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Bob McKenzie's mid-season rankings

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Old
02-02-2013, 08:43 AM
  #101
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Originally Posted by S E P H View Post
How is it ridiculous when he's right?
He's far off actually, they're neck and neck

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02-02-2013, 09:51 AM
  #102
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another list that has the USHL and US Highschools painfully too low. that is usually the case with the USHL AND US Highschools as they usually gain steam around the u18 tourney and in the final rankings. the U18 will help vault a number of USNDP players as well as I imagine Hurley and Fitzgerald getting ranked in the first round or just outside.

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02-02-2013, 10:30 AM
  #103
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Fucale is unreal. Should be a first rounder IMO
"Unreal" is a bit strong lol. He isn`t one of those "Fleury-like" goalies that tend to go very early in the draft because they are big or flashy goalies.

He will get beat on good shots, he isn`t huge in net... but its his poise and consistency that should be very appealing to most teams. Night after night he plays virtually the same game. He is certainly capable of shutting the door as he has the last 2 nights for example. But IMO his biggest strength is that he will be virtually the same above average goaltender in nets every night, and he is a workhorse as far as being able to play lots as his style is calm.

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02-02-2013, 11:17 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
another list that has the USHL and US Highschools painfully too low. that is usually the case with the USHL AND US Highschools as they usually gain steam around the u18 tourney and in the final rankings. the U18 will help vault a number of USNDP players as well as I imagine Hurley and Fitzgerald getting ranked in the first round or just outside.
There was five USHS players in the first three rounds last season (None in the first round) and only 4 non-USNTDP USHL players in the first three rounds. There's a reason there isn't many, because these leagues don't produce much quality NHL talent. The USNTDP is represented well enough for how weak it's crop is this year.


Last edited by DaveG: 02-02-2013 at 11:58 AM. Reason: unnecessary
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02-02-2013, 11:42 AM
  #105
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Originally Posted by NS Bluenoser View Post
"Unreal" is a bit strong lol. He isn`t one of those "Fleury-like" goalies that tend to go very early in the draft because they are big or flashy goalies.

He will get beat on good shots, he isn`t huge in net... but its his poise and consistency that should be very appealing to most teams. Night after night he plays virtually the same game. He is certainly capable of shutting the door as he has the last 2 nights for example. But IMO his biggest strength is that he will be virtually the same above average goaltender in nets every night, and he is a workhorse as far as being able to play lots as his style is calm.
Biggest asset is mental game which I suppose you were touching on. Last year he played like 65 straight games.

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02-02-2013, 12:09 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by AmericanDream View Post
another list that has the USHL and US Highschools painfully too low. that is usually the case with the USHL AND US Highschools as they usually gain steam around the u18 tourney and in the final rankings. the U18 will help vault a number of USNDP players as well as I imagine Hurley and Fitzgerald getting ranked in the first round or just outside.
This simply is not a good draft year for the US
Last year there were 6 First rounders(6 from the USHL,0 from Higschool). This year there will be maximum 2-3 and no one is Top 15 worthy

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02-02-2013, 01:36 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by stayinalive View Post
This simply is not a good draft year for the US
Last year there were 6 First rounders(6 from the USHL,0 from Higschool). This year there will be maximum 2-3 and no one is Top 15 worthy
Isn't jones and Erne americans playing in Canada? That counts as far as I'm concerned

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02-02-2013, 01:43 PM
  #108
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How much of Jones being ranked over Mackinnon is due to the World Juniors? (ie Jones played a big part while Mackinnon was relegated to a bottom 6 role)

All things being close equal I think the Center gets picked first by most teams(of coarse there is a few teams that might benefit more with a defenseman)

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02-02-2013, 01:50 PM
  #109
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Isn't jones and Erne americans playing in Canada? That counts as far as I'm concerned
well i meant players playing in the US

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02-02-2013, 01:51 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
How much of Jones being ranked over Mackinnon is due to the World Juniors? (ie Jones played a big part while Mackinnon was relegated to a bottom 6 role)

All things being close equal I think the Center gets picked first by most teams(of coarse there is a few teams that might benefit more with a defenseman)
I dont think it is easy as center vs dman.

