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Old
02-02-2013, 01:22 PM
  #551
Dampland
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If the fact that Suter is being obviously outplayed by a ROOKIE (Brodin) doesn't scare people, then I don't know what will.

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02-02-2013, 01:34 PM
  #552
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FVM View Post
- Boudreau's Ducks play the puck possession game. When it works like it did today it is beautiful to watch. I'm not ready to turn on Yeo yet but I do wonder why do the Wild have such a poor possession game? Tonight was a perfect example - just a dump after a dump after a dump. How about passing it between teammates for a change??
The Ducks' puck possession game is a lot more effective now that they have the effort to match. They were flying around last night, and that combination is tough to beat. In past years the Ducks were a lazy team, and that led to turnovers, little puck control, etc. That's different this year.

Why do the Wild not have a puck possession game? Coaching and personnel. Yeo's system is anti-puck control. Watch what happens when the Wild defensemen have the puck controlled in our own zone and look to move it up ice. You'll be lucky to see more than one Wild forward even in the same camera view. When the defensemen have the puck in their own zone, the forwards move up to the neutral zone, commonly past the first line of defending forwards. Then the defensemen usually throw the puck up ice along the boards, to get it around those forechecking forwards. If things go right, our forwards get a tip or something to create a legal entry into the offensive zone and try to go on the forecheck. But if things don't go right (commonly), we give the puck right back to the opponent. The system is not "pass it to me, I'll pass it to you". It's "oh crap I have to get rid of this puck before it's stolen from me". Sometimes you'll see the Wild pass their way through the neutral zone, but it's not common.

It's a boring, ugly, low-scoring system of hockey even when done right. It protects poorly-skilled defensemen since they don't have to be able to skate or handle the puck (Stoner, Prosser, Spurgeon, etc.). And conversely it neuters highly skilled defensemen as they can't rush the puck up ice on their own (Suter, Zidlicky, etc.). The forwards are a similar story. You can get by with slow, low-skilled players sometimes, but your highly skilled players aren't able to create things well either.

This type of system is easily hemmed in by a hard-working, big, skilled team like Anaheim, Detroit, or St. Louis. Supposedly Pittsburgh plays a similar way, and although I haven't looked closely enough to confirm, it seems interesting that both Yeo's Wild and Pittsburgh have been terrible at holding leads over the past few years. Anytime an opponent really amps up the effort level, this system has no answer. You simply cannot play reliable defense this way. You're always giving up the puck and consequently your own zone. Eventually bad things happens no matter how sound you are in your own zone. If this team had questionable goaltending, we'd be getting blown-out often.

But do we have the players to play a puck-possession game? No way. This roster is so slow that there's just no chance. We would need a roster blowup to fix it.

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Old
02-02-2013, 01:40 PM
  #553
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I'm not going to call for anyone's head after 8 games, but I am going to say the lack of physicality and zone time are truly disappointing. It looked like almost everyone was doing everything possible to avoid contact with any of the Ducks. If these players are afraid to hit or receive hits in the NHL then piss on em. The 4th line was physical last night and look what it led to. I do think Yeo recognized this last night afterwards and hopefully he makes the necessary adjustments. If he can't or the players can't change then it's going to be a very long 48 game season.

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02-02-2013, 01:43 PM
  #554
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The Suter hate is beyond hilarious. He had great games against Columbus and Chicago and a meh game last night and he's still a scapegoat for Dampland. It certainly hasn't been "8 straight games of not playing the most basic defense fundamentals".

Quote:
Suter is so bad defensively, I want to cry. ONCE AGAIN he was on the ice when the Ducks scored the go ahead goal, and it was 100% his fault, as he was totally out of position and thus left Brodin all alone to stop a 2 on 1.
That's not even true. The go ahead goal was scored when Gilbert and Stoner were on the ice.

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02-02-2013, 01:52 PM
  #555
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Originally Posted by tomgilbertfan View Post

That's not even true. The go ahead goal was scored when Gilbert and Stoner were on the ice.
He probably meant the tying goal, that was created when Koivu bobbled Brodin's pass and created a turnover in the neutral zone, completely cutting everyone off, but somehow it's Suter's fault

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02-02-2013, 01:56 PM
  #556
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Originally Posted by Dampland View Post
By the way, how much longer before we all realize that signing Suter is going to be the 2nd coming of the Gomez contract.

Suter is so bad defensively, I want to cry. ONCE AGAIN he was on the ice when the Ducks scored the go ahead goal, and it was 100% his fault, as he was totally out of position and thus left Brodin all alone to stop a 2 on 1.
Suter hasn't been nearly as bad as you make it sound like. No, I wouldn't pay him the money he gets now based on his performances so far, but then again, I never thought he was worth that much money. Suter will find his game, he's a good and experienced player. He'll figure it out.

