much of anything to be honest.

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02-17-2013, 01:01 PM
  #195
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Originally Posted by Crisp Breakout View Post
Just stop. You pull stuff out of your rear and present it as fact, and it's annoying. You cannot say definitively that Stastny is not a first-line player at this point.

Take last year for example. It was the worst year of his career, bar none. It was considerably worse than any year except for the previous one. Still, he was good for 25th in center scoring league wide. That was two off the team lead. A team that is playing a less than ideal style for Stastny and does not have a single defenseman that has anything resembling puck poise. I'm happy to keep him, and in fact disagree with my fellow Avalanche fans about him being on his way out. I think he's a core part of this team moving forward.
All he needs to do is point to Paul's 7 points in 13 games as proof that he's not a top line forward any more. He could also point towards his lack of production since 2009/10 as well.

He's a second / third line tweener being paid $6.6m/year.

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02-17-2013, 02:18 PM
  #196
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Originally Posted by JoemAvs View Post
You might want to watch an Avs game or two. We lost Downie and Landeskog to injury and Jones looks beyond horrible. I know that you love to talk about the value of our players. So watching them could definitely help.

You know with whom Stastny is playing right now? Jones who is the worst FA signing we made in the last 10 years probably and Aaron Palushaj. That is right. Aaron Palushaj. The guy who got waived by Montreal not so long ago. And Aaron looks way better than Jones right now....

No one is saying that he is worth 6.6M right now. There are reasons why he is not performing all that well ( although he has not been bad the last 8-10 games but certainly not 6.6M good).

Coaching, system that completely sucks for him, linemates are just the obvious ones.
Avs certainly won't salary dump him. He is way too good for that.
They will discuss extension with him in the offseason and if they can't find common grounds, he will hopefully be traded for decent value.
I watch the Avs quite a bit actually, and every time I do Stastny is invisible. I actually took a keen interest in them a few years ago, mainly because I played against Chris Stewart and I love watching Duchene play.

There's lots of players who don't necessarily have ideal line mates, but they still produce. I'm just wondering when the blame for lack of production will be placed on Stastny himself, instead of his line mates. Playmakers are supposed to make plays and create opportunities for their line mates, Stastny doesn't do that anymore then your average 2nd line centre. He is pretty average compared to most second line centres in almost every regard as well as being a touch over 50% in face offs over the past few years and a pretty big minus player as well.


I know Jones is garbage, I've had several debates with Avs fans that he's a boarder line NHL'er with good wheels and a well above average release and shot; his only endearing qualities. Beyond that he doesn't bring anything to the table that the average 3rd liner couldn't bring.


This is the same David Jones who some Avs fans were claiming was worth a 1st round pick in the thread about Ray Shero at the Minnesota-Colorado game.

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02-17-2013, 02:23 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
I watch the Avs quite a bit actually, and every time I do Stastny is invisible. I actually took a keen interest in them a few years ago, mainly because I played against Chris Stewart and I love watching Duchene play.

There's lots of players who don't necessarily have ideal line mates, but they still produce. I'm just wondering when the blame for lack of production will be placed on Stastny himself, instead of his line mates. Playmakers are supposed to make plays and create opportunities for their line mates, Stastny doesn't do that anymore then your average 2nd line centre. He is pretty average compared to most second line centres in almost every regard as well as being a touch over 50% in face offs over the past few years and a pretty big minus player as well.


I know Jones is garbage, I've had several debates with Avs fans that he's a boarder line NHL'er with good wheels and a well above average release and shot; his only endearing qualities. Beyond that he doesn't bring anything to the table that the average 3rd liner couldn't bring.


This is the same David Jones who some Avs fans were claiming was worth a 1st round pick in the thread about Ray Shero at the Minnesota-Colorado game.
Well I disagree. I still think he is one of the best playmakers in this league. Yes he tends to be invisible because the Avs just play the complete wrong game for Stastny. Avs never have possesion in the opposing zone. And the only thing we do is dump and chase when it comes to a system. And we suck really really hard at it.

We usually only score on the rush due to individual efforts by mostly Duchene's line.

No one really expects a 1st for Jones. Last years Jones? Yes.
This years Jones is nowhere near 1st rnd pick value.

He still would look pretty good next to Crosby. Imagine a guy with good wheels and a great shot next to Crosby under Bylsma. That would probably be worth a 1st , right? . Problem is his contract.

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02-17-2013, 02:36 PM
  #198
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Well I disagree. I still think he is one of the best playmakers in this league. Yes he tends to be invisible because the Avs just play the complete wrong game for Stastny. Avs never have possesion in the opposing zone. And the only thing we do is dump and chase when it comes to a system. And we suck really really hard at it.

We usually only score on the rush due to individual efforts by mostly Duchene's line.

No one really expects a 1st for Jones. Last years Jones? Yes.
This years Jones is nowhere near 1st rnd pick value.

He still would look pretty good next to Crosby. Imagine a guy with good wheels and a great shot next to Crosby under Bylsma. That would probably be worth a 1st , right? . Problem is his contract.
Good players adapt to a system. Duchene isn't really a dump and chase player either, but he's still effective.

Not really, the Penguins have a David Jones in Tyler Kennedy, and he doesn't make 4 million for another 3 years after this season.. The Penguins are a cap ceiling team and aren't going to take on bad contracts, much less at the expense of a first round pick.

No matter how you twist it, Stastny isn't the player he used to be. He's along the lines of Lecavalier; a decent second line centre whose overpaid and no longer produces like the first liner he used to be.

Still a useful player, but isn't netting much of a return via trade due to declining production and mammoth contract. Avs are better to just keep him with the loss of O'Reilly, otherwise Johnny Malkin is your number 2 centre. That's a recipe for disaster, just ask Leaf fans.


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02-17-2013, 02:39 PM
  #199
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If you watched the Avs then surely you would have noticed the numerous missed shots, shots off the crossbars and fubarred chances Stastny generates. But, oh well. Someone has to be lambasted, why not Staz. The guy that will leave Colorado and magically have his career reborn elsewhere because of another team's coach giving him good linemates in a good system. Then we can hear how that team made Stastny back into a number one center and got a steal in him.

It's a shame he goes so unnoticed for doing the little things right. Backchecking and winning the battles in the corner, generating cycles behind the opposing net only to have Jones or our peewee defense fudge them up. Passing to a guy that can't remember how to shoot the puck or who decides his best course of action is to hit the post.

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02-17-2013, 02:40 PM
  #200
cgf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparxx87 View Post
Why would they do that? He earns his money and was integral to a Stanley cup win last spring?


Remember last year when Avs fans said that Stastny has wingers now (Mcginn, PAP etc) and he'll return to his old ways? Thenwhen he doesn't produce it's on the next excuse?

Why can't Stastny produce with these wingers but O'Reilly didn't have a problem?

When is it time to acknowledge that Stastny peaked early and will never again be worth his 6.6m price tag?


There's a lot of teams that could certainly use Stastny, but I can't imagine anyone paying a premium for a 2nd line centre paid as a number 1.


What about Anaheim? They could certainly use a decent number 2 centre?
...O'Reilly produced two more points than staz last year, getting to spend all year with Rookie Landeskog...

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