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Old
02-01-2013, 07:13 PM
  #426
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Stepan stood out in college because he had superior vision and was great at anticipating the play. Those skills haven't translated as well at the NHL level. The game is too fast for him.

Not the first time it's been mentioned and probably won't be the last, but he really needs to improve his skating. I don't think it's improved at all since he entered in the league. I know he uses a skating coach, but the Rangers should try to get him to take lessons with Barb Underhill, it can't hurt to try.
Can't disagree with any of this post.

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02-01-2013, 07:14 PM
  #427
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Hmmm. So you admit that you're basing it solely on a 7 game sample, then proceed to list a winger and the Ducks 2nd line center, both of whom no rational mind would rate above Stepan.

I'd ask you to go through to other teams, but I don't think I can bear it.
... hmmmm so you are that kind of a guy.

First off, Winnik is listed as Center, so I'll treat him that way.

Second, Cogs is not the 2nd line center. I believe that is Sakku Koivu. Ok, a little old but still PPG player ...

So anyway you see it, Anaheims #3 center would own Stepan in this shape.

I have stated this over and over in another thread, or maybe even this one: Stepan is lacking the mindset, and maybe wont get it for this season. I also stated that in 10 games time, he might! get going.

Anyhow, since you are that kind of a guy, nothing will let you see my point, good day.

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02-01-2013, 07:25 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN88 View Post
... hmmmm so you are that kind of a guy.

First off, Winnik is listed as Center, so I'll treat him that way.

Second, Cogs is not the 2nd line center. I believe that is Sakku Koivu. Ok, a little old but still PPG player ...

So anyway you see it, Anaheims #3 center would own Stepan in this shape.

I have stated this over and over in another thread, or maybe even this one: Stepan is lacking the mindset, and maybe wont get it for this season. I also stated that in 10 games time, he might! get going.

Anyhow, since you are that kind of a guy, nothing will let you see my point, good day.
I have never seen Winnik play center. Petr Prucha was listed as a center on NHL.com, which is a laughable thought.

Andrew Cogilano does have slightly more ES TOI this season, so in my mind he's the #2 center. Saku Koivu was never a point per game player in any season. He was barely over half a point a game last season, and he hasn't outscored Stepan since Stepan entered the league.

It's not that I don't see your point. I see it, and have made the personal decision that it is a terrible point.

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02-01-2013, 07:28 PM
  #429
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
Totally, I doubt you could find 6 teams that would take Stepan as a #4 center.
I thought we were talking about a #2C? How did #4C get into the conversation? I never stated that Stepan whould be a 4C, I just think there are more than 4-5 teams who have better 2C's than him!

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02-01-2013, 07:37 PM
  #430
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Originally Posted by OverTheCap View Post
Stepan stood out in college because he had superior vision and was great at anticipating the play. Those skills haven't translated as well at the NHL level. The game is too fast for him.

Not the first time it's been mentioned and probably won't be the last, but he really needs to improve his skating. I don't think it's improved at all since he entered in the league. I know he uses a skating coach, but the Rangers should try to get him to take lessons with Barb Underhill, it can't hurt to try.
They've translated so badly that he increased his production after a breakout rookie season and has become one of our top PKers. If that means the game is too fast for him, maybe we should throw all of our prospects into the deep end of the pool.

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02-01-2013, 08:05 PM
  #431
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Originally Posted by Trxjw View Post
They've translated so badly that he increased his production after a breakout rookie season and has become one of our top PKers. If that means the game is too fast for him, maybe we should throw all of our prospects into the deep end of the pool.
You honestly think Stepan's playmaking looks as good as did it in college? We'll have to agree to disagree here. I think his decision-making was better in college.

Not really sure what his PKing has to do with his vision and passing, which were the specific skills I was referring to in my post. Stepan's getting better at the PK but Cally and Boyle are still the top PKers on this team.

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02-01-2013, 08:27 PM
  #432
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Stepan's skating issues on the ice arent solely a product of a lack of ability. When he gets going he's really not a slow skater. The main issue is that he doesn't move his feet enough out on the ice. You see players like Callahan & Hagelin motoring around on the ice and constantly moving their feet. It's a conscious decision to play that way - you have to have that mindset when you play. Kreider has speed like Hagelin but you do not see Kreider having the same impact on the ice the way that Hagelin does when you see him motoring around. It's not just an issue of speed.

Far too often it feels like Stepan is observing the play or playing positional hockey rather than using his legs to engage in the play and have an impact on what happens with the puck.

