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Old
02-02-2013, 03:26 PM
  #101
Darth Vitale
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
Lest this thread become all sunshine and rainbows:

Puck support on the breakout is still iffy. I don't even care if the stretch pass is the first thing the d looks for on the breakout. I do care if they have a "check down" 8 foot pass if the stretch isn't there. I think the Pens would be better served with tight puck support from the near side winger, have the far side wing fly the zone, and relying on the centres to read how things are playing out.

Secondary scoring is also a concern. The only goal that Crosby or Malkin didn't factor in on was the absolute gift Kunitz got. Sid and Geno are great, but they miss the scoring from Jordan Staal and Steve Sullivan.

I for one am far from at ease with the way this team plays. Our PP still sucks for one thing...

But overall the pattern seems to be: the emotional energy is there for big rivals (usually NY, NJ, PHI, WSH), and if we get a decent lead, we often close it out. Things open up for us quite a bit when we get a 2-3 goal lead, and that's where Bylsma's system has the most success.

But when we play a mediocre / non-rival team, the same energy is not there and as often results, if the game is close or if we're down... it's tough for us to come back / put teams away with our "get it deep and hope we gain control" style of play. It's too predictable (and also too random in terms of maintaining puck control); teams just sit back and wait for it. The only way it works is when the other team has to play less conservatively to catch up (example: over-pursues on the forecheck, leaving themselves exposed to our long transition passes when we break up their entry or cycle).

The problem is ultimately that teams play us tighter in the playoffs and with more speed and energy, and so what might produce a decent record in the regular season, fails us in the playoffs. If they don't have multiple looks practiced and ready for the playoffs (especially PP), we're 1 and out again IMO.

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02-02-2013, 03:27 PM
  #102
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So how'd we look? I was at work til 2:30 and caught the 3rd period on the radio.

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02-02-2013, 03:29 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post

1. Agreed on Boychuk, which is why I see him as more likely to make TK expendable than anything else.

2. That Despres went toe to toe with Clarkson like that is what had me stoked.
Ya I liked seeing some grittiness. I just like DJ there because he can dish the puck and Neal and Malkin are gunners. If Boychuk shows more offensive flair, I might almost care.

Despres just needs to do exactly what he is doing and not make his typical once a game boneheaded mistakes.

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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
What have you thought of Engo's play this year?

Nisky comes back, and either Engo or Bort sits. Bort in another half dozen or so games will be at another level still, but I don't think it will matter.
He was steady in the first couple of games, off the hinge for a couple, now Bort and he seem to be looking solid. Just a couple of games so...

I'm on record as saying Nisky gets moved.

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02-02-2013, 03:29 PM
  #104
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Boychuk showed some promise. Excited to see how he does over the course of this week.

I'd really like Shero to find a long term winger for Sid and I really hope Despres is not part of what we pay to get it. I love our bottom 6 and I love what our D is doing (8th in shots against and 6th in goals against, so far). Find one more good winger for the top 6, let the lines develop chemistry and we have ourselves a great hockey team. It'd be nice if that winger helped stabilize the PP as well.

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02-02-2013, 03:29 PM
  #105
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Bort and Engo being capable of fighting is cool. But does anyone really want d-men getting into fights with any regularity?

Also, I really like this defense. I like Niskanen, but I think he's the piece I would most like to trade away.

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02-02-2013, 03:30 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by End of Line View Post
So how'd we look? I was at work til 2:30 and caught the 3rd period on the radio.
Mostly good. Best signs of the day were that Despres and Bortuzzo looked good out there and that the old Sid was back in action finally. PP still blew.

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02-02-2013, 03:30 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I for one am far from at ease with the way this team plays. Our PP still sucks for one thing...

But overall the pattern seems to be: the emotional energy is there for big rivals (usually NY, NJ, PHI, WSH), and if we get a decent lead, we often close it out. Things open up for us quite a bit when we get a 2-3 goal lead, and that's where Bylsma's system has the most success.

But when we play a mediocre / non-rival team, the same energy is not there and as often results, if the game is close or if we're down... it's tough for us to come back / put teams away with our "get it deep and hope we gain control" style of play. It's too predictable (and also too random in terms of maintaining puck control); teams just sit back and wait for it. The only way it works is when the other team has to play less conservatively to catch up (example: over-pursues on the forecheck, leaving themselves exposed to our long transition passes when we break up their entry or cycle).