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02-02-2013, 01:56 PM
  #557
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I'm not worried about Suter; he's been showing improvement and there's a huge adjustment. I'm not worried about Granlund for frankly the same reasons. In fact, I'm not really worried about any of our players.

I'm worried about our team. They're showing the same lazy, sloppy play that we've seen year-in and year-out, frankly, since Lemaires left. I'm starting to wonder if this is just a losing franchise where players come because they don't really give a ****. It doesn't matter how talented or talentless the roster is; it doesn't matter if it's Yeo or Richards: it's always the same ****. Hell we've seen the same play out of the $20M-first-line Wild as we got last year when we just had the Houston Aeros playing against NHL teams in St. Paul.

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02-02-2013, 01:57 PM
  #558
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Originally Posted by Dampland View Post
REALLY? The guy has been on the ice for 90% of the goals against, and for most of them, he was badly out of place. He's not covering guys in the slot, he is giving up 2 on 1's because he is out of place, etc. If I want to see that crappy D, then bring Zidlicky back, but we are talking about the"100 million dollar" D-man, and he's playing no better than Prosser is defensively. To me that is unacceptable.

BUt then again, I played defense, and was a Defensive defense man, so I have very little respect for the Paul Coffey, Cam Fowler style defense ..."Yeah I scored a goal and 2 assists tonight ....who cares that I was also -4 "
Clearly the Wild should have signed YOU instead! Another big mess up by GMCF

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02-02-2013, 02:12 PM
  #559
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dampland View Post
REALLY? The guy has been on the ice for 90% of the goals against, and for most of them, he was badly out of place. He's not covering guys in the slot, he is giving up 2 on 1's because he is out of place, etc. If I want to see that crappy D, then bring Zidlicky back, but we are talking about the"100 million dollar" D-man, and he's playing no better than Prosser is defensively. To me that is unacceptable.

BUt then again, I played defense, and was a Defensive defense man, so I have very little respect for the Paul Coffey, Cam Fowler style defense ..."Yeah I scored a goal and 2 assists tonight ....who cares that I was also -4 "
I also do not think Suter has been playing exactly stellar. His performance has been pretty bad with being on the ice for so many of our goals and out of position.

However, I do think people are being too quick to judge. Take Tom Gilbert for example; last year when he was aquired in a trade he was down right atrocious. Now that he has been in our system for a while, he has figured out exactly what he needs to be doing and this year already has 2 goals and 4 assists.

While Suter's play has been poor, I for one think (and hope) that he will turn it around and be the defender we spent that large amount of money on.

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Old
02-02-2013, 02:15 PM
  #560
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Originally Posted by Jaykay View Post
Clearly the Wild should have signed YOU instead! Another big mess up by GMCF
Show me where I said I could do better? I never said that, so stop trying to twist things around.

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Old
02-02-2013, 02:22 PM
  #561
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Originally Posted by vitogor View Post
He probably meant the tying goal, that was created when Koivu bobbled Brodin's pass and created a turnover in the neutral zone, completely cutting everyone off, but somehow it's Suter's fault
Perhaps I switched up the goals in my mind, but Suter CLEARLY was out of place on the goal described by Vitogor ...watch the replay...he left Brodin by himself for a 2 on 1.



We signed the supposedly best FA D-man to one of the largest contracts in history, a man who has EIGHT YEARS of experience, and you guys keep giving him a free pass.

8 games of ****** play by Suter is about 6 games too many. As I said before, if Suter was only struggling with our breakouts, or with our offensive zone play, I would (and HAVE) been cutting him slack. But his nearly complete lack of defensive play is what I cannot give him the "its only 8 games in a new system" get out of jail free card for.

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02-02-2013, 02:25 PM
  #562
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dampland View Post
REALLY? The guy has been on the ice for 90% of the goals against, and for most of them, he was badly out of place. He's not covering guys in the slot, he is giving up 2 on 1's because he is out of place, etc. If I want to see that crappy D, then bring Zidlicky back, but we are talking about the"100 million dollar" D-man, and he's playing no better than Prosser is defensively. To me that is unacceptable.

BUt then again, I played defense, and was a Defensive defense man, so I have very little respect for the Paul Coffey, Cam Fowler style defense ..."Yeah I scored a goal and 2 assists tonight ....who cares that I was also -4 "
Your post is ridiculous. All of them about Suter are. You ignore all of the great plays he's made. That's called cherry picking.

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02-02-2013, 02:27 PM
  #563
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Originally Posted by Dampland View Post
Perhaps I switched up the goals in my mind, but Suter CLEARLY was out of place on the goal described by Vitogor ...watch the replay...he left Brodin by himself for a 2 on 1.



We signed the supposedly best FA D-man to one of the largest contracts in history, a man who has EIGHT YEARS of experience, and you guys keep giving him a free pass.