He needs to become more hungry and more tenacious out on the ice and willfully more engaged in factoring into the play. He needs more passion in his game because more often than not he looks like an observer rather than a participant in what's transpiring on the ice.

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02-01-2013, 09:13 PM
  #433
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Stepan's skating issues on the ice arent solely a product of a lack of ability. When he gets going he's really not a slow skater. The main issue is that he doesn't move his feet enough out on the ice. You see players like Callahan & Hagelin motoring around on the ice and constantly moving their feet. It's a conscious decision to play that way - you have to have that mindset when you play. Kreider has speed like Hagelin but you do not see Kreider having the same impact on the ice the way that Hagelin does when you see him motoring around. It's not just an issue of speed.

Far too often it feels like Stepan is observing the play or playing positional hockey rather than using his legs to engage in the play and have an impact on what happens with the puck.

He needs to become more hungry and more tenacious out on the ice and willfully more engaged in factoring into the play. He needs more passion in his game because more often than not he looks like an observer rather than a participant in what's transpiring on the ice.
That one play on the PP that I found shocking in the 3rd or 2nd period where he was inside the offensive blueline manning the point on the power play and the puck flutters by him and he looked back, didn't move, looked forward, looked the side, then started gingerly skating toward center ice while someone else was skating full stride to retrieve the puck.

I don't know how to describe it but it was just unnatural. I don't really focus on what players do in that spot where the puck goes by them but it was really awkward to see him standing there. Awkward enough to know that he's not doing something very very basic like moving his feet.

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Old
02-01-2013, 09:20 PM
  #434
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Also, with a mental case like Step, I think he's trying to do too much and missing on all the basic stuff. He's skillful, fast and strong enough to compete at the NHL level. He definitely has enough hockey sense and play making skills to make an impact. All of that is lost in translation.

The entire team needs more movement in the offensive zone. The two plays on the PP where Nash moved to the inside resulted in a rare PPG as well as a rare quality SOG. Step has the strength and the hands to emulate Nash and he doesn't have a bad wrist shot either. The lack of movement in the offensive zone by the entire team is really ****ing with all the forward's ability to find opportunities. Quality chances just aren't there. When the opposing team is inferior and playing a bad game, we don't have to always fall back to defend and we are playing better and getting to pucks more and winning board battles. The dump and chase works when we're outplaying the opposition as with Toronto. When we're slow and underwhelming though, it's game suicide.

When you have enough skillful players on the team and a solid core of grinders that can dump and chase and battle along the boards AND you have a solid defense and an elite goaltender, you should stop dumping and chasing as the go to strategy. What's wrong with puck possession and zone entry where players can have time and space. Torts needs to rework his thought process or else this team will continue to suffer.

That is partially the reason why coaches are fired. They stick to a system that once worked but fails to be effective for the current team. Feds and Prust were quick to the puck, battles hard for the puck and they are quick to get the puck to a spot where the scorers can carry on. Mitchell is good at entering the zone and just holding on to the puck and the defense backs off more often because he's Johnny Malkin. With the current team including how badly Rupp is playing, we're going to win a lot less of those battles and lose a lot of that form of offense generating this year.

There's a difference between grind and gain possession/take aways and grinding grinding and grinding some more.

Torts needs to trust his forwards a bit more. The rigidity of the Torts system is boxing a lot of offensive talent in. Mike Sullivan doesn't know how to generate offense with a fully automatic machine gun.


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Old
02-01-2013, 09:38 PM
  #435
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Corey Pronman of Hockey Prospectus ranked Stepan #34 on his list of Top 50 NHLers 23 and under in October http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1398 :

Quote:
34. Derek Stepan, Center, New York Rangers

I've always liked Stepan's playmaking abilities and he has produced at a fairly impressive level for his age over the last few seasons. He has been a little sheltered in terms of receiving a high amount of offensive zone starts. I wouldn't classify his ceiling as world-class level or anything like that, but he could be an average starting line center in terms of production and difficulty of minutes logged in his prime.
If Stepan does not improve from here on out (which I think is unlikely), he's already a legitimate #2 Center. He's not flashy, but he produces. Right now he has 0 goals on 19 shots. At some point, the goals will come as evidenced by his 10.1 career S%.

Last season, he had just 1 assist in the first 7 games and rebounded nicely after a poor start. I have confidence in the same happening again.