The problem is ultimately that teams play us tighter in the playoffs and with more speed and energy, and so what might produce a decent record in the regular season, fails us in the playoffs. If they don't have multiple looks practiced and ready for the playoffs (especially PP), we're 1 and out again IMO.
But, but, but, we won today, and Sid going god mode (like Geno before at times or Flower standing on his head to steal one at times) really should do nothing to make you wonder if we're talking about a real or false sense of security here.

As I said, I told RRP before the NYI game let's see at the 15 game mark. I even voted it after. 7 games to go. We'll see if it's a roller coaster or a series of improvements . . . personally, I'm voting that certain players will go god mode enough to create the usual false sense of security for the playoffs. Eh, we'll see. I feel better about where the Pens are, but not good.

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02-02-2013, 03:31 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by SprootsMasterFlex View Post
I concur with what you said about Boychuk.
The majority of pens fans that posted today couldn't disagree with you more.
Do you really watch the games?

Jeffery and Tangradi are bottom 6 players AT BEST on this team. DEAL WITH IT

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02-02-2013, 03:32 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by MonsterSurge View Post
He went with Mirasty in his rookie season and went toe-to-toe with Lessard.
Mirasty gave him a beat down though.

He will stick up for his team and doesn't hesitate to throw down, but I don't think he will intimidate people like Engo.

Bort is just an all around asset.

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02-02-2013, 03:32 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Ya I liked seeing some grittiness. I just like DJ there because he can dish the puck and Neal and Malkin are gunners. If Boychuk shows more offensive flair, I might almost care.

Despres just needs to do exactly what he is doing and not make his typical once a game boneheaded mistakes.



He was steady in the first couple of games, off the hinge for a couple, now Bort and he seem to be looking solid. Just a couple of games so...

I'm on record as saying Nisky gets moved.
I can see that. The question is: What's his value? What type of deal?

EDIT: Here's what Boychuk does. He let's you ask 'Value of Kennedy + Niskanen' in the trade forum.

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02-02-2013, 03:34 PM
  #111
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Great overall game. Loved the way that Boychuk stepped in, especially on the one the one break with malkin where he made the decision to shot and not force the puck to Geno.

Loved the patience that they showed in not falling asleep in a typical Devils start to the game.

Good to the first goals for Sutter and Bort.

Hope all the good feelings carry over to tomorrow.

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02-02-2013, 03:34 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
I can see that. The question is: What's his value? What type of deal?
this is what I'm wondering too. Like I said above, he's the roster D I'd most like to move to bring in a forward. But I have no idea what kind of player he can bring back. He's certainly no Whitney or Goose. To get the type of forward we need, it's going to need to be Niskanen +

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02-02-2013, 03:34 PM
  #113
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I really like the size Bort brings to the bottom 2. Engellend-Bortuzzo is a tough pairing. It would be nice to get Bortuzzo some good experience because I could see him being useful in the playoffs.

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02-02-2013, 03:35 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
this is what I'm wondering too. Like I said above, he's the roster D I'd most like to move to bring in a forward. But I have no idea what kind of player he can bring back. He's certainly no Whitney or Goose.
Actually, I just edited above.

Value of Kennedy + Niskanen?

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02-02-2013, 03:36 PM
  #115
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
I for one am far from at ease with the way this team plays. Our PP still sucks for one thing...

But overall the pattern seems to be: the emotional energy is there for big rivals (usually NY, NJ, PHI, WSH), and if we get a decent lead, we often close it out. Things open up for us quite a bit when we get a 2-3 goal lead, and that's where Bylsma's system has the most success.

But when we play a mediocre / non-rival team, the same energy is not there and as often results, if the game is close or if we're down... it's tough for us to come back / put teams away with our "get it deep and hope we gain control" style of play. It's too predictable (and also too random in terms of maintaining puck control); teams just sit back and wait for it. The only way it works is when the other team has to play less conservatively to catch up (example: over-pursues on the forecheck, leaving themselves exposed to our long transition passes when we break up their entry or cycle).

The problem is ultimately that teams play us tighter in the playoffs and with more speed and energy, and so what might produce a decent record in the regular season, fails us in the playoffs. If they don't have multiple looks practiced and ready for the playoffs (especially PP), we're 1 and out again IMO.
Lots to agree with here. The only personal question is a winger for Sid/the powerplay. I'm more than happy to run with Fleury/Vokoun and the defense already in the organization.