Jones is a beast. Not your averaged dman. Guy is a physical freak and has very good offensive skills. This kid looks like Chris Pronger 2.0 without all the character flaws.

Nathan Mackinnon did next to nothing with the time he DID get in the WJC. He also was less than impressive in the prospects game. Jones was very good in both.

One player is trending up, while the other is going the other direction from where I sit.

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02-02-2013, 01:54 PM
  #111
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I dont think it is easy as center vs dman.

Jones is a beast. Not your averaged dman. Guy is a physical freak and has very good offensive skills. This kid looks like Chris Pronger 2.0 without all the character flaws.

Nathan Mackinnon did next to nothing with the time he DID get in the WJC. He also was less than impressive in the prospects game. Jones was very good in both.

One player is trending up, while the other is going the other direction from where I sit.
Chances are you are going to get much faster returns on a Center then a defenseman. Also it's much harder finding top offensive forwards then top defensemen later in the draft(basically 10 years from now Jones might end up being a better player but up until that point you probably are going to get much more out of the Mackinnon pick). When all things are close to equal I am going with a center

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02-02-2013, 02:08 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
Chances are you are going to get much faster returns on a Center then a defenseman. Also it's much harder finding top offensive forwards then top defensemen later in the draft(basically 10 years from now Jones might end up being a better player but up until that point you probably are going to get much more out of the Mackinnon pick). When all things are close to equal I am going with a center
I disagree. Jones is much more NHL ready than Mackinnon right now. I think he is the better player right now and always will be.

Mackinnon is almost a year younger though, so that should work in his favour, but I think the gap is just too large to make up.

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02-02-2013, 03:00 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
I dont think it is easy as center vs dman.

Jones is a beast. Not your averaged dman. Guy is a physical freak and has very good offensive skills. This kid looks like Chris Pronger 2.0 without all the character flaws.

Nathan Mackinnon did next to nothing with the time he DID get in the WJC. He also was less than impressive in the prospects game. Jones was very good in both.

One player is trending up, while the other is going the other direction from where I sit.
well if you're going by just those games then you're taking Valeri Nichushkin #1 right? he beat Seth Jones pretty bad pretty often in the WJC

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02-02-2013, 06:22 PM
  #114
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No. Its my opinion. Ive seen both players play numerous times over a decent period of time, so it is not "ignorant". It may not be an opinion you agree with, but I guess that would be your problem, not mine.
Yup, I've seen both players a ton as well and Jones is the better player. I am not a fan of Mackinnon's game; reminds me a lot of Phil Kessel (this doesn't mean he's a bad player, just personal preference).

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02-02-2013, 06:32 PM
  #115
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Yup, I've seen both players a ton as well and Jones is the better player. I am not a fan of Mackinnon's game; reminds me a lot of Phil Kessel (this doesn't mean he's a bad player, just personal preference).
Wow a Phil Kessel comp, Nathan should hang that up on his locker.

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02-02-2013, 06:36 PM
  #116
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Wow a Phil Kessel comp, Nathan should hang that up on his locker.
I wouldn't.

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02-02-2013, 07:29 PM
  #117
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well if you're going by just those games then you're taking Valeri Nichushkin #1 right? he beat Seth Jones pretty bad pretty often in the WJC
Those games are the only times they have competed head to head. Both times Jones came out pretty far ahead. I think that has value. Its no coincidence that after that, lists are coming out having Jones ahead instead of Mackinnon.

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02-02-2013, 09:06 PM
  #118
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Those games are the only times they have competed head to head. Both times Jones came out pretty far ahead. I think that has value. Its no coincidence that after that, lists are coming out having Jones ahead instead of Mackinnon.
I don't think that many scouts or teams place much value in 3 games.

Sure Jones looked better than Nathan in those 3 games but Nathan had looked better would it really change your opinion?

BTW I have Jones as 1a and Nathan as 1b, both guys are going to be big impact players.

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02-02-2013, 10:08 PM
  #119
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I don't think that many scouts or teams place much value in 3 games.