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Old
02-01-2013, 09:41 PM
  #436
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Originally Posted by NYR21 View Post
Corey Pronman of Hockey Prospectus ranked Stepan #34 on his list of Top 50 NHLers 23 and under in October http://www.hockeyprospectus.com/arti...articleid=1398 :



If Stepan does not improve from here on out (which I think is unlikely), he's already a legitimate #2 Center. He's not flashy, but he produces. Right now he has 0 goals on 19 shots. At some point, the goals will come as evidenced by his 10.1 career S%.

Last season, he had just 1 assist in the first 7 games and rebounded nicely after a poor start. I have confidence in the same happening again.
I'm okay with him being a #2 center. That's fine. He solidifies the second line. We don't need him to play on the first line

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02-01-2013, 11:25 PM
  #437
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I'm not sold on the Gaborik-Richards-Nash line yet. They had a great game against Boston and were good last night. But a guy like Stepan needs a scorer to play with him.
absolutely agree. we are a one trick pony out there.

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02-02-2013, 02:49 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
Stepan's skating issues on the ice arent solely a product of a lack of ability. When he gets going he's really not a slow skater. The main issue is that he doesn't move his feet enough out on the ice. You see players like Callahan & Hagelin motoring around on the ice and constantly moving their feet. It's a conscious decision to play that way - you have to have that mindset when you play. Kreider has speed like Hagelin but you do not see Kreider having the same impact on the ice the way that Hagelin does when you see him motoring around. It's not just an issue of speed.

Far too often it feels like Stepan is observing the play or playing positional hockey rather than using his legs to engage in the play and have an impact on what happens with the puck.

He needs to become more hungry and more tenacious out on the ice and willfully more engaged in factoring into the play. He needs more passion in his game because more often than not he looks like an observer rather than a participant in what's transpiring on the ice.
Great post. Spoken like someone who actually plays/played hockey and actually understands the game.

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Old
02-02-2013, 05:27 AM
  #439
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I don't know how one can say Stepan's game hasn't translated to the NHL.. 45 points and 51 points. Nothing to scoff at. He isn't bad in his own zone either.

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Old
02-02-2013, 12:08 PM
  #440
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A lot of good points being made over the last few posts. Stepan's statistical production is not complaint-worthy, but he's yet to become the player that I was hoping to see based on his play in college. He was a dominant player at Wisconsin. He controlled the play, and he's not doing that yet here. IMO, it is a combination of skating and mental tenacity. For any basketball fans, I'd like to draw the comparison to Brook Lopez: a talented and skilled offensive player who simply doesn't assert himself enough to be as good as he should be.

I flat out adored Stepan in college, he was one of the smartest players in the country. He played that way in international competitions as a junior-aged player, as well. I'm still not seeing that in his NHL performance. That doesn't mean, however, that enough time has passed to give up on the kid. He's too good. The potential is too high. I would consider trading him only in a deal that brought a similarly-aged center with playmaking skills that would qualify as a clear upgrade.

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02-02-2013, 02:13 PM
  #441
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Originally Posted by NYR Sting View Post
A lot of good points being made over the last few posts. Stepan's statistical production is not complaint-worthy, but he's yet to become the player that I was hoping to see based on his play in college. He was a dominant player at Wisconsin. He controlled the play, and he's not doing that yet here. IMO, it is a combination of skating and mental tenacity. For any basketball fans, I'd like to draw the comparison to Brook Lopez: a talented and skilled offensive player who simply doesn't assert himself enough to be as good as he should be.

I flat out adored Stepan in college, he was one of the smartest players in the country. He played that way in international competitions as a junior-aged player, as well. I'm still not seeing that in his NHL performance. That doesn't mean, however, that enough time has passed to give up on the kid. He's too good. The potential is too high. I would consider trading him only in a deal that brought a similarly-aged center with playmaking skills that would qualify as a clear upgrade.
Couldn't have said it better myself. Stepan was one of the most noticeable players on the ice in college as well as the WJCs. As you and some others in this thread have alluded to, he needs to assert himself more. He looks a little more hesitant than he did in college, he played with more confidence back then.

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02-02-2013, 02:50 PM
  #442
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Couldn't have said it better myself. Stepan was one of the most noticeable players on the ice in college as well as the WJCs. As you and some others in this thread have alluded to, he needs to assert himself more. He looks a little more hesitant than he did in college, he played with more confidence back then.
Guys. College and the WJC is a LOT lower level than the NHL. Even Crosby lost stats going from the juniors to the NHL. Of course Stepan looked better on the lower levels of play.. what the hell is this discussion about?