Systematically, I'm less confident.

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02-02-2013, 03:36 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by KIRK View Post
Um, o'k . . .

EDIT: I'll put it this way . . . at 5 on 5, people on the ice see the puck from Geno and Neal more than Geno and Neal see it from Sid and Tanger on the PP.
Comparing them to a PP unit that does nothing but force plays isn't exactly a solid unit of measurement. They prefer finding each other more than letting the play happen naturally and it's frustrating to watch at times. Sure, their third wheels have probably been frustrating this season for them to play with but anyone can see that they have a little tunnel vision when it comes to finding each other.

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02-02-2013, 03:36 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Medic412 View Post
The majority of pens fans that posted today couldn't disagree with you more.
Do you really watch the games?

Jeffery and Tangradi are bottom 6 players AT BEST on this team. DEAL WITH IT
Settle down playboy.

Boychuk didn't show anything out there that should have anyone excited unless they are looking at him as a third liner.

It's early, so he has time to show he has the offensive IQ to hang in the top six. However, I didn't see it.

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02-02-2013, 03:37 PM
  #118
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Boychuk showed some promise. Excited to see how he does over the course of this week.

I'd really like Shero to find a long term winger for Sid and I really hope Despres is not part of what we pay to get it. I love our bottom 6 and I love what our D is doing (8th in shots against and 6th in goals against, so far). Find one more good winger for the top 6, let the lines develop chemistry and we have ourselves a great hockey team. It'd be nice if that winger helped stabilize the PP as well.
I agree. Despres shouldn't be used as trade bait to get the winger. We need more like him on our D.

I foresee a team with a lot of depth on their wings thats playing flat consider Kennedy as someone who can provide them with a lot of energy and some goals from their 3rd line in exchange for one of their offensively talented wingers that's struggling a little bit and would benefit from a change of scenery. Perhaps not 1 or 1 but if we take on a little salary and add just a little bit, it can happen.

I may sound like a broken record but Minnesota is a perfect example with Setoguchi. Stewart was a good example with STL before his big turnaround this season. Seto is our best option right now and Yeo/Fletcher know what we have to offer for him.

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02-02-2013, 03:37 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Chancellor Vitale View Post
Mostly good. Best signs of the day were that Despres and Bortuzzo looked good out there and that the old Sid was back in action finally. PP still blew.
Thanks.

Sounds good, except the PP which is to be expected.

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02-02-2013, 03:38 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by Sorry View Post
Comparing them to a PP unit that does nothing but force plays isn't exactly a solid unit of measurement. They prefer finding each other more than letting the play happen naturally and it's frustrating to watch at times. Sure, their third wheels have probably been frustrating this season for them to play with but anyone can see that they have a little tunnel vision when it comes to finding each other.
Malkin and Neal have tunnel vision locating each other?

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02-02-2013, 03:38 PM
  #121
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Originally Posted by Sideline View Post
Lots to agree with here. The only personal question is a winger for Sid/the powerplay. I'm more than happy to run with Fleury/Vokoun and the defense already in the organization.

Systematically, I'm less confident.
Why? We won today.

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02-02-2013, 03:39 PM
  #122
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Bort and Engo being capable of fighting is cool. But does anyone really want d-men getting into fights with any regularity?

Also, I really like this defense. I like Niskanen, but I think he's the piece I would most like to trade away.
I relate Niskanen to the days of the Scud missle Scuderi, he's not going to do any thing flashy, but he's solid defensively and would be missed if moved.

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02-02-2013, 03:39 PM
  #123
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Originally Posted by Mr Jiggyfly View Post
Settle down playboy.

Boychuk didn't show anything out there that should have anyone excited unless they are looking at him as a third liner.

It's early, so he has time to show he has the offensive IQ to hang in the top six. However, I didn't see it.
Since you mentioned 3rd liner, wouldn't Zach and Sutter being roomates and friends be an extra plus for that scenario? Perhaps they have chemistry together... but I assume that Carolina would've tried that already...

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02-02-2013, 03:39 PM
  #124
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+ Boychuk - Crosby - Iginla -line
+ Kunitz - Geno - Neal -line
+ Cooke - Sutter - Dupuis -line

- Shero not to make this happen.. (yet)

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Old
02-02-2013, 03:39 PM
  #125
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Actually, I just edited above.

Value of Kennedy + Niskanen?
I still have no clue what that gets you. Do people want TK?

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