8 games of ****** play by Suter is about 6 games too many. As I said before, if Suter was only struggling with our breakouts, or with our offensive zone play, I would (and HAVE) been cutting him slack. But his nearly complete lack of defensive play is what I cannot give him the "its only 8 games in a new system" get out of jail free card for.
Your choice.

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02-02-2013, 03:28 PM
  #564
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I was at the game last night.. A whole bunch of us Minnesotan's met up and were ready to rock the pond but then the Wild totally let us down... They were absolutely dominated out there... I know you guys know all this already but I just had to voice my disappointment because I don't get to see them out here too often and I was stoked to see our new revamped team and besides the first goal they didnt give us anything to cheer about...

On the brightside, because its the Ducks we got badass seats for only $30 a piece. haha


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02-02-2013, 04:45 PM
  #565
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Quote:
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I was at the game last night.. A whole bunch of us Minnesotan's met up and were ready to rock the pond but then the Wild totally let us down... They were absolutely dominated out there... I know you guys know all this already but I just had to voice my disappointment because I don't get to see them out here too often and I was stoked to see our new revamped team and besides the first goal they didnt give us anything to cheer about...

On the brightside, because its the Ducks we got badass seats for only $30 a piece. haha

I told my wife and son, next time in CA on business, go to a Ducks game. Plenty of seats. Of course, the Xcel would have been like that this year were it not for Parise and Suter. Recall that 3-4 STH's were sold very soon after the signings!

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Old
02-02-2013, 07:03 PM
  #566
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That ice is terrible. Gopher remembers the photo I took last year

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02-02-2013, 08:53 PM
  #567
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I don't really disagree with this...

Quote:
Originally Posted by State of Hockey View Post
The Ducks' puck possession game is a lot more effective now that they have the effort to match. They were flying around last night, and that combination is tough to beat. In past years the Ducks were a lazy team, and that led to turnovers, little puck control, etc. That's different this year.

Why do the Wild not have a puck possession game? Coaching and personnel. Yeo's system is anti-puck control. Watch what happens when the Wild defensemen have the puck controlled in our own zone and look to move it up ice. You'll be lucky to see more than one Wild forward even in the same camera view. When the defensemen have the puck in their own zone, the forwards move up to the neutral zone, commonly past the first line of defending forwards. Then the defensemen usually throw the puck up ice along the boards, to get it around those forechecking forwards. If things go right, our forwards get a tip or something to create a legal entry into the offensive zone and try to go on the forecheck. But if things don't go right (commonly), we give the puck right back to the opponent. The system is not "pass it to me, I'll pass it to you". It's "oh crap I have to get rid of this puck before it's stolen from me". Sometimes you'll see the Wild pass their way through the neutral zone, but it's not common.

It's a boring, ugly, low-scoring system of hockey even when done right. It protects poorly-skilled defensemen since they don't have to be able to skate or handle the puck (Stoner, Prosser, Spurgeon, etc.). And conversely it neuters highly skilled defensemen as they can't rush the puck up ice on their own (Suter, Zidlicky, etc.). The forwards are a similar story. You can get by with slow, low-skilled players sometimes, but your highly skilled players aren't able to create things well either.

This type of system is easily hemmed in by a hard-working, big, skilled team like Anaheim, Detroit, or St. Louis. Supposedly Pittsburgh plays a similar way, and although I haven't looked closely enough to confirm, it seems interesting that both Yeo's Wild and Pittsburgh have been terrible at holding leads over the past few years. Anytime an opponent really amps up the effort level, this system has no answer. You simply cannot play reliable defense this way. You're always giving up the puck and consequently your own zone. Eventually bad things happens no matter how sound you are in your own zone. If this team had questionable goaltending, we'd be getting blown-out often.

But do we have the players to play a puck-possession game? No way. This roster is so slow that there's just no chance. We would need a roster blowup to fix it.
Even if the Wild had shown up mentally and emotionally to play last night I still think they would've had problems with Anaheim's superior team speed. Speed is certainly an issue for this team defensively and offensively; the lack of it that is.

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02-02-2013, 08:55 PM
  #568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by se7en View Post
I was at the game last night.. A whole bunch of us Minnesotan's met up and were ready to rock the pond but then the Wild totally let us down... They were absolutely dominated out there... I know you guys know all this already but I just had to voice my disappointment because I don't get to see them out here too often and I was stoked to see our new revamped team and besides the first goal they didnt give us anything to cheer about...

On the brightside, because its the Ducks we got badass seats for only $30 a piece. haha

Were you the guy with a Wild Green jersey? If so they may have shown you on TV during the broadcast. Looked like lots of empty seats in the lower bowl.

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Old
02-02-2013, 09:24 PM
  #569
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Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
I'm not worried about Suter; he's been showing improvement and there's a huge adjustment. I'm not worried about Granlund for frankly the same reasons. In fact, I'm not really worried about any of our players.