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02-02-2013, 04:01 PM
  #443
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Guys. College and the WJC is a LOT lower level than the NHL. Even Crosby lost stats going from the juniors to the NHL. Of course Stepan looked better on the lower levels of play.. what the hell is this discussion about?
They're not talking about stats though. In college, Stepan displayed the kind of playmaking ability that truly wowed you. For whatever reason, that passing game has just disappeared. It's very troubling.

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02-02-2013, 04:30 PM
  #444
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Lets put it this way, Im willing to hope that Stepan improves his speed to the point where his clearly-there playmaking ability can be bought a bit more time -- rather than acquire anyone that is realistic.

Cogliano is being mentioned in this thread??? Jussi Jokinen??

WTF?

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02-02-2013, 04:57 PM
  #445
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It appears that we have an early favorite for the pessimistic fan irrational hate award for 2013. A fine tradition. Odd, I don't hear you guys *****ing about Del Zotto anymore and how he needs to be traded before "people realize that his rookie year was a fluke."

For the umpteenth time--Derek Stepan is 22 years old. Do you know what Callahan's numbers were in his 22 year old season? 13 points and a trip back to the AHL. It's WAY too early to talk about anything "not translating" to the NHL.

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02-02-2013, 05:01 PM
  #446
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
Lets put it this way, Im willing to hope that Stepan improves his speed to the point where his clearly-there playmaking ability can be bought a bit more time -- rather than acquire anyone that is realistic.

Cogliano is being mentioned in this thread??? Jussi Jokinen??

WTF?
Clearly you've never played hockey.

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Old
02-02-2013, 05:27 PM
  #447
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It appears that we have an early favorite for the pessimistic fan irrational hate award for 2013. A fine tradition. Odd, I don't hear you guys *****ing about Del Zotto anymore and how he needs to be traded before "people realize that his rookie year was a fluke."

For the umpteenth time--Derek Stepan is 22 years old. Do you know what Callahan's numbers were in his 22 year old season? 13 points and a trip back to the AHL. It's WAY too early to talk about anything "not translating" to the NHL.
Agreed

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02-02-2013, 06:01 PM
  #448
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Stepan's skating issues on the ice arent solely a product of a lack of ability. When he gets going he's really not a slow skater. The main issue is that he doesn't move his feet enough out on the ice. You see players like Callahan & Hagelin motoring around on the ice and constantly moving their feet. It's a conscious decision to play that way - you have to have that mindset when you play. Kreider has speed like Hagelin but you do not see Kreider having the same impact on the ice the way that Hagelin does when you see him motoring around. It's not just an issue of speed.

Far too often it feels like Stepan is observing the play or playing positional hockey rather than using his legs to engage in the play and have an impact on what happens with the puck.

He needs to become more hungry and more tenacious out on the ice and willfully more engaged in factoring into the play. He needs more passion in his game because more often than not he looks like an observer rather than a participant in what's transpiring on the ice.
Yep. And it is not something new, Stepan had the same issue at times in college. And even at that lower level, his game noticeably suffered.

These were my thoughts from a week ago. He hasn't done anything yet to make me change my mind:

Quote:
Regardless he is playing the game right now the same way he played not just the playoffs but also too much of last season before he got hurt: without moving his legs much, without any edge to his game and (scariest) without much creativity with the puck.

He had the same problem at times in Wisconsin. Stretches of a game or whole games where he was content to let other dictate the flow. And his game always suffered.

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02-02-2013, 06:09 PM
  #449
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Originally Posted by smoneil View Post
It appears that we have an early favorite for the pessimistic fan irrational hate award for 2013. A fine tradition. Odd, I don't hear you guys *****ing about Del Zotto anymore and how he needs to be traded before "people realize that his rookie year was a fluke."

For the umpteenth time--Derek Stepan is 22 years old. Do you know what Callahan's numbers were in his 22 year old season? 13 points and a trip back to the AHL. It's WAY too early to talk about anything "not translating" to the NHL.
Ding, ding, ding.

This is the truth. People need a player to come on here and whine about. Stepan is the whipping boy for now, just like so many other players have been in the past. Let's start an "irrational pessimism" thread and just throw all this garbage in there.

Great point about Cally too. 22 is too early to be making these sort of judgements on any player.

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02-02-2013, 07:42 PM
  #450
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Would like to see Stepan center Gaborik and Nash a bit. See what he can do there. Hes skating way better than Richards is.

Gaborik and Nash seem to be up around the net and Richards is still skating into the zone...

On the 2nd line with Pyatt and Hags, he is really being asked to be the catalyst. Swap him and richards for a bit, let richards take that role. Let stepan be the 3rd guy with Nash and Gabs taking the pressure


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