Sure Jones looked better than Nathan in those 3 games but Nathan had looked better would it really change your opinion?

BTW I have Jones as 1a and Nathan as 1b, both guys are going to be big impact players.
Not talking about just three games Im talking about the entire tourney and the prospects game. Jones shone and was a star. Mackinnon literally did nothing.

That IS significant.

It will be interesting if both teams make the Memorial Cup.

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02-02-2013, 10:10 PM
  #120
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I can't figure out why Zykov is ranked so low, if he's talked about so highly, unless skating, defense and the Russian factor are issues, sounds like one of the rare Russians that has the right attitude, very determined player, unlike most who just try and coast on their talent.
No "Russian factor" in Zykov ... He left his Russian club at 17 to join Baie-Comeau off all places .. Tells me he's pretty committed to NA. Shouldn't (and I don't think it will) affect his draft stock ... Great skater and offensive player, but it's a very deep draft, especially for the Q, so players like him will be rated lower than what their skill level would normally get them ... There's gonna be some better than normal picks in the 20's-30's.

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02-03-2013, 12:52 AM
  #121
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Not talking about just three games Im talking about the entire tourney and the prospects game. Jones shone and was a star. Mackinnon literally did nothing.

That IS significant.

It will be interesting if both teams make the Memorial Cup.
I hope this happens!! That would be one epic game!

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02-03-2013, 02:10 PM
  #122
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Not talking about just three games Im talking about the entire tourney and the prospects game. Jones shone and was a star. Mackinnon literally did nothing.

That IS significant.

It will be interesting if both teams make the Memorial Cup.
Well in the WJC, Nathan wasn't given the opportunity to do anything and a guy like Dano did get it.

Jones had a great tournament after a slow but steady start but I'm thinking most scouts didn't downgrade Nathan a heck of a lot based on the WJC.

It's part of the picture but a very small part.

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02-03-2013, 02:20 PM
  #123
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well i meant players playing in the US
Last I checked Portland was an American city.

NDTP kids like Compher are a bit underrated.

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02-03-2013, 02:42 PM
  #124
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Well in the WJC, Nathan wasn't given the opportunity to do anything and a guy like Dano did get it.

Jones had a great tournament after a slow but steady start but I'm thinking most scouts didn't downgrade Nathan a heck of a lot based on the WJC.

It's part of the picture but a very small part.
Of course they did. That's why he is #2 on most lists now.

Nathan didnt do anything with the opportunity he was given, which was much more than Shinkaruk, Lazar and others who didnt even make the team.

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02-04-2013, 02:39 PM
  #125
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Seems like you could've just watched the youtube posted earlier that had the actual show.

10 NHL scouts polled before the WJC, 7 scouts liked MacKinnon 1st and 3 scouts liked Jones 1st. After the WJC, 7 scouts liked Jones 1st and 3 scouts like MacKinnon 1st. So the WJC obviously is a factor...that should be pretty obvious I thought. Players rise and fall over the course of a season. If the draft happened in February instead of June then it would look completely different.

Even though the WJC is important...it definitely isn't everything to those who actually matter. I guess those who pick Jones over MacKinnon because the WJC would also not even consider Ryan Nugent Hopkins in the top 10 for 2011 because he was cut from Team Canada. Good thing the NHL scouts took the whole year into consideration I guess, huh? Prospects stocks will be inflated after the WJC but that doesn't mean it will stay that way.

And saying that Jones has a huge advantage over MacKinnon just isn't a good analysis IMO and the 10 NHL scouts McKenzie talked to agree with me.

Again, if you watched the video you'd see McKenzie say something like "7 to 3 in favor of Jones may look lopsided, but it's NOT, because EVERY scout goes to the point of saying hey there is a tiny difference between these two guys...it could be positional at the end...you need a defenseman, take Jones and you need a center, take MacKinnon".

So it must be that a couple of the HFBoards posters have it all figured out and have noticed a big difference between Jones and MacKinnon that he paid professional NHL scouts and most hockey fans have yet to see.

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