I'm worried about our team. They're showing the same lazy, sloppy play that we've seen year-in and year-out, frankly, since Lemaires left. I'm starting to wonder if this is just a losing franchise where players come because they don't really give a ****. It doesn't matter how talented or talentless the roster is; it doesn't matter if it's Yeo or Richards: it's always the same ****. Hell we've seen the same play out of the $20M-first-line Wild as we got last year when we just had the Houston Aeros playing against NHL teams in St. Paul.
I have had these thoughts on more than one occasion. Just play half assed and collect your paycheck and go home. The question is who do you blame for something like that. Is it the coach, captain, or the players themselves I don't know.

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02-02-2013, 09:58 PM
  #570
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Originally Posted by Northland Wild Man View Post
I have had these thoughts on more than one occasion. Just play half assed and collect your paycheck and go home. The question is who do you blame for something like that. Is it the coach, captain, or the players themselves I don't know.
Considering the huge variety of players who've struggled here in the same way, I don't think it's a players issue. It's almost more of a culture issue that needs to be addressed. There's a part of me that wonders what would happen if you could teleport the same coaches and players to the Habs; do you really think anyone in that franchise, media market, or fanbase would accept this kind of laziness or mediocrity? It'd be disrespecting the legendary jersey. But who really gives a **** if the Wild lose? They're just some expansion team.

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02-02-2013, 10:55 PM
  #571
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Originally Posted by llamapalooza View Post
Considering the huge variety of players who've struggled here in the same way, I don't think it's a players issue. It's almost more of a culture issue that needs to be addressed. There's a part of me that wonders what would happen if you could teleport the same coaches and players to the Habs; do you really think anyone in that franchise, media market, or fanbase would accept this kind of laziness or mediocrity? It'd be disrespecting the legendary jersey. But who really gives a **** if the Wild lose? They're just some expansion team.
Maybe the whole thing should be made into a statewide issue. I don't know if it would make a difference, but saying something like "It's a disgrace to Minnesota the way they played tonight" might hold more weight than other criticisms. This might bring about some change. I sure don't feel like waiting until the team is as old as the Canadiens before I see a Stanley Cup in Minnesota.

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02-03-2013, 02:53 AM
  #572
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This organization is absolutely pathetic. Different players, same team. Same development program in the AHL. This mess is partly on the fans. Russo can't do it all. There is no responsibility. It's always just excuses. Koivu needs to lose the captaincy immediately. He's been captain for 3 years now and the same team continues to show up each year. Go back to the rotating captain. Hell, just remove it all together. I kind of feel sorry for Parise and Suter because what they are witnessing with this organization is what the fans have been watching for years. Just a bunch of individuals on ice with no direction and no passion for the game. Fletcher can only do so much. Yeo can only do so much. But these are grown ass players. They need to own up to their pathetic play.

Don't get me started on Granlund. He needs to be moved to wing immediately and demoted to third or fourth line. How the hell can someone dominate a professional league like he did and come over here and completely flop? After having some time in the AHL? Ugh. I don't even want to begin. Bulmer, Phillips, Hackett...hell even Coyle...

If they don't come out for Phoenix and completely dominate the Coyotes, this organization is in worse shape than we expected.

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02-03-2013, 09:52 AM
  #573
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Originally Posted by the8bandarmadillo View Post
This organization is absolutely pathetic. Different players, same team. Same development program in the AHL. This mess is partly on the fans. Russo can't do it all. There is no responsibility. It's always just excuses. Koivu needs to lose the captaincy immediately. He's been captain for 3 years now and the same team continues to show up each year. Go back to the rotating captain. Hell, just remove it all together. I kind of feel sorry for Parise and Suter because what they are witnessing with this organization is what the fans have been watching for years. Just a bunch of individuals on ice with no direction and no passion for the game. Fletcher can only do so much. Yeo can only do so much. But these are grown ass players. They need to own up to their pathetic play.

Don't get me started on Granlund. He needs to be moved to wing immediately and demoted to third or fourth line. How the hell can someone dominate a professional league like he did and come over here and completely flop? After having some time in the AHL? Ugh. I don't even want to begin. Bulmer, Phillips, Hackett...hell even Coyle...

If they don't come out for Phoenix and completely dominate the Coyotes, this organization is in worse shape than we expected.
There are a lot of decent and good teams that are stuggling right now. With this funky season, many teams will not reach the level they normally would.

Hell, the Flyers are 2-6-1 and need help scoring!

It's not just the Wild. The sky has not fallen, and our team will win more games.

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02-03-2013, 09:54 AM
  #574
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It's only one game guys.

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02-03-2013, 10:15 AM
  #575
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I'm sad because I noticed we're tied with Edmonton in points and GF